Why this won't be the 'Ultimate SW Experience' y'all want...

[Schetter]

There seems to be a lot of hype and a lot of buzz surrounding this game already, and it's still 4 months from being released. This is good, for obvious reasons, sure - but it's also potentially harmful. SW:Galaxies got hyped big time, and not all of it was initiated by LucasArts - much of it was fan-based hype and frenzied discussion. Problem is that the speculation and the discussion and the 'what if' scenarios turn start turning from speculation into actual expectations. End result: big letdown at the release. The SW:G community worked itself into such a frenzy that when the game didn't meet all the lofty speculations turned expectations, a lot of people got turned off right away.

 

I see the same sort of thing happening already here. Discussions about extra features outside of what has already been exhibited, speculations on 'mission objectives' for maps, and even on LAG in the game have already appeared. More new, useless discussions on trivial topics get started each week, and most of them end up like, "and so they should definately add that because that would be sweet" in reference to some fantasy scenario they dreamed up during their lunch hour. Y'all need to chill or else the majority of you chatting up a storm here are going to be greatly disappointed with the finished product simply because the game can't possibly match up to the fantastic model that you're creating inside your head.

 

Anyway, this brings me to the intended topic of this post: why SW:BF won't be the 'ultimate' Star Wars game, combining elements from all aspects of the SW universe - space and ground together. The answer is a simple and obvious one: money. Say LucasArts actually did produce the definitive Star Wars game - a game that no other SW title could match up to? Everyone interested would shell out their $50 and that would be it. Why buy another SW title when you already own the best? If LucasArts produced a game sooooo good (like some of you are suggesting with all the features that you practically expect to see in the game) that they didn't need to produce any more SW titles for the next...say...two years until they might have to update the graphics engine or something, there probably wouldn't be much of a LucasArts left to produce it.

 

It's similar to a car company. The technology exists to make cars much better than they exist today at a much cheaper cost - but if they made an affordable car that never needed to be replaced, then the company would go out of business. Thus they need to hold back on what they make available and leak it out bit by bit in order to secure their own longevity as a business.

 

LucasArts is doing the same. They'll be producing a good game based on a game design that has already been tested and proven successful (BF:42) - but nothing more - just a game good enough to quench your thirst and keep you hooked and waiting for the next title. And that's why we'll never see what many of you would think of as the 'ultimate SW title' - because doing so would be economic suicide for LucasArts.

[yaebginn]

To some that may be an issue, but I dont much pay a whole lot of attention to speculation. If there is objectives, great, if not, thats cool, too. and while it's out, it will be a kicking game, and if a better one comes along, that's cool, too. by ultimate, we dont mean the best ever, we mean the best now.

[SITH_ShadowCat]

It seems like your the one spitting speculations out. I would suggest doing some research before dishing out complaints. True galaxy was hyped, but largely do to the open-ended style of Online RPGs where people have a feeling that's its possible to do anything. But why people got turned away for the most part were bugs. Although I try to stay away from topics that throw in wild speculation (like environment damage and constructing buildings) most members create that stuff not because they dreamed it up, but mostly because they put together pieces of the puzzle. Although its true that some folk are completely getting some ideas from no where, its just going to be those people that get disappointed.

 

And if you knew anything about business, its that companies WANT to make the perfect game. I don't know where you dreamed up your idea (probably during your lunch time) but companies want to make a perfect game for one soul reason: compaction. So one company makes a game, k? Why should the people buy it? If companies like Konami or Squaresoft held back then they wouldn't be where they are today.

 

One question is were did you hear that car companies have the technology to make cars better AND cheaper? Never has better been cheaper, if so why don't the companies use them? They would get major business by being the best. Technology is always progressing, and until we reach the salvation of technology, there will not be no perfect, cheap car. Same goes for games. New ideas are created and are being used constantly, nothing is being held back.

 

As for SWBF being the ultimate game, no. The ultimate Star Wars Game? What's stopping it? Even if its not game of the year, it will at least be a good way to spend a weekend.

 

:END RANT:

[tFighterPilot]

Anyway, this brings me to the intended topic of this post: why SW:BF won't be the 'ultimate' Star Wars game, combining elements from all aspects of the SW universe - space and ground together. The answer is a simple and obvious one: money. Say LucasArts actually did produce the definitive Star Wars game - a game that no other SW title could match up to? Everyone interested would shell out their $50 and that would be it. Why buy another SW title when you already own the best? If LucasArts produced a game sooooo good (like some of you are suggesting with all the features that you practically expect to see in the game) that they didn't need to produce any more SW titles for the next...say...two years until they might have to update the graphics engine or something, there probably wouldn't be much of a LucasArts left to produce it.

Pandemic Studio makes the game, LucasArts only publish it. You should really do some reaserch before posting crap like that.

[VanLingo]

Schetter, with under 25 posts, I highly doubt that you read every subject of speculation on these boards.

 

But even if you did, I'd rather hear "I'd like to see..." over "This is gonna suck because..." any day.

 

And didn't you send me an e-mail asking for clan info? For someone who doesn't like speculation, you sure don't mind jumping on the bandwagon when it suits you.

[Mountainforest]

I understand what you mean, and I can Imagine thet some people will be disapointed because the game won't get the standars the dreamed of. But most people (including me) make these threads to speculate how different aspects of the game will be, putting pieces of the puzzle together like SITH_ShadowCat said.

 

Furthermore, I think swbf is made by star wars fans, so they probably will make it as good as it can get.

 

We don't say there won't be a better game, it's just the best star wars game until now.

 

And there are other things that make clear this star wars game will be special. This is the first game that shows a decent animation of an AT-ST walking. Those small things make me believe this game will be the best until now.

[Schetter]

It's called milking a cash cow, people. The object of being in business is the most money possible over the longest period of time. My point is that if the ultimate Star Wars game was made, released, and consumed, there would be less of a reason for consumers to buy future games if there was already a better one out.

 

Not to mention that this game could be nothing more than a glitz-over-substance BF:42 clone made to snag a piece of the Battlefield pie. BF:Nam was and still is a far inferior game to BF:42 in just about every aspect save for graphics, and yet it sold huge and is still selling.

 

Squaresoft made what was considered the perfect RPG at the time because it was their last gasp for air as a company. Final Fantasy had to sell or the company was broke. There's no reason for a company to sell a perfect game when they know they can keep putting out mediocre to good games every so often to keep the cash flow coming.

 

 

Never has better been cheaper? One quick example: SDRAM is cheaper MB for MB compared to PC 100/133 RAM. Products can easily be made better at a far lesser cost - but there's no reason to do so if progress can be deliberately stretched out over years so that the companies can cash in at every step of the way. The car example I used earlier may be a bit of a conspiracy theory...but it's certainly not impossible. It's easier to do with games, especially when you have complete control over an entire genre.

 

 

"companies want to make a perfect game for one soul reason: compaction"

 

So are you going to support your arguement or just leave it at that? And why the heck would LucasArts want to sell one title that has amazing space and ground battles when they could split it into two separate titles and make twice as much money off the people that want both?

 

[edit]

Reading your post again, seems maybe you meant to say competition rather that 'compaction' (seemingly derived from 'compact'). No matter. You still overlooked the fact that LucasArts has no competition in the SW field! It owns the license to everything Star Wars. Competition is not a factor here - that's part of my point.

 

 

"Pandemic Studio makes the game, LucasArts only publish it. You should really do some reaserch before posting crap like that."

 

LucasArts obviously oversees the production and is obviously getting a large portion of the profits of the game. What, you think LucasArts is just some CD pressing company?

 

Come back when you have an acutal arguement. And while we're on the subject of flames, since you posted nothing substantial and proceeded to call my post 'crap,' maybe you should use spell check next time. Research has nothing to do with realizing that whoever is making this game has no reason to make it perfect in order to make it sell. Hell, all of you will buy it regardless of quality the day it comes out, just like all the idiots that bought BF:Vietnam the day it came out.

 

I'm not saying that it's going to be trash. I think highly to the contrary. What I don't think is that SW:BF is going to be this pinnacle of Star Wars greatness that all of you are waiting for.

 

 

 

 

"Furthermore, I think swbf is made by star wars fans, so they probably will make it as good as it can get."

 

NO. It's made by a game production company for business reasons. Whether they are fans or not is irrelevant.

 

 

 

Van, I'm planning on moving my clan into this game when it comes out if it's any good. And what bandwagon exactly have I jumped on? Get your facts straight, bud.

 

Post count has nothing to do with how much has been read.

 

 

 

Seems like I'm getting a lot of flames. Expected when you're not all sunshine and lollipops. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[yaebginn]

huh? you seem to be one of those people who think they are right and everyone else is wrong. I'm sometimes like you. Now is not one of those times. It is going to be a akicking game and will be the ultimate star wars game until another comes out. it wont be the best ever, but will be for now. and yes, it would be neat if some things happen, but alot of those 'speculation' threads are either completely wrong or mentioned in various articles. You think your point is such a great revelation, but it simply blows.

[Schetter]

Thanks for more flames. Oh, and the irrefutable arguements of "It is going to be a akicking game" and "You think your point is such a great revelation, but it simply blows." are earthshattering. Thanks for proving me wrong.

[yaebginn]

anytime, just doing my job. I'm no hero.

[VanLingo]

Got news for you, pal -- you're not bursting anyone's bubble, because you've got nothing negative to say about this game except a very healthy dose of consumer skepticism.

 

Here's an idea for ya:

 

Say Pandemic makes a great game. It sells one million copies at $50 apiece, then hits the Greatest Hits list and sells 500,000 more at $20 apiece.

That's $60 million in about 5 years -- you follow? (3 years for the development, 2 for sales)

 

Now say they decide to give the consumer the shaft (as in your theory). They make a sucky game that appeals only to the die-hard Star Wars fans and they sell 600,000 at $50.

That's $30 million so far.

Then they try to sucker the gaming community again. Because of their sore reputation from the last game, they only manage to sell 200,000 at $50 for another $10 million.

That's a total of $40 million in 9 years (3 years for SWBF development, 2 years for SWBF sales, 2 years for SWBF 2 development, 2 years for SWBF 2 sales).

 

So which one sounds better to you? Work hard to make a great game and sell it, or work harder to make a sucky game that your own kids won't play -- and then do it over again just to get the drop on the average gamer?

Granted, these are rough figures, but at least I'm backing my theory up.

 

I swear, you're probably one of those types that blames George W for everything. "What do you mean, 'the dishwasher is broke'?! It's President Bush's fault that I'm too stupid to fix it!"

 

If you want to argue consumer politics of the gaming industry, try someplace else. These are the boards of the hopefuls, and you're impossibly outmatched.

[yaebginn]

and quit trying to act like a martyr. 'Oh, yeah, flame me if you wish,' or 'Oh, another flame' you're bot someone being persecuted for a cause, you're being persecuted cause you're making a retarded statement.

[tFighterPilot]

Originally posted by Schetter

It's called milking a cash cow, people. The object of being in business is the most money possible over the longest period of time. My point is that if the ultimate Star Wars game was made, released, and consumed, there would be less of a reason for consumers to buy future games if there was already a better one out.

 

Not to mention that this game could be nothing more than a glitz-over-substance BF:42 clone made to snag a piece of the Battlefield pie. BF:Nam was and still is a far inferior game to BF:42 in just about every aspect save for graphics, and yet it sold huge and is still selling.

 

Squaresoft made what was considered the perfect RPG at the time because it was their last gasp for air as a company. Final Fantasy had to sell or the company was broke. There's no reason for a company to sell a perfect game when they know they can keep putting out mediocre to good games every so often to keep the cash flow coming.

 

 

Never has better been cheaper? One quick example: SDRAM is cheaper MB for MB compared to PC 100/133 RAM. Products can easily be made better at a far lesser cost - but there's no reason to do so if progress can be deliberately stretched out over years so that the companies can cash in at every step of the way. The car example I used earlier may be a bit of a conspiracy theory...but it's certainly not impossible. It's easier to do with games, especially when you have complete control over an entire genre.

 

 

"companies want to make a perfect game for one soul reason: compaction"

 

So are you going to support your arguement or just leave it at that? And why the heck would LucasArts want to sell one title that has amazing space and ground battles when they could split it into two separate titles and make twice as much money off the people that want both?

 

[edit]

Reading your post again, seems maybe you meant to say competition rather that 'compaction' (seemingly derived from 'compact'). No matter. You still overlooked the fact that LucasArts has no competition in the SW field! It owns the license to everything Star Wars. Competition is not a factor here - that's part of my point.

 

 

"Pandemic Studio makes the game, LucasArts only publish it. You should really do some reaserch before posting crap like that."

 

LucasArts obviously oversees the production and is obviously getting a large portion of the profits of the game. What, you think LucasArts is just some CD pressing company?

 

Come back when you have an acutal arguement. And while we're on the subject of flames, since you posted nothing substantial and proceeded to call my post 'crap,' maybe you should use spell check next time. Research has nothing to do with realizing that whoever is making this game has no reason to make it perfect in order to make it sell. Hell, all of you will buy it regardless of quality the day it comes out, just like all the idiots that bought BF:Vietnam the day it came out.

 

I'm not saying that it's going to be trash. I think highly to the contrary. What I don't think is that SW:BF is going to be this pinnacle of Star Wars greatness that all of you are waiting for.

 

 

 

 

"Furthermore, I think swbf is made by star wars fans, so they probably will make it as good as it can get."

 

NO. It's made by a game production company for business reasons. Whether they are fans or not is irrelevant.

 

 

 

Van, I'm planning on moving my clan into this game when it comes out if it's any good. And what bandwagon exactly have I jumped on? Get your facts straight, bud.

 

Post count has nothing to do with how much has been read.

 

 

 

Seems like I'm getting a lot of flames. Expected when you're not all sunshine and lollipops. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Flaming motherf/cker, you are laughing at me for making one typo?

 

Believe me that LucasArts won't put any pressure on pandemic to make a bad game. This concept is quite silly when you come to think of it. Yeah, I admit, Pandemic did make a sequel to Battlezone, but that didn't mean Battlezone 1 was any less good. It's just that technology changes, and making a sequal to a great game with better graphics can hardly be called milking for money.

[Mountainforest]

I agree with you one one point: those who believe to much in speculations will be disapointed. But furtermore, everything points in the direction of battlefront being a very good game.

[yaebginn]

you really had to quote that whole thing, didnt you? lol.

[tFighterPilot]

Originally posted by yaebginn

you really had to quote that whole thing, didnt you? lol.

Yes, that makes my post look lengthy

[Schetter]

*shrug* tFighter, don't dish it out when you can't handle it. Calling me a MF-er doesn't change anything. Nor does calling my ideas 'crap' discredit them.

 

If I came in here and said that SW:BF was going to be complete crap then I'd understand all this flak. All I'm trying to say is that it's not going to be the 'ultimate SW game.' Nor does it need to be the best SW game to date in order to sell - and selling is all that LucasArts really cares about.

 

I'm also trying to say that all this speculation about "what's going to be in the game and what's this map going to be like and what's this soldier going to carry and what is the tail gunner of the snowspeeder going to be able to do" etc etc ad nauseum is not only useless but potentially harmful to the community if it gets too out of control. The thread on 'lag' was the kicker for me. People already worrying about lag for a game that's not even out net on a netcode that hasn't been released or extensibly tested yet just blew my mind.

[VanLingo]

We're sorry that these simple concepts confuse you.

 

And you aren't bringing any ideas in here at all. You're spouting liberal, whining, pessimistic, somebody-didn't-put-enough-peanuts-in-my-Snickers-so-I'm-suing CRAP.

[tFighterPilot]

Originally posted by Schetter

*shrug* tFighter, don't dish it out when you can't handle it. Calling me a MF-er doesn't change anything. Nor does calling my ideas 'crap' discredit them.

 

If I came in here and said that SW:BF was going to be complete crap then I'd understand all this flak. All I'm trying to say is that it's not going to be the 'ultimate SW game.' Nor does it need to be the best SW game to date in order to sell - and selling is all that LucasArts really cares about.

 

I'm also trying to say that all this speculation about "what's going to be in the game and what's this map going to be like and what's this soldier going to carry and what is the tail gunner of the snowspeeder going to be able to do" etc etc ad nauseum is not only useless but potentially harmful to the community if it gets too out of control. The thread on 'lag' was the kicker for me. People already worrying about lag for a game that's not even out net on a netcode that hasn't been released or extensibly tested yet just blew my mind.

I'm glad that your mind has been blown, but show me where I said your posts are crap.

[Schetter]

Originally posted by VanLingo

Got news for you, pal -- you're not bursting anyone's bubble, because you've got nothing negative to say about this game except a very healthy dose of consumer skepticism.

 

Here's an idea for ya:

 

Say Pandemic makes a great game. It sells one million copies at $50 apiece, then hits the Greatest Hits list and sells 500,000 more at $20 apiece.

That's $60 million in about 5 years -- you follow? (3 years for the development, 2 for sales)

 

Now say they decide to give the consumer the shaft (as in your theory). They make a sucky game that appeals only to the die-hard Star Wars fans and they sell 600,000 at $50.

That's $30 million so far.

Then they try to sucker the gaming community again. Because of their sore reputation from the last game, they only manage to sell 200,000 at $50 for another $10 million.

That's a total of $40 million in 9 years (3 years for SWBF development, 2 years for SWBF sales, 2 years for SWBF 2 development, 2 years for SWBF 2 sales).

 

So which one sounds better to you? Work hard to make a great game and sell it, or work harder to make a sucky game that your own kids won't play -- and then do it over again just to get the drop on the average gamer?

Granted, these are rough figures, but at least I'm backing my theory up.

 

I swear, you're probably one of those types that blames George W for everything. "What do you mean, 'the dishwasher is broke'?! It's President Bush's fault that I'm too stupid to fix it!"

 

If you want to argue consumer politics of the gaming industry, try someplace else. These are the boards of the hopefuls, and you're impossibly outmatched.

 

 

Good points. My vantage point is that there's nothing stopping LucasArts/Pandemic/whoever from consistently pumping decent games that play ok and hype the crap out of them to push them onto the 'Greatest Hits' list (if such a list actually exists........).

 

 

 

EA is currently pulling what you just described above. BF:42 was astronomical. BF:V was a community sucker punch. Furthermore, they announced that they were already planning on releasing an entirely new BF game (BF:2) within a year, essentially letting all that bought BF:V, were disappointed, and were expected major patches that they should drop those expectations because the majority of their efforts were already turned towards a new game. BF:2 better deliver or it'll be the end of the BF franchise.

 

"Work hard to make a great game and sell it, or work harder to make a sucky game that your own kids won't play -- and then do it over again just to get the drop on the average gamer?"

 

There's the one logical flaw in your post - it takes more work to make a good game than to make a crappy one. More work = more money paid out to those working on it.

 

The cheap shot about my general mindset was not appreciated. So F**k off. I supported Bush on most points until the past few months until it became painfully apparent that we were all misled about the reasons for going into Iraq. Anyway...entirely unrelated and entirely uncalled for.

[Schetter]

Originally posted by tFighterPilot

I'm glad that your mind has been blown, but show me where I said your posts are crap.

 

 

 

Originally posted by tFighterPilot

Pandemic Studio makes the game, LucasArts only publish it. You should really do some reaserch before posting crap like that.

[VanLingo]

He already showed you, tFighter.

 

But he is right about one thing: calling his ideas "crap" doesn't chage them. They always were crap, and they still are.

 

Who knows, maybe Schetter had some bad coffee today or something, but he sure likes to tear stuff down.

Maybe Schetter needs to take a schet before he posts next time.

[tFighterPilot]

Originally posted by Schetter

Actually, I was refering to the part where you flamed me for making that typo in research.

 

Start reading my posts instead of just flaming me, kthx

[yaebginn]

I didnt know you were a conservative, lingo. I mean, I am too, but there seems to be no conservs anywhere, yet online, there are a ton. if you want a good laugh, go to http://www.democraticunderground.com it's a hoot.

[Schetter]

'Clever' twistings of words and personal attacks don't further the discussion here.

 

 

 

"Start reading my posts instead of just flaming me, kthx"

 

Ditto.