tFighterPilot Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Originally posted by Idei then you haven't played with the right players. Find some serious players and you will understand how effective voice communication is in a game. UT2K4 has radar btw and it works well in that game. So that leads me to ask, what is your point about radar. None of your posts have actually stated an opinion on the topic: radar. Idei I don't really want to have an opinion while I'm not sure exactly how will it be. So far I know it show friends. It should stay that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt. Havoc Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Finally, the reason I support limited range universal radar is that finding the opponent on big maps can be a real chore. By limited radar I am talking about radar that displays friend or foe (IFF) within say 200m. Limited range. Spending time searching the the entire map for the opponent might be fun to some players, but I would prefer having a general indication of where the opposing players are. It could be as simple as a arrow on the compass indicating where the nearest opponent is once they are in range. What ability would you have to spring an effective ambush? As defenders if the assaulting side doesn't know your position then they don't know where to focus their attention and efforts. Granted seeing an opponent on the radar would lure people in conflict easier but would a lone AT-ST wander into an area he is certain there are 6 anti-armor soldiers waiting for him. Flanking, hit and fade, ambushes and a whole range of tactics would get thrown away an replaced with radar following ones. Almost every engagement would be a "head-on" one because both sides know each other are coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idei Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Originally posted by tFighterPilot I don't really want to have an opinion while I'm not sure exactly how will it be. So far I know it show friends. It should stay that way. then why post on a thread that specifically asks people about their opinions about radar. There's a reason why forums have topics and threads associated with them. Posting on a topic without having an opinion just gets in the way of people that have something to say about the subject. Based upon your last post: tFighterPilot's opinion is that he supports radar that displays only teammates. The original poster stated that currently the radar displays both teams in different colors. It's also been mentioned in some of the linked reviews that were posted in the last couple days. So just be aware that currently the radar is neutral - displays both teams. Wishlist items like server radar settings aside, I've found radar to always enhance gameplay. As stated earlier, it is invaluable on larger maps where finding teammates or opponents can be a chore. The standard radar in most games display teammates only and that seems to work fine, but there are plenty of games that support radar that displays both teams. Warcraft 3, Tribes 2 are examples of successful games that support radar that displays both teams. They do have restrictions in that the radar basically displays units that are visible within a certain range of an friendly unit or radar sensor. That's what I'm referring to in limiting the range of radar. I like the fact that SWBF will include radar, and I like that the radar will display both teams as long as the radar only displays units within a certain range of the player. What I would like to see is a server option that allows different settings on the radar since most players seem to want teammate only radar. Idei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tFighterPilot Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 You can't comparte Warcraft 3 with battlefront, as it is an RTS... Maybe it's a good idea that the radar would show the enemy only when he moves, so that snipers could stay out of radar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idei Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Originally posted by Lt. Havoc What ability would you have to spring an effective ambush? As defenders if the assaulting side doesn't know your position then they don't know where to focus their attention and efforts. That also gives aggressive teams an advantage over defensive ones. A good strategy game should support both styles of play. I expect covert units in the game will be invisible on radar, allowing covert teams to perform even in close proximity to the other team. If they included radar they will support some method of getting around radar as well. Granted seeing an opponent on the radar would lure people in conflict easier but would a lone AT-ST wander into an area he is certain there are 6 anti-armor soldiers waiting for him. Radar in most games only display number of units, so I expect the AT-ST will have an indication that 6 players of the opposing team are in nearby vicinity, but without visually seeing them the AT-ST pilot won't know exactly what the AT-ST is facing. Flanking, hit and fade, ambushes and a whole range of tactics would get thrown away an replaced with radar following ones. Almost every engagement would be a "head-on" one because both sides know each other are coming. All valid concerns in this post. Again, I expect covert units will be nondetectable by radar so that aspect of gameplay should be alive and well in SWBF. Give them some credit. Pandemic Studios also developed a title called Full Spectrum Warrior that simulates modern tactical squad combat. There is a retail version, but Full Spectrum Warrior also has a military version that the US Army bought to train their officers in field operations. These guys understand enough about real world operations to produce a military training simulator (FSW) for the US Army. I expect that their other products, like SWBF will reflect their knowledge in the area of tactical strategy and game design. Idei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idei Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Originally posted by tFighterPilot You can't comparte Warcraft 3 with battlefront, as it is an RTS... Maybe it's a good idea that the radar would show the enemy only when he moves, so that snipers could stay out of radar. If I play SWBF in third person and zoom the camera way out, it will look just like an RTS, especially with 32 units on the map. Radar that displays motion detection only is a good idea. More than likely that will have be a mod project as just describing it sounds complicated. Idei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tFighterPilot Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Originally posted by Idei If I play SWBF in third person and zoom the camera way out, it will look just like an RTS, especially with 32 units on the map. Radar that displays motion detection only is a good idea. More than likely that will have be a mod project as just describing it sounds complicated. Idei Not at all, I'm quite sure that's how it was in Battlezone2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idei Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 How is it implemented in Battlezone2. Idei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idei Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 On second thought, motion detection only is too complicated to be a good idea. The benefit of radar is knowing where your teammates are, and also knowing where the opponent is. If both teams stand still the radar appears blank. People would phase in and out based upon whether they were moving. Good idea in principle, but gameplay wise it would be complicated. Idei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tFighterPilot Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Originally posted by Idei On second thought, motion detection only is too complicated to be a good idea. The benefit of radar is knowing where your teammates are, and also knowing where the opponent is. If both teams stand still the radar appears blank. People would phase in and out based upon whether they were moving. Good idea in principle, but gameplay wise it would be complicated. Idei No, it will show your teammates all the time, but will only show enemies when they're moving, or firing! Great for setting ambushes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alegis Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 -A radar that only shows enemies that move promotes camping. -Too complicated is a good point; Why not just enemies that are bery close orso, or just only teammates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idei Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Originally posted by tFighterPilot No, it will show your teammates all the time, but will only show enemies when they're moving, or firing! Great for setting ambushes! Still way too complicated. Ambushes are only part of the game, the radar shouldn't be oriented around just facilitating ambushes. I prefer neutral radar that displays both teams within the nearby vicinity. The exception would be covert units that would be nondetectable on radar. On certain maps like Endor and Hoth players will also have camoed uniforms making them hard to detect even if they appear on radar. EDIT: Added original tFighterPilot quote Idei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 So far only a single unit has covert abilities and that's the Rebel Sniper. I highly doubt the Imperial Scout Trooper will have the same ability. Having a radar like that might be unbalanced in favor of the Rebels especially when on Endor the rebels already have better camo(except for the pilot) then the Imperials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idei Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Just wishlist the neutral radar. ZeroXcape mentioned in his thread that radar only displays teammates, vehicles and NPCs. He also mentioned that camo doesn't work very well since the targeting cursor changes color once it's over a valid target. This may change as they balance the game. My preference is neutral radar, but team radar is a very solid feature and it looks like that's the one they have implemented. EDIT: grammar Idei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Besides, either radar is viable. The only thing you need is adaptation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idei Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 I'm already familiar with both. that won't be an issue. Idei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joesdomain Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 I am not sure how they use radar in Battlefront. Maybe you could go to a command post and watch if there is enemy units coming towards your base or something like that. That is all the ideas I can think of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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