White males...

[Hiroki]

You might like to think that it doesn't make a differance today, but among many it does. There are many raceists and bigots out there, of all races. And thinking its all going to go away, in my opinion is over-optomistic and foolhardy. No offince or anything of course. I just don't beleave people will ever put aside there hatred.

[El Sitherino]

Originally posted by Hiroki

Yeah, maybe the last few posts where immature...when did this even become about indians and there land? I haven't even seen an American Indian in an office.

 

Look. There a more of us here, whites that is. We are the majority. But that doesn't mean, simply becouse there are more of us, that the minoritys need an advantige. More of us, means more mouths to feed, correct? Besides, what happens when the minoritys become the majority?

uhhhh... when it's a minority they have a handicap, yes they need more of an advantage because there are less of them. I chop off your arm, now you need more of an advantage over me since I have 2 and you only have 1.

 

And when they become the majority, they are no longer a minority

[rccar328]

You are BORN the race that you are. You can not help that. Now you can claim you are born gay, but...well, its just a claim, non the less. You can't compare it.

 

Ditto.

 

If it is ever scientifically proven that homosexuality is genetic, I'll have to seriously reconsider my stance.

[Kain]

But the heart wants what the heart wants, its as simple as that. It MAY NOT be genetic to be homosexual, but somethings you see before puberty may sway your sexual prefernce one way or the other, and THAT is proven.

 

Obviously being raped by a Catholic priest as a young boy will probably make you shun the same sex sexually. [One insulting sentance deleted]?

 

 

*** Let's try to avoid ad hominem remarks please. -- SkinWalker

[ET Warrior]

Originally posted by Hiroki

Well, we DID defete the American Indians in a war. And as far as I know, winning a war gives you the right to invade and take over.

 

What the...who the......are you joking? I'm going to equate this with saying if Germany would have won WWII then Hitler would have been in the right.

 

 

The problem most people have with affirmative action and the like, is we look at it and say, HEY! I didn't enslave their ancestors, it's not MY fault they're poverty stricken, why must I pay for it?

 

Well we have to do SOMETHING to right the wrongs of our past. Just ignoring them and pretending everything is okay now sure as hell isn't going to do it.

[rccar328]

Deleted one insulting sentance.?

I don't see how a stupid, baseless insult like this is appropriate in any way, or applicable to this debate.

[Kain]

It wasn't so much an insult as a statement. My humblest apologies if you, or if anyone else, was offended.

 

(Not trying to get myself out any trouble I'm in here, but I just worked 10 hours before posting that so my mind isn't exactly in a 'try not to offend people' mode)

[ET Warrior]

Originally posted by Hiroki

You are BORN the race that you are. You can not help that. Now you can claim you are born gay, but...well, its just a claim, non the less. You can't compare it.

 

Okay, so lets say you CHOOSE to be gay. I don't believe it, but we'll just pretend. You CHOOSE to be anti-homosexual, should everyone shun you because of your decision? Some people choose to be vegetarians, are they in the wrong? Our lives are defined by our choices. Why is their choice the wrong one?

[Hiroki]

When somebody gets aids from eating a carrot, then I'll be againts vegetarians... *cough* About the war thing. Well, I wouldn't say Hittler would be right, as in good. But he would have won it, and it would be his. If we won it back one day, then it would be ours again.

 

I'm not saying that winning the Indians land in war was the right, or noble thing to do, it wasen't, but we did win it, and it is ours.

[Kain]

So you're against gays(I'm talking to Hiroki) because of the AIDS virus? I suppose thats a good reason. Of course, it isn't the gay people's fault, its actually the BI-sexual peoples fault. And since EVERYONE back then (the '70's) was a swinger, its the swingers faults too. If 2 gay guys(or gals) wanna get married, good on them. You would think that Christian's(what with their anti-gay mindsets) would be happy to watch AIDs jump from homosexual to homosexual and watch the entire mess of em die off in an agonizing manner(well, maybe not ALL Christians, but fundamentalists for sure). Way to love your fellow man.

 

OMG, this is turning into the gay marriage issue here...SkinWalker, methinks its time to merge the 2?

[Ray Jones]

Originally posted by Hiroki

When somebody gets aids from eating a carrot, then I'll be againts vegetarians... *cough* About the war thing. Well, I wouldn't say Hittler would be right, as in good. But he would have won it, and it would be his. If we won it back one day, then it would be ours again.

 

I'm not saying that winning the Indians land in war was the right, or noble thing to do, it wasen't, but we did win it, and it is ours.

 

but you do realize that the earth is not "human property"?

[Hiroki]

Well, do you know any animal that can stand up to man? We're getting to a point where we'll even be imune to natures greatest affects. When that happens, it will be mans property. You arn't going tell me now, that non-sentiant animals have just as much right to call the planet 'theres' as we do, are you? They're food, or sport for us. Becouse we where made to be superior. If thats by God, or Nature, it doesn't matter. We're here now.

 

Edit: I was speaking of the entire human race, as in every color or nation. Not just whites or anything like that.

[Ray Jones]

Originally posted by Hiroki

Well, do you know any animal that can stand up to man? We're getting to a point where we'll even be imune to natures greatest affects.

 

we may dont even KNOW of natures "greatest effects" (whatever that is.)

i mean we are here on earth, a very small planet somewhere in a universe and so on. we are NOTHING but part of life. an animal that can stand up to man? hmm. with or without "technical equipment"? you know that we cannot fly or breathe under water. we arent as fast and strong as other animals. we cannot see so fast and sharp or in the dark as other animals. we cannot hear as good as animals. you know that without microorganisms we would not be able to live one day? the only thing that makes us different is our more powerful brain. that is the only reason WHY we are able to do things without that our body is able to it "himself".

 

 

When that happens, it will be mans property. You arn't going tell me now, that non-sentiant animals have just as much right to call the planet 'theres' as we do, are you? They're food, or sport for us.

 

i have to disagree. without animal we would hardly exist. also microorganisms inhabit our whole body. do they OWN our bodies therefore?

 

we may be on top of the food chain, but that does not mean we own anything.

 

we may have been the best in surviving from a certain point of view, but it's never sure we will not fail one day.

 

Becouse we where made to be superior. If thats by God, or Nature, it doesn't matter. We're here now.

 

made superior? we arent "made" and superior, we are weak and vulnerable. we are able to fly to space but also can be easily killed by a small bacterium. or simply by radiation in space.

 

 

[edit]

 

of course, it is "our" earth, seen from the point that we live on it. but from this point it is also the earth of all lifeforms on it and of all future lifeforms.

(and of course of all past lifeforms.)

 

also, if some superior alien species would come here, and claim the earth to be theirs, would you agree?

[Hiroki]

Yes, we are weak without our tech. But it is OUR tech. And it was made with our brain, wich is a part of us. You know its funny, when an animal does something, it is considered an act of nature. If it destroys whole crops with infestation, its an act of nature, but if WE do anything with our oh so demonic tech, its a crime againts nature... -_-;

 

Tech is part of nature becouse it was made by us useing the brain that nature gave us. It may not be the standered type of nature that you are use to seeing, but that doesn't really make it any differant. Arn't humans just smart animals after all? Why should we recieve a guilt trip when we destroy some natural land formation? I'm sure other animals have soiled and destroyed there fiar share before.

 

Its our planet becouse nothing can stop us from takeing it right now, if they could, then it wouldn't be ours. Yes, we can't live without animals. Thats why they're still here probably. We've come an awful long way from the hunter/forager we once where. However, even then, we used tech. A spear is a invention of man, isn't it?

 

If some

 

Also, if some alien race that was so much more powerful than us ( Its not gonna happen anyway, since lightspeed can't be reached, much less exeeded. ) came and whiped us out, and claimed the planet as there own, then it would be theres. Fair and squaire, yes.

[Ray Jones]

Originally posted by Hiroki

Yes, we are weak without our tech. But it is OUR tech. And it was made with our brain, wich is a part of us. You know its funny, when an animal does something, it is considered an act of nature. If it destroys whole crops with infestation, its an act of nature, but if WE do anything with our oh so demonic tech, its a crime againts nature... -_-;

 

i wasnt talking against "demonic" technologies, i just wanted to point out, that, as you've stated, we are "nothing" without our technologies, except that we have the ability to invent those we need (and want?). but there are animals (primates) with the same ability, and therefore there's nothing very special about us.

 

in fact our "crimes" against nature are after all just another "happenings" in the chain of events of life.

 

Tech is part of nature becouse it was made by us useing the brain that nature gave us. It may not be the standered type of nature that you are use to seeing, but that doesn't really make it any differant. Arn't humans just smart animals after all? Why should we recieve a guilt trip when we destroy some natural land formation? I'm sure other animals have soiled and destroyed there fiar share before.

 

i dont have much different views here. i'd only like to point out that animals do such things for surviving. we as "clever animals" have also other reasons for doing such things. because it's our human nature to find such other, non-survival reasons it still can be considered as natural behaviour, but that doesnt necessarily means i support them.

also one never could prove if, whatever species we "let die out", it wouldnt had died out sooner or later, anyways.

but we must not provoke such things, nor should we ignore the fact that nature is still our living room and that we still are depended to nature, for instance to the rain forrest, or plants in general, because they produce the oxygene we breathe. of course, we are up to the point where we basically know how to get independend from that, but we're far from "replacing" plants through a technic or "machine".

 

Its our planet becouse nothing can stop us from takeing it right now, if they could, then it wouldn't be ours. Yes, we can't live without animals. Thats why they're still here probably. We've come an awful long way from the hunter/forager we once where. However, even then, we used tech. A spear is a invention of man, isn't it?

 

it is, sure, and we dont know where we will "go" someday and what we will invent.

 

no technology is bad, only its certain appliance could be considered so.

 

Also, if some alien race that was so much more powerful than us ( Its not gonna happen anyway, since lightspeed can't be reached, much less exeeded. ) came and whiped us out, and claimed the planet as there own, then it would be theres. Fair and squaire, yes.

 

we would have no choice anyway, assuming a MUCH higher level of technology. also traveling space is not dependend to LIGHTSPEED.

 

a thought: we humans are traveling through space, too. and we're using this big spaceship "earth" for it. (and the time on earth is DEFINITLY limited!)

[Hiroki]

Here's a thought for you. Many species have lived for well over a million years, and not changed at all. But, what about us? In a million years I imagen we will have changed dramaticly.

[SkinWalker]

Just to be clear, the Indians weren't involved in a war with the European invaders. They were simply trying to survive, physically and culturally. There were punctuated instances in which they had had enough and revolted, but by-and-large the Indian reacted passively to the white-man.

 

The white-man, on the other hand, committed wholesale genocide and engaged in ethnic cleansing in his attempt to conquer the continent.

 

Hiroki speaks of man being the dominant species and being "in charge," and he's probably right. But with that position comes great responsibility. For the Earth will never belong to us but we will forever belong to the Earth. We are made of the molecules and elements of the planet and when we die those molecules and elements return to get used again... matter can neither be created nor destroyed.

 

Man's greatest enemy is man.

[Ray Jones]

how "much" a species changes depends to the changes of the environment, which can come a) through the change of the environment itself or b) by changing location to "another" environment.

there are not so many "global" species on this planet, but we are "global" and fitted ourselfs into most of the niches life offers.

 

also, the more "complex" a species is (or becomes?) or its genetic code the more possibilities are there for changes and variations.

 

and how we can be sure if some million years before us there wasnt another species changing in such a "dramatical" speed. or do you know how long it took until the first "animal" became wings and flew up? or how long it took from the "first scorpion" to those with a tail and stinger?

 

and in a million years there will be perhabs none of us anymore. maybe chimps have made their way then, or their is no longer any form of "higher intelligence".

or we are far beyond the point of now, and "left" earth as species and started to "spread (life) into space" and this would be a must if we want to live "longer" than earth.

 

[edit]

 

err.. and what skinwalker said.

[Kain]

Y'know, classifying humans as animals or even mammals for that matter isn't really true. Agent Smith said it best in the original Matrix. Humans are more like parasites of the planet, especially the white man. Native Americans were probably the only species of human to realize this and not fall into the parasite catagory.

[ET Warrior]

Originally posted by rccar328

If it is ever scientifically proven that homosexuality is genetic, I'll have to seriously reconsider my stance.

 

Can you say......Ironic?

[obi]

Woa there Hiroki, we may have had some agreements in the past, but that comment about Kain being a non-white homosexual was very inappropriate. Flaming is not tolerated on these boards.

 

Please, refrain from doing so furthermore.

 

** I second that... in fact, so does the Senate Singularity. -- SkinWalker

[Hiroki]

Heh heh, told you I'd get heat for it. Actually I figured I'd recieve heat for the other thing I said...not that. Whats so bad about that? Its a commen fact that if you started a thread insulting fat guys, mostly fat guys would come to there defence...

 

Edit: Oh yeah, my concience just hit me in the head. So I'm sorry if I offended anybody with comment.

[Kain]

It was just an assumption on his part, obi, that I called him out on.

 

And the reason that maybe the age difference between gays in your situation is 'a bit worse', as you so elegantly put it, is because you're against gays as it is.

 

But this isn't a debate about homosexuals. Its about how the white man is being put down by other races after doing it for the past 600+ years.

[Hiroki]

True, true. Back on topic. Anyhow, what I'm trying to say is that even if we did do it for 600+ years, and we did, why does that give them the right to do it to us? To quote the Bible on one of the more sensable and wise of its sayings in it, two wrongs do not make a right.

 

Just becouse we wronged the other races with bigotry doesn't make them right for doing the same. Only when everybody stops doing it, and bands together as one race, will we be able to extract the full potential of humanity.

[ET Warrior]

I know my post already addressed this....we must make up for the mistakes of our past, right the past wrongs and whatnot. Look back on page 1, i had a post about it.