Christians!!! *snarls*

[Kain]

Originally posted by InsaneSith

Sure I got things against christians, I have a problem with all religions. But there has only been one religion that comes to my door 4-5 times a week and pesters the hell out of me to accept a person as my saviour and even thrown their holy book at my f**king head. The day a muslim, jew, buddhist or hindu throws a holy book at my head and tries to convert me is the day I make a thread or comment about it.

 

Werd...

 

...except that I may be accepting Buddism...

 

...so once I have, I'm gonna come a knockin!

[Druid Bremen]

Originally posted by InsaneSith

I grow tired of this they're not christian BS. Christianity is about understanding and trying to follow in the path of christ, accepting him as your saviour. When you do that, you are christian. I grow tired of this apologetic BS of "oh they aren't christian, we're not like that we do this, not that"

Christians that hate on other christians make me sick. Just like the Muslims that hate on other muslims, and the Jews that hate on other jews.

 

 

I have yet to see or have a single jew or muslim or buddhist or hindu person go up to another persons, or my door and try to convert them and/or me.

 

It's always christians, they come to the door you tell them you haven't accepted christ as your personal saviour and they argue with you about why you should. I grow weary of having to explain myself to these badgery, annoying pests. If a jew or muslim or buddhist or hindu did it, I'd tell them the same thing.

 

Sure I got things against christians, I have a problem with all religions. But there has only been one religion that comes to my door 4-5 times a week and pesters the hell out of me to accept a person as my saviour and even thrown their holy book at my f**king head. The day a muslim, jew, buddhist or hindu throws a holy book at my head and tries to convert me is the day I make a thread or comment about it.

 

Hehe, that's the way I feel about it too. I completely detest the Christians who come up to me and tell me that I'm going to Hell for not accepting Christ. Why do I only say Christians? Because they're the only bloody religion which bangs on my door, sticks on me like a leech and starts pestering and pestering and pestering me with their rules and regulations when I'm perfectly happy with mine. He**, sometimes when I am forced to listen to them eagerly preaching about going to Christ, I feel as though I want to send them to Christ 50 years before their term is up. Oh and, Buddhists don't have holy books, because Gautama Siddhartha never wrote one, or, "god-breathed it into man". Unless you're talking about the impure Buddhists. What's all this god-breathing nonsense anyway?

[El Sitherino]

Originally posted by Druid Bremen

Buddhists don't have holy books, because Gautama Siddhartha never wrote one, or, "god-breathed it into man". Unless you're talking about the impure Buddhists. What's all this god-breathing nonsense anyway?

actually there are certain sects of the buddhist faith which have made books, and even regard buddha as a god. Also, the scriptures explaining the lifestyle of buddhism are considered in the term holy book.

 

<-- was a "freelance" buddhist for 3 years.

 

God-breathed is religious folks trying to give legitimacy to their bigotry

[Druid Bremen]

Originally posted by InsaneSith

actually there are certain sects of the buddhist faith which have made books, and even regard buddha as a god. Also, the scriptures explaining the lifestyle of buddhism are considered in the term holy book.

 

<-- was a "freelance" buddhist for 3 years.

 

God-breathed is religious folks trying to give legitimacy to their bigotry

 

Hmm, that's true, never thought of that. But the purer sects know that Buddha did not want himself regarded as a God, so they follow it, which is why I regard it as more of a philosophy than a religion, and why I follow it.

 

Ah, god-breathed is the thing where people say God told man about the bible thingie, eh?

[Spider AL]

I grow tired of this they're not christian BS. Christianity is about understanding and trying to follow in the path of christ, accepting him as your saviour. When you do that, you are christian.

Maybe in America. In my experience, being a Christian means observing Christian values. ie: If you throw a book at anyone's head, you're not being christian.

 

actually there are certain sects of the buddhist faith which have made books, and even regard buddha as a god.

This is not true Buddhism. Buddhism is about following in Buddha's path, not idolizing the man himself.

 

Sure there are breakaway sects of all religions that give those religions a bad name... Like hard-line muslims give Islam a bad name. And... America gives Christianity a bad name.

 

j/k

 

Sort of...

[El Sitherino]

Originally posted by Spider AL

Maybe in America. In my experience, being a Christian means observing Christian values. ie: If you throw a book at anyone's head, you're not being christian.

indeed.

 

Originally posted by Spider AL

This is not true Buddhism. Buddhism is about following in Buddha's path, not idolizing the man himself.

this is true to a point, as it does go against one of the many things buddha himself spoke against, but in essence them following the guidelines technically would make them buddhist, but not buddhism of the most true and purest form.

 

Originally posted by Spider AL

Sure there are breakaway sects of all religions that give those religions a bad name... Like hard-line muslims give Islam a bad name. And... America gives Christianity a bad name.

exactly.

 

Hard-line fundamental extremeists ruin the good in everything. But christianity has lately been running a muck. And Islam has started down that path too. I really genuinely fear for the planet, should more religions like this appear, or more religions follow this path, we're in for a hell of a global war.

[El Sitherino]

Originally posted by Druid Bremen

Hmm, that's true, never thought of that. But the purer sects know that Buddha did not want himself regarded as a God, so they follow it, which is why I regard it as more of a philosophy than a religion, and why I follow it.

in essence it is a philosophy. but in technical standings it's a religion but a deity-less one. There is still a figure-head, but not one with hocus pocus powers. Just one with incredible wisdom.

 

I have seperated myself from the classification of buddhism because technically it's designated as a religion, but I still live my life by it's standards.

Buddhism is about change, that's why I think it in all sense of the word is the purest and most near perfect "religion" in the world. It's about acceptance, responsiblity for ones self and the well being of those around you.

Originally posted by Druid Bremen

Ah, god-breathed is the thing where people say God told man about the bible thingie, eh?

Indeed. God supposedly whispered this great book (of many flaws) to many men over many different time periods.

[Spider AL]

Indeed. God supposedly whispered this great book (of many flaws) to many men over many different time periods.

I think I have discovered what separates us from fundamentalists. They have no BS-o-meter!

 

I have seperated myself from the classification of buddhism because technically it's designated as a religion, but I still live my life by it's standards.

It shouldn't be called a religion at all, as it involves no supernatural object of worship. Or worship at all. Or the supernatural.

 

But hey, people are silly eh.

[Druid Bremen]

Originally posted by InsaneSith

in essence it is a philosophy. but in technical standings it's a religion but a deity-less one. There is still a figure-head, but not one with hocus pocus powers. Just one with incredible wisdom.

 

I have seperated myself from the classification of buddhism because technically it's designated as a religion, but I still live my life by it's standards.

Buddhism is about change, that's why I think it in all sense of the word is the purest and most near perfect "religion" in the world. It's about acceptance, responsiblity for ones self and the well being of those around you.

 

I consider philosophies (in which I include Buddhism, Confucianism, and Taoism) the better ways to lead your life, because it does not put into one's mind a sky daddy residing in the clouds who will spank you (for eternity) if you do badly, and reward you if you do well. Some people are afraid of these Gods, and choose to follow the rules, in fear of the "spankings". I prefer true motivation to do good, like philosophies, because they do not include any rewards at the end of the day.

[SkinWalker]

Originally posted by Spider AL

This is not true Buddhism. Buddhism is about following in Buddha's path, not idolizing the man himself.

 

They're both "true" Buddhists. One is Theravada Buddhism and the other is Mahayana Buddhism.

 

The former is also known as "little raft" and encompasses a minority of Buddhists. It's the hardest path to follow and requires stricter demands than the latter, the "big raft," in which believers can more easily follow the example of Buddha.

 

To the Theravada, Buddha was a great teacher and a saint. prayer is typically not practiced, there is little or no ritual, bodhi (wisdom) is the main feature of enlightenment, and there is little emphasis on the metaphysical. Theravadists believe that there are no gods to help us and that each person must work out his or her own answers and salvation.

 

To the Mahayana, Buddha was a savior and is lord. Prayer is encouraged and importance is placed upon ritual. Karma (compassion) is the important feature of enlightenment and the power of god is everywhere and is available to anyone. The individual is connected to all life and the metaphysical is stressed.

 

Constant commitment is necessary for the Theravadist and is usually considered the way of monks and nuns. The religion is available to all among the Mahayanists and more accessable with less commitment.

 

Thus: "little raft" and "big raft."

 

A study of the 8-fold path as part of the 4 Noble Truths and a decision to live one's life in this manner would rival even the best of christians as to who lived in the more humble and righteous manner.

[Spider AL]

They're both "true" Buddhists. One is Theravada Buddhism and the other is Mahayana Buddhism.

This is not an issue of personal perspective. "Buddhism" implies following the path of Buddha, not revering buddha as a deity. Buddha, in his teachings, specifically scotched any idea of himself as a deity to be prayed to. One cannot pray to buddha any more than one can "teach" Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do.

 

If I regarded Buddha as a holy cabbage that told me to eat cabbage at every meal, I would not be practicing true buddhism. Likewise, the big raft is merely a total cop-out so that the majority of people uninterested in attaining nirvana can feel better about themselves when they slap some incense in a bucket twice a month and call themselves buddhists.

[El Sitherino]

Originally posted by Druid Bremen

I prefer true motivation to do good, like philosophies, because they do not include any rewards at the end of the day.

well buddhism does give you enlightenment when you find peace within yourself. This could be considered the ultimate reward, but it takes personal sacrifice and hard work, and multiple lifetimes.

 

The point of buddhism is to show that freeing oneself from all desire is the way to true happiness. This doesn't mean one can't have sex, but one cannot give in to lust, one must learn to suppress lust. Lust is one of the hardest desires to suppress because it comes from within, and costs no money to obtain.

 

In the end buddhism is about change, changing to make yourself and all others happy. To think of others before yourself. To change so that we can all be at peace.

[Druid Bremen]

Originally posted by Spider AL

This is not an issue of personal perspective. "Buddhism" implies following the path of Buddha, not revering buddha as a deity. Buddha, in his teachings, specifically scotched any idea of himself as a deity to be prayed to. One cannot pray to buddha any more than one can "teach" Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do.

 

If I regarded Buddha as a holy cabbage that told me to eat cabbage at every meal, I would not be practicing true buddhism. Likewise, the big raft is merely a total cop-out so that the majority of people uninterested in attaining nirvana can feel better about themselves when they slap some incense in a bucket twice a month and call themselves buddhists.

 

I agree with your statement, but you know, many are unaware of Theravada Buddhism. They think that their own way of worship is what every Buddhist around the world does. Oh and, I didn't really understand the one about Buddha being a holy cabbage, unless you mean that you don't eat cabbage for every meal.

 

Originally posted by InsaneSith

well buddhism does give you enlightenment when you find peace within yourself. This could be considered the ultimate reward, but it takes personal sacrifice and hard work, and multiple lifetimes.

 

The point of buddhism is to show that freeing oneself from all desire is the way to true happiness. This doesn't mean one can't have sex, but one cannot give in to lust, one must learn to suppress lust. Lust is one of the hardest desires to suppress because it comes from within, and costs no money to obtain.

 

In the end buddhism is about change, changing to make yourself and all others happy. To think of others before yourself. To change so that we can all be at peace.

 

Hehe, when I spoke of reward, I meant like, one's soul going to Heaven or something. I don't believe in souls and Heaven and Hell, but I do believe in inner peace and understanding.

[SkinWalker]

Anthropologically speaking, the "big raft" is probably a method of reaching out to the larger populace when it became apparent tha that the stricter version of Theravadism wasn't followed en masse because of the extreme nature of the belief.

 

Indeed, there is a bit of research (Pascal Boyer, Villayanor Ramachandran (sp?)) that indicates religious thought is hard-wired in H. sapiens, making it difficult for counterintuitive concepts of "no deity" or "no god" to provide salvation or eternal life far too difficult for populations where pantheons of deities exist to explain, give comfort, etc. (per Durkheim, Tyler, Freud, et al).

 

Meeting these populations half-way with a deity and rituals offered a way to get much of the Buddhist message to the masses.

 

But it's really not up to us to assign labels to populations of people who already have their own perspective of who they are. They see themselves as "true" Buddhists in the same way as Catholics see themselves as "true" Christians. In the end, they're all just a superstitious lot.

[Spider AL]

Oh and, I didn't really understand the one about Buddha being a holy cabbage

Oh it was just saying: "if my idea of buddhism was that buddha was a holy cabbage, well... that wouldn't be true buddhism. Nor is the big raft truly buddhism."

 

but you know, many are unaware of Theravada Buddhism. They think that their own way of worship is what every Buddhist around the world does.

Yeah, sad innit.

[El Sitherino]

it is sad, but I haven't seen it reach the scale that christianity and islam have on condemning those that don't follow their ideal of christianity or islam. Not to say it doesn't happen, but it doesn't happen on the scale of those two. I'm not even touching the jews. I've seen some jewish people get into a big ass fight over different opinions on what makes a jew and what's key to being a real jew.

 

 

those guys are pretty vicious to eachother <_<

[Spider AL]

those guys are pretty vicious to eachother <_<

Not to mention the Palestinians...

 

That's another debate.

[El Sitherino]

Originally posted by Spider AL

Not to mention the Palestinians...

 

That's another debate.

grawr, you just like doing that to me don't you

[CapNColostomy]

Originally posted by SkinWalker

I'm so glad that the United States didn't have to endure similar extremist attitude at any point in its development as a democracy. I'm sure xianity wasn't cited as a justification for kidnappings, lynchings, and mutilations bottom of page.

 

Ah yes, sarcasm! I have some experience with that myself. Allow me to demonstrate:

Are you trying to imply that because blacks were lynched in this country, that it's perfectly fine to behead people today in another country? If that's the case, why not just bring back lynching too?

 

And for you to say that there is something wrong with Christian missionary humanitarian work, because as they're feeding and clothing people, they're talking about their God, is laughable. You make it sound like people are "forced" to listen to religious babble, and if they don't convert, they're made to sit in a corner naked and starving while the nitwit, irrational, herd mentality folks live in hog heaven, getting fat. Simply not true. But truely laughable. And BFD if it is true. It's their food. If I have a sack of rice, and you're hungry and want to eat it, but want to just grab the food and scram without hearing a word from me, then piss on you, I say. Don't eat. Sit in your corner. Quote some nonsense statistics to yourself. And by all means continue your "rational", (however hunger induced short) "scientific" existence. The cult and I will be over here eating.

[SkinWalker]

Originally posted by CapNColostomy

Are you trying to imply that because blacks were lynched in this country, that it's perfectly fine to behead people today in another country? If that's the case, why not just bring back lynching too?

 

What I was trying to imply was that the argument that Islam is the reason why people are brutal toward the innocent is a fallacy. The reality is that it is one group's ability to justify brutality for the greater good of the group. When it comes to this kind of brutality, religion is only a means of perversion to add to the justification.

 

Originally posted by CapNColostomy

And for you to say that there is something wrong with Christian missionary humanitarian work, because as they're feeding and clothing people, they're talking about their God, is laughable.

 

I've yet to see any missionary "humanitarian" work that didn't have the ultimate goal of brainwashing the indigenous population with their own brand of cult. You show me one xian "humanitarian" organization that thinks it helping a region, and I'll gladly debunk you of the delusion that their cause is altruistic. If I can't, I'll say so.

[CapNColostomy]

Originally posted by SkinWalker

You show me one xian "humanitarian" organization that thinks it helping a region, and I'll gladly debunk you of the delusion that their cause is altruistic. If I can't, I'll say so.

 

I'm sure I can say without hesitation that they all "think" they're helping whatever region. So no need to show you a specific one. So debunk away. Or not, I'm thinking. As far as your opinion on whether or not they actually help by feeding and clothing people, I fail to see what grounds for debate you have to stand on. Feeding people helps people. Clothing people helps people.

[Kurgan]

Originally posted by InsaneSith

it is sad, but I haven't seen it reach the scale that christianity and islam have on condemning those that don't follow their ideal of christianity or islam. Not to say it doesn't happen, but it doesn't happen on the scale of those two. I'm not even touching the jews. I've seen some jewish people get into a big ass fight over different opinions on what makes a jew and what's key to being a real jew.

 

 

those guys are pretty vicious to eachother <_<

 

I know what you mean there. It's really sad because at least some Jews do consider themselves a "race," and it's comparable to some folks in the American "Black Community" who get into arguments about "not being black enough" etc. This is simply racism, and very sad indeed.

[Kurgan]

Originally posted by CapNColostomy

I'm sure I can say without hesitation that they all "think" they're helping whatever region. So no need to show you a specific one. So debunk away. Or not, I'm thinking. As far as your opinion on whether or not they actually help by feeding and clothing people, I fail to see what grounds for debate you have to stand on. Feeding people helps people. Clothing people helps people.

 

Guessing people's motives is a tricky business I agree.

 

I've heard the opinion expressed that ALL humans are always self-centered, no matter what. No exceptions. With such a mindset is it impossible to show them that Xians (followers of X, that is, Xianity, of which I am a member) or any other group is really doing "good."

 

Of course, a question put to those folks would be this:

 

Does it matter WHY somebody is doing good in the world?

 

If Hitler, instead of killing millions of people helped millions of people and took care of widows and orphans and fed the poor, would it matter if he was a total jerk in his mind?

 

Maybe that's a bad example. Bill Gates is hated by a lot of people, but he gave 3 billion dollars to charity. 3 BILLION! That's more money than most people see in their entire lives, including celebrities! Even if he has tons more money and he spends it all selfishly, he still did some good for the world, and in fact more good than a lot of people could. I'd hazard to forecast that none of the 60,000+ members of this forum, COMBINED will ever make as much money in their lifetimes as Bill Gates has given to charity. That doesn't mean he's a perfect person that must be loved by all, but why would a person want to argue that his act means nothing to the world around him?

 

So in the end, if one wants to argue that Xians are doing good just because they think it will win them converts and because God will let them go to heaven as a reward for what they do on earth, and therefore they are self-centered, all that says is that they are admitting that they (those non-Xians attacking Xianity) too are self centered, and (I'm guessing) that they (non-Xians) are "not hypocritical" because they (non-Xians) admit that they do it out of self-interest.

 

But again, you can easily define everything as self interest, as an ingrained biological control, in which case there really is no argument either way. Everybody is the same. I'd also argue that just as all Xians are not the same, all atheists are not the same. There is no monolithic "Xian" or "Atheist" mind that can be easily attacked and knocked down in favor of the other. Ditto for any other group you can find. There is always a spectrum of belief and behavior, since that's how different people can be.

 

Xians aren't the only people who do chartiable things. And to those that do, I am glad for the good it does. If atheists give to charity, that's great too. Their contribution isn't any less because they don't share my beliefs. But there seems to be a double-standard here. "If people in my group do something good it's good. If people not in my group do something good it's not good and they must have a negative ulterior motive." I would discourage such a belief since it's an unfounded assumption that assumes ill-intent where none need exist.

 

PS: I assume that Skinwalker's gross generalizations and baiting are in no way intended to draw me into a debate with him.

; )

[Spider AL]

followers of X, that is, Xianity, of which I am a member

Could you clarify, are you Christian and using shorthand, or a member of the newly made-up online religion also called Xianity, or something else?

[SkinWalker]

Originally posted by Spider AL

Could you clarify, are you Christian and using shorthand, or a member of the newly made-up online religion also called Xianity, or something else?

 

Definition #3 at this link....

 

"Abbreviation for the normal English word "Christian." Not a pejorative, the word often is used in online chatrooms, bulletin boards and E-mail. Sometimes erroneously appears as Xtian"