Star Wars DVDs!

[Admiral Vostok]

All I ask for is some evidence for your outrageous claim, Viceroy. If you can't provide that then don't start flaming everyone by suggesting we are in our own little world.

[DK_Viceroy]

My Evidence Is common Sense and if that cant be defined in any clearer Terms then I'm sorry but Common sense is common sense it's an elusive concept that you can't exactly make a poster depicting it.

 

I Flame no one All I'm saying is I'll leave him in the world he obviously lives in where he thinks Everyone must follow that Ever changing this that is the movies GL may have Created It but each time he makes a special Edition he ruins it and if he's willing to grovel Mindlessly before someone that Has better things to do then Lurk in this forum I'll let him I just won't listen it'll remind me too much of the Gratefully Departed Puzzlebox.

 

Anyway let's stear clear of this argument starter before someone's feelings get hurt let's talk about something else.

[Admiral Vostok]

Nice comeback Just admit you have nothing to back up your rediculous claim and drop it already.

[Nairb Notneb]

Ok Lukesdad, and everyone else that is listening (reading), I hereby announce that Viceroy and I (Nairb Notneb) disagree on which is more correct in the "World of Star Wars", EU or the Movies. I solemnly swear to do my best not to argue about it from this day forth (after this post) because Star Wars is only a movie, a bunch of toys, games, books, etc and is not real. (There I admitted it ok.)

 

Viceroy, I do not understand why anybody would accept EU "fact" to supersede movie "fact", but that's ok I don't have to because it is not important to anyone except George Lucas and all of his employees or anyone else that makes a living off of the Star Wars franchise in some way. That's reality and I think we all would, could and should agree with that. I have no problem being wrong, I am often wrong, I'm good at it. If I ever all please let me know, politely.

 

I would like to address an issue though, however.

 

Viceroy

I Flame no one All I'm saying is I'll leave him in the world he obviously lives in where he thinks Everyone must follow that Ever changing this that is the movies GL may have Created It but each time he makes a special Edition he ruins it and if he's willing to grovel Mindlessly before someone that Has better things to do then Lurk in this forum I'll let him I just won't listen it'll remind me too much of the Gratefully Departed Puzzlebox.

 

That was kind of difficult to follow lacking punctuation but I believe I got the basic idea. If I'm wrong here please correct me and I will gladly admit my mistake and apologize.

 

I would agree with you that George Lucas does discredit the argument of the movies being cannon by changing them with every special edition that comes out with a change, even if it is minor. That is one of the reasons I don't like them. I do not "grovel" at the feet of George Lucas or anybody assuming you were directing this statement at me, I am not certain. Also, the one that got to me the most. What makes you say that I "lurk" in this forum? I come here, just as you and everyone else does, to participate in Star Wars related discussions. I understand that I am still new here as I have only been a member since June of this year, but I am not an outcast and this forum belongs to no one else here. These are the Lucas Forums not the Viceroy Forums, nor are they the Notneb Forums.

 

Now I have agreed to disagree with you on which are cannon, the movies or EU, it is a done matter. We disagree, but don't treat me or anyone else like an inferior because of a disagreement, that is immature and demonstrates a week argument.

[DK_Viceroy]

I Am the master of the multi Layered Agenda

 

That statement was designed to see if you bear a similarity to the Gratefully Departed Puzzelbox.

 

Nairb We all Lurk around here Vostok Lurk's I Lurk Everyone Lurk's

 

Some people will say hand around some people will say pop in I say Lurk and Linger.

 

And thank you for agreeing to Disagree If only everyone else would do that and not forever dredge up old arguments.

 

Ever Since Lucas started changing the films they were no longer Perfect they were no Longer unchangeable and Immutable now the Perfect Star Wars Exists as a form an idea in the world of froms and idea's Now the movie's are only a particular of the idea of star wars like the books are a particular of the form that is star wars and they all Participate in The One.

 

 

Platonic or what.

 

 

I have never ever said anything to the effect that one is the suprior to the other.

 

We are all in The cave and only a few can turn around and free themselves with the fascination of the shadows cast by the Ideas and Forms.

[Nairb Notneb]

Good, as long as we are cool, then we are cool and all is good. I don't think I ever met this Puzzelbox so the comparison is lost on me, sorry.

 

Your argument with the changing movies is one that I have made in threads of other forums here when I was expressing my dislike for them. Others except them with no problems, I have excepted them begrudgingly because I enjoy the DVD format and I am an enormous Star Wars fan and will always be one. My knowledge is not as vast as others but it is greater than your average bear.

 

Now I understand that your use of the word Lurk was not directed solely at me and I agree with your last post, we all "lurk" about in these forums, wandering around anonymously, some pretending to be something they are not.

 

But, one thing is certain, Star Wars rules and I can't wait for May!!

[DK_Viceroy]

Well naturally we all look forward to May well in my case it';s propably a different date Since we Europeans always get things last despite the fact that Europeans designed the forefathers of most modern weapons.

 

I however look most forward to February to spend my Christmas Money on a Nintendo DS.

 

Your right our arguments' are similar except I Couch mine in Platonic thought since so far In Philosophy And Ethics that is the only Philosopher we have studied so far but we've done him in loads of detail strange though how over 35 lessons we've only done one main philosopher and 5 minor ones.

 

 

 

 

Beleive Me You Are Most Fortunate in not meeting him try Reading through Some of the old threads and you'll find why I hate him with such a vengance and I have a talent of holding Grudges that a Hutt would envy.

[Admiral Vostok]

Since the issue has come up I thought I'd add my two cents about Special Editions and Canon.

 

Because George Lucas is making the Special Editions, they thereby become the new Canon. The old versions of the movies are replaced, never to see the light of day again. However were some other party to re-edit Star Wars, it would no longer be Canon: George Lucas, as creator, is the only one who can create Canon.

 

To those who believe the newer versions of Star Wars aren't canonical, I ask them which version of A New Hope they prefer: Star Wars or A New Hope? Many people don't know this, but when Star Wars was originally released way back in 1977, it did not have the subtitle A New Hope. It started with "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away...." then went to the STAR WARS logo as usual, but then it went straight into "It is a period of civil war...", there was no "Episode IV: A New Hope". The episode number and subtitle were only added a year later when Star Wars was re-released in 1978. I believe there were several other changes made in addition to this, but this was the most obvious.

 

So which version is the "original"? The one that appeared for less than a year, or the one that endured for 19 years after that? My point is that even in 1978, George Lucas had already made a "Special Edition" version of A New Hope that audiences around the world have just accepted as the definitive version.

 

Anyway, just a little food for though, especially since Viceroy seems to be getting overly philosophical on us recently.

 

 

Now, slightly back on topic, I have a little easter egg that owners of the DVDs may be interested in. On the Special Features disc, go to the Photo Galleries and Games menu, the one with Luke training with the remote on the Millennium Falcon in the background. Now type in 1138. You may have to do it differently on different DVD players; on mine I had to type in 11 followed by 3, then 8. After you've done it a little box next to Artoo lights up. If you press Enter whilst the box is highlighted, it plays the DVD credits with bloopers from all three of the movies. Some are quite amusing.

[DK_Viceroy]

When Have i ever said anything that is remotely Cut and Dry. Of course it's been a gradual Transition from being literal but I will still cut to the heart of the point.

 

To answer that Vostok Only the Originals are Cannon because then they were perfect but the second they released The special editions they were no longer perfect and no longer cannon Cannon does not replace another Cannon.

 

Therefore the Movies are not eternal and not immutable they are no longer the Ideal star wars for now the Ideal Star Wars The Perfect Star Wars Exists in the world of ideas as a form an idea.

 

The Movies are particulars which partake of the Idea of star wars and the Star warsiness the EU is immutable because you don't release special edition's of a book, well rarely and then their usually collections of book's with no changes.

 

That makes the EU perfect because it is immutable Unchanging it Partakes Of star Warsiness as an idea a form and indeed Is more true to the Idea of star wars then the Movies and their Many Special editions they partake of the Idea of star wars yes they are one particular facet of the idea that is star wars, but because of these special editions the movies are no longer Immutable and therefore not perfect.

 

Therefore not cannon because you can say but ah this edition says this and this edition has that. They all partake of the Idea of star wars but star wars as a perfect idea or an ideal no longer exists in the mortal world it exists in the world of ideas and the idea of star wars partakes of The One.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Seriously Viceroy use frigging punctuation.

 

Looking at your posts makes my eyes hurt and it's not a good thing when trying to show your arguments if they're unreadable.

[DK_Viceroy]

Ah But remeber Punctuation is A Particular of the Idea that Is Puctuation there is no such thing as perfect Punctuation only The One is perfect and the ideas and forms are perfect also but to a lesser extent.

[Admiral Vostok]

There is such a thing as perfect punctuation, and while you probably can't hope to achieve it you should at least aim for some punctuation. Allow me to impart a few words of wisdom about punctuation and sentence structure. If your sentence is longer than thirty words it is too long and must be broken into smaller sentences. Take that advice and your English grades may improve somewhat.

 

Now, back on topic, I didn't have the discipline to read your post fully because as Luke's Dad says it hurts the eyes. Just a few points you should note:

• Immutability does not imply perfection.
  
• Immutability has nothing to do with Canon.
  
• The EU is not immutable (For an example of this refer to the character of Jaster Mareel pre- and post-prequels).
  
• Canon IS the movies and nothing else, no matter how you twist your logic.
  

[Kryllith]

Originally posted by Admiral Vostok

Allow me to impart a few words of wisdom about punctuation and sentence structure. If your sentence is longer than thirty words it is too long and must be broken into smaller sentences. Take that advice and your English grades may improve somewhat.

While I agree with the need for punctuation, given that I taught college English for several years, this idea about a sentence being too long if it's more than thirty words is bull. For example, my last sentence was thirty three words in length and is easily understandable. However, if someone is writing excessively long sentences without any form of punctuation, then something should be done to break it into more manageable pieces. Even then it doesn't require separating it into individual sentences; a few commas, hyphens, parentheses, or a well-placed semi-colon can do the trick.

 

On Topic:

 

The only difference I recall between the original theatrical release and the re-release is the addition of the subtitle, which Lucas added since it was obvious he could create the followup movies. As for whether canon can be overwritten, Lucas has the ability to change the canon if he so choose because, let's face it, it's his baby. We may not like individual changes, and a fair number might believe that George has taken a leave of his senses, but it's still his work to do with as he wishes.

 

Kryllith

[DK_Viceroy]

Or as everyone else says

 

To Ruin As He pleases Himself But Not everyone else.

[Admiral Vostok]

OFF TOPIC:

While I agree with the need for punctuation, given that I taught college English for several years, this idea about a sentence being too long if it's more than thirty words is bull.

Of course there is no maximum length for a sentence. I just thought since Viceroy seems to have such a problem with it I'd give him a tip that my 8th Grade English teacher told us, rather than get into the technicalities of more advanced English that a college-level educator such as yourself might impart. After all, you must learn to crawl before you can walk.

 

ON TOPIC:

The only difference I recall between the original theatrical release and the re-release is the addition of the subtitle, which Lucas added since it was obvious he could create the followup movies.

Indeed, but my point is still relevant. Lucas added the subtitle in 1978 after the movie was a success since the studio in 1977 would not allow it; they thought the addition of a subtitle and episode number in particular would be way too confusing. Having listened to the A New Hope audio commentary yesterday, Lucas goes on to mention that he at first never meant to fill in the first three Episodes, he instead wanted to create the Saturday matinee feel with the episode number so it was like you'd come into the theatre and missed last weeks episode so had to figure out everything that was going on yourself.

 

But at any rate, I personally don't see how a seemingly minor change like this is any different from, say, the inclusion of the new Jabba the Hutt scene in A New Hope. Another thing evident from the audio commentaries was that Lucas had filmed this scene for the 1977 release, but he wanted Jabba the Hutt to be some kind of stop-motion character in the scene. The budget was already stretched, and since the scene only mattered for the trilogy as a whole and was not necessary for A New Hope by itself it could be dropped.

 

But getting to my point, is there really any difference from the inclusion of the subtitle and episode number (something Lucas wanted to include but couldn't because of studio requests) to the inclusion of the Jabba the Hutt scene (something Lucas wanted to include but couldn't because of money shortage)? Personally I don't believe so. If Lucas had have waited until 1997 to include the subtitle and episode number rather than done it in 1978, I believe that it too would be reviled as Lucas "unnecessarily" tweaking his movies.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Just some funny facts, the actor who played the "original" Jabba the Hutt was just a big Irish guy. Didn't feel like Jabba at all.

[Majin Boba Fett]

The big Irish guy? Was that the guy wearing the monkey suit with no mask?

[DK_Viceroy]

*Whacks Vostok over the head with a stick*

 

My punctuation and it's Ilk have been fine lately.

 

I don't know why everyone is complaining these days I really don't know.

[Majin Boba Fett]

Punctuation might be good, but the spelling is another story ("ilkd").

[DK_Viceroy]

It's called a TYPO we can't all be like you Nitro and be perfect.

 

At least I post frequently instead of running off to Iraq or some other hellish place every week or other.

[swphreak]

Ok, DK, you really need to stop it.

 

Everyone needs to stop bugging DK about his language skills. You don't have to read his posts.

 

DK, you need to quit being sarcastic when it offends some people.

 

We need to chill out. The new RTS was finally announced. Let's all get drunk and pass out on top of each other.

[Majin Boba Fett]

I agree with Phreak on this one.

[DK_Viceroy]

Anyway I just saw some of the Deleted scenes from Ep's 1 and 2 I don't get why they were cut in some cases it was just length but a few minutes here and there wouldn't have made a huge differnce.

[saberhagen]

Cos they were totally superfluous and sometimes ridiculous? I mean, the waterfall scene. Why??? What made them even want to shoot it?

 

OTOH, there is part of a deleted scene which should have been left in as it explains why Qui Gonn and Anakin were already running before they saw Darth Maul coming.

 

I haven't even watched the AOTC deleted scenes. I've probably said this before, but how bad must a scene have to be to get cut from AOTC?

[DK_Viceroy]

I think they could have added in the Jedi Starfighter Hangar scene and the Iterrorgation + Trial scene those would have added a little more atmosphere sintead of them going from being captured to being Executed I like the Trial scene and Poggle's line about being Builders of Weapons so they have no worries.