Homeschoolers Sound Off

[Redwing]

Originally posted by Spider AL

Do the statistics support you in this claim, Redwing, or are you just projecting your own experience onto your world-view? I'm not dissing you, I'm genuinely curious as regards this subject. From what I've been told, homeschooling when done correctly is a fundamentally superior method of education.

 

I don't know the statistics, but I'm not judging from my own experience; I'm judging from the fact that most parents who homeschool do it to protect their children from the outside world; i.e. viewpoints opposing their own.

 

Although, perhaps you're right; the above does not necessarily hold true for all kids who fall under the banner of homeschooling. Just the ones I have known of, which considering their numbers I have always assumed formed a majority. Yet if that is so, it puts most homeschooled kids here in the minority, because you're on the Internet, being exposed to alternate points of view all over the place.

 

(And, I agree that homeschooling when done correctly is a fundamentally superior method of education. However, knowledge isn't necessarily everything.)

 

You do realise that there are plenty of kids IN SCHOOL who have absolutely feeble social skills, don't you? They're ostracised, they form cliques of nerds, they become bitter and twisted... they try to set fire to their schools, you name it.

 

Once again it appears to me as if the quality of homeschooling would depend entirely on the school, ie: The home in question.

 

Yes, certainly. I didn't say that my experienced matched everyone's. I had NO chance to develop social skills; it is more common, to my observation, that homeschooled children have some opportunities to do so, since their parents are involved in communities themselves.

 

Note these nasty school kids you mentioned do have 'social skills', they are just very bad. Never said there wasn't a dark side of the coin.

[IG-64]

I'll just input that my mom is a very good teacher, and both my parents are very open-minded, and i'm content with my 1 friend, and his bro, and all the fun stuff we've done together. And all the great online friends I have, which is no diffrent IMHO, since I never do physical activities anyways. Me, my bro, my friend, and his bro, we all usually just sit down and talk or play video games, or work on the computer anyways.

 

One more thing: I don't feel like i've been educationally deprived in any way, in fact, my sister, who was homeschooled all her life is now going to community college, and has gotten high grades, and multiple comments about how our mom did a very good job teaching her. And she is now also working as a Japanese Tutor at the college, and has many new friends from her college and the jobs shes worked at.

 

So, I guess I just fall under the category one of the "lucky homeschoolers"

 

I'd also like to note (modesty aside ), that I am a very nice person in the real world. It's just that, once I tried to be nice online, I realised if I did so, then i'd get run over.

 

 

*leaves, content*

[Chewbacco]

Was in 7th and 8th grade in home school, now I am in 10th grade.

[Spider AL]

I don't know the statistics, but I'm not judging from my own experience; I'm judging from the fact that most parents who homeschool do it to protect their children from the outside world; i.e. viewpoints opposing their own.

Hmm, I think you may be referring to religious people here, in which case it would be a predominantly American phenomenon, as opposed to English. I, being from the UK, have a different perspective on the merits of the schooling system, as we don't get quite as many creationists over here.

 

(And, I agree that homeschooling when done correctly is a fundamentally superior method of education. However, knowledge isn't necessarily everything.)

Social skills are also learned behaviours, and therefore qualify as knowledge. Knowledge IS everything, pretty much.

 

Yet if that is so, it puts most homeschooled kids here in the minority, because you're on the Internet, being exposed to alternate points of view all over the place.

Yes, I should imagine the Internet would be fabulous for those American homeschooled kids that are allowed to access it.

[Elijah]

Originally posted by Vagabond

No doubt you gained valuable insight from your real-world experiences. But one of the first rules of ignorance is not knowing what you don't know. To assume that you automatically know more than every single American (not sure why Americans were singled out) who has not traveled to the same places that you have, is a very arrogant and inflammatory statement, illustrating that perhaps you are not so wise as you believe yourself to be.

Ignorant is taking what I said completely out of context. I singled out Americans, because out of all of the types of people I have met, in every different country, I find that the most arrogant and stuck group of people are the Americans. I simply stated that I knew more of the real world than the "average American" and I stand by those words,

 

With regard to the education of children, my wife has a degree in education, and actually taught elementary school for several years, before moving on to a more appreciative career. My point is that children do learn better when they are able to learn from and socialize with children of their own age.

Learn better what? What is it they learn better? A kid in public school only learns better around children his age, because he is brainwashed into believe it is the ONLY was he can learn

 

Equating children of the same age to working with people in the workplace of the same age is nonsensical, as that's not the purpose of that setting. Young children’s' minds develop at a very similar pace, hence it makes sense from a logistical and developmental point of view, to educate children of the same developmental level at the same time.

Equating Children with People is not nonsense in any way, “preparing your kids for life” is not putting them in a box every day for 6 hours with 30 kids their exact same age..

The biggest question I run into with people about me being home schooled is "well what about your social life?" my question is "What about it?" the people that ask me this, never take the time to take into account that I can obviously socialize with them enough to discuss my education history. The point about socialization is completely mute, utter nonsense and is completely annoying. I have met, and know more Public schooled kids, with less "street smarts" or "people skills" than any homeschoolers I know.

 

Quit the Stereo types, these assumptions that we are all locked up social rejects is utterly ridiculous. I apologize if I sound harsh about this, but seriously “you don’t know what your missing” goes two ways.

[MennoniteHobbit]

I go to a public school but I have not, and do not, had public school as my main source of knowledge. Even with public school my mom taught me things many grades ahead while I taught myself other things like computers, some physics, etc.

 

Homeschooling has its benefits as does public schooling. Personally I prefer public schooling due to the social activity... and people of both genders you meet....

 

My point is that children do learn better when they are able to learn from and socialize with children of their own age.

 

That could be due to actual motivation because there's someone to socialize with in the class so it isn't always so gloomy and boring, which in turn makes learning unwanted in a way.

[The Saxman]

Hi,

 

I have heard some REALLY weird idea's from both sides in this thread.

 

Don't base an opinion on one or two grades, of either public school, or homeschool. You will almost ALWAYS not like it, because it's different than what you're used to.

 

I graduated from homeschool last spring, having had my whole education at home. I scored post-high-school/college-level on my CAT tests since 8th grade (except for spelling ). My IQ test said I was a 146 (100 being average). And, school lasted about 3 hours a day for me.

 

A few questions: Why do some people in this thread think its WRONG for parents to teach their kids what they believe? ONE point of view has to be right. Is a teacher's point of view more healthy than a parents? Its not possible to teach something completely VOID of religion. If you don't teach one, you'll be teaching another. Evolution fits the definition of a religion, because science cannot PROVE that something has happend, it can only make observations on repeatable experiments. Thus, you must BELIEVE that evolution happend, if you are convinced that the evidence supports it. This makes Evolution a perfectly valid belief, NOT perfectly valid "science". (I'm STRESSING THIS POINT. Its up to you if YOU believe Evolution. Don't call me stupid for NOT believing it)

 

Yes, I AM a Christian (biblical literalist), Creationist (young earth), and a Republican.

 

I am not a Creationist because my parents "indoctrinated" me. Either the universe was created by something (or someone) apart from itself, or it created itself. I believe (based on several years of study in the subject) that the evidence does not support the latter idea. Thus I believe that a divine being created the universe.

 

As to why I'm a Christian, I have also studied several "holy" scriptures, and as to date there is NO evidence that anything in the Bible is false. That is, any evidence we have so far, has validated what the Bible says. Many other "holy" scriptures, are NOT validated by the evidence we have, and many contradict themselves. (The Bible does not contradict itself in the original languages, which I have read. Some of the modern english translations do, but is because of how weird english is!). I do not believe that this is the place to disscuss why I'm a protestant Christian, and not a Judiast. That belongs in a different forum.

 

As to why I am a Republican, that has to do with my studies of how economics work, and how I've seen Republican ideas applied. (NO political flame, PLEASE!!)

 

I have more friends than I can count (yes, REAL LIFE friends, and not all of them believe like I do). And they are of ALL ages. My youngest friend is 8, and my oldest friend is 27. (That's MALE AND FEMALE). A good number of my friends ARE the same age as me (Nathan, James, Emily, Charlie, Robert, Cathrine, Gabe, Lexi, Jeff, Bethany......). I've met them through church, work, concerts, parties and dozens of other places. We participate in almost every activity you can name. That's non harmful, No: smoking, drinking, sex, drugs, ect...

 

I do not have many ("many" not "any") public school friends, because most that I have met don't want to talk to me, and have said as much. Several people in this thread have said that when they talk to homeschoolers, that they have no social skills. As of today I have yet to see ONE public schooler make an EFFORT to talk to homeschoolers. Every one that I have met ignores us till WE try to talk to them OR they clam up when they find out that we're homschooled; that includes my cousins (who are all public schooled). You might think we're "weird", and have no social skills simply because you're not trying to be social yourself (that is the case where I am, I hope its not so everywhere).

 

All of this to say:

 

Most of us have a fantastic education experience

We CAN AND DO think for ourselves

AND WE ARE NOT social hermits......

 

Yes, I'm basing this on my experience. However I know approximately 300 homeschoolers, so I believe that I have a broader scope than many are privilaged with (no, I'm not saying that I'm smarter than anyone else).

 

Sorry for the long post, I hope I don't get in trouble with the moderators.....

The Saxman

 

DONT FLAME, that gets you nowhere.

[Spider AL]

Its not possible to teach something completely VOID of religion. If you don't teach one, you'll be teaching another. Evolution fits the definition of a religion, because science cannot PROVE that something has happend, it can only make observations on repeatable experiments. Thus, you must BELIEVE that evolution happend, if you are convinced that the evidence supports it. This makes Evolution a perfectly valid belief, NOT perfectly valid "science". (I'm STRESSING THIS POINT. Its up to you if YOU believe Evolution. Don't call me stupid for NOT believing it)

Science as a community has many dogmatic aspects, and one can equate it in that respect to religion. But one cannot define science or scientific theories literally as religion.

 

Religion is defined by the belief in the supernatural. Something OUTSIDE nature. Outside the physical universe, and independent of its laws.

 

There is nothing supernatural in science, merely a slew of unknowns.

 

Science observed properly contains no totally proven theories. Nothing is ever "truth". In religion there is always "truth".

 

Evolution is still a theory. In fact, it's slowly being replaced with modified theories that better explain the evidence. Theories are merely logical explanations that fit known facts, they do not rely on faith or anything close to religious belief. Since the concept of evolution was theoretical in nature and appeared to fit the available facts, it was therefore valid science.

 

Your points have now been logically disproven. By definition, you were incorrect. There is no argument, nor any loophole.

 

You may now either prove yourself to be open minded enough to accept this... by accepting it, or prove yourself to be a religious fundamentalist by stubbornly denying it.

 

Your answer and its tone will tell me to what degree you can think for yourself.

 

--

 

It is apparent to me now that in America, many children are homeschooled for vastly different reasons than in the UK where I live. In the UK, the majority of homeschooled children are educated at home because their parents fear for their development in our notoriously inadequate state school system. It seems to me now that in the US a huge number of homeschoolers are brought home so that they cannot be exposed to anything in the curriculum that contradicts the teachings of the bible.

 

This is a terrible, terrible thing. Reason is all that separates us from the beasts of the field, from rampant savagery. The fact that so many in both the US and Islamic countries are letting the thinking portion of their brain atrophy because of the incessant bead-rattling of religion is more than worrying, it's frightening. Frightening that not enough people have advanced nor evolved enough to escape the ever-present yoke of the ignorant: Dogma.

 

I simply stated that I knew more of the real world than the "average American" and I stand by those words,

I also stand by his words. Sadly, NEARLY every American I've ever met, though they've been friendly enough and articulate enough... has always had a limited idea about life outside the US. e.g: I know more about life in... Oh, South Africa, a place I've never visited, than the average American knows about life in the UK. Even though they're for example... tourists here for some time before I meet them.

 

They have also had a fairly arrogant idea that the US is the greatest country in the world, and that everyone should emulate it in all respects. No doubt many of you believe the same thing, after all it's been drummed into you since you were small. The statistics do not back you up, however.

[The Seeker]

Okay, I feel like about now is the time to put in my two cents.

 

Neither aspect of education can be tallied into a steriotypical category, because every single person will react differently to what and how they're taught.

 

I have been homeschooled my entire life, and feel that I am better for it. I have had very few home schooled friends, but never suffered for a lack of friends from public schools. In fact everyone who I consider a friend either is or was public schooled.

 

It's true that every home schooler I have met is very intelligent about their schooling. I haven't met any shut ins, but I know that they exist. I agree that home schooling for the sole purpose of brainwashing your children of independent thought is wrong in the worst way.

 

I find that with public schoolers, there are so many uneducated ineloquent, morons out there, that I can't help but feel pity. When I meet someone who can't form a single sentence without saying "like" twenty times or taking an "um" break between words, or hates reading "because it's stupid", I just can't help but shake my head in wonder. I know that not all public schoolers aren't like that, but just as with the few shut ins and outcast of home schools, the morons can cast a pretty bad shadow over public schools

 

My Mom home schooled me because she knew that she could give better than what was being taught in public schools. Which, I believe she was right. While I was in school, I always scored a grade or two ahead of where I was at the time. My social skills are just fine, and my entire family gets nothing but compliments on our behaviour and social skills. And this from people we just met.

 

Anyways, I know that public schools are easier to make friends in, but because I have no trouble around people in my own life, I can't see that I missed anything good.

 

I mean, the way I see it is I got a great education, have great friends, and a wonderful and open relationship with my Mom. I suppose that because I was taught in home, (and not influenced by peers) not to engage in pre-marital sex, drinking, smoking, and drugs, that you could call me brainwashed. Call it what you want, but I am 20 years old, and still have yet to get near flushing my life down the crapper.

 

Sorry for the long post, but this place started to sound like a political debate with the "I'm right!" "No, I"m Right!" conversations, and I needed to shake it up a bit with "Nobody's right, yet you both are" *Narrows eyes conspiratorily* Yeeeeahhhh, think about it.

[The Saxman]

Sigh....this debate is exactly why I was hesitant to post at all.......

 

I did not want the focus of my post to be creation vs. evolution.

 

I was merely stating my beliefs and how I arrived at them. I was not attacking evolution. However you have given no empirical evidence to support the "theory" of evolution, so you have NOT given a "logical" refutation of my statements.

 

This is how science works: Facts and phenomenon are observed in the universe. A group of related facts are compiled, and a Hypothisis is formed to try to explain the existance of them. If evidence is found to support this Hypothisis, it becomes a theory. As a general rule, scientists who believe in evolution take the oposite aproach. A group of individuals created an idea of how they BELIEVED the universe came to be, how they BELIEVED life formed, and are NOW searching for "facts" to back this IDEA up (missing links).

 

A man I admire for both his sense of humor, and depth of research in to this topic is Dr. Kent Hovind: http://www.drdino.com

 

Quote from myself: "Its up to you if YOU believe Evolution. Don't call me stupid for NOT believing it" End quote.

 

By your reply you have just implied that I am closeminded if I don't agree with you. There is nothing stubborn to hold to a belief that has evidence to back it up, none to refute it, and is at least marginally within the bounds of common sense.

 

Never once did I say that my parents taught me to think this way, never once did I say that my parents were Christians....Why are you assuming this? Do you believe that no "non-indoctrinated" person would ever become a Christian?

 

"Religious Fundamentalist" in its true sense is a title I wear proudly. I hold the fundamental beliefs of my religion as VERY valuable. And as much as you can see MY belief system through what I type, and how it affects my thoughts; I can see the same in your's. Example: "Reason is all that separates us from the beasts of the field, from rampant savagery."

 

I don't think (and it was never my intention) that I will "convert" anyone to my way of thinking by posting here. I was merely stating my beliefs. Don't suppose that you can convert me either. It is unreasonable of us BOTH to make demands of accepting what the other says in what short snippets this space allows. I have large amounts of evidence to suport my belief and have studied on BOTH sides of this subject. I'm sure you are thinking the same thing about your experiences.

 

What I consider to be an ultimate measure of open-mindedness, is whether a person can LISTEN to (not agree with, just listen to) another person's beliefs, without feeling the need to confront them or convince them, before they even KNOW them.

 

This topic doesn't belong in this thread, it belongs in a debate hall. I don't want the moderators to lock this thread down, so I won't reply to any further discusion of it here. If some one wants to start a thread somewhere where debating is allowed I'll join there.

 

The Saxman

[Spider AL]

Anyways, I know that public schools are easier to make friends in, but because I have no trouble around people in my own life, I can't see that I missed anything good.

A good point, and I think it prudent to add that it's the parents' responsibility to make sure their child has access to a social-life during homeschooling. This is why religiously-based homeschooling is a bad idea, hooooh yeah.

 

you have NOT given a "logical" refutation of my statements.

I have the answer I sought. Most saddening.

[Evil Dark Jedi]

Never been home-schooled. Ever. Though I do go to a school I am a person who lives on the internet. So I am home-schooled in a different way if you catch my drift..