Drazin Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 The Exile Served Revan because he thought Revans Cause was the right thing to do. It was through that war that he had to cut his ties and then be exiled by the council. Which ultimately made him stronger. It isnt a question of who is a better leader. The question is who is stronger in the force. The Council also said that these new Sith are attacking through the force, which is something learned of you, something learned of the Mandalorian Wars. In other words, you are the Badass equivelent of Darth Nihilus and so badass, that even Nihilus can't hurt you through the force. The Exile draws others to him through the force, something you cannot resist because you don't even know its happening. The Force makes it happen because the Exile is like a Vaccum, sucking it to him. Revan would be just another Lacky willing to die for the Exile unknowingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Smaug Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 I think Revan is the stronger...He is more legendary and stuff...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkLordOnoga Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 Originally posted by Darth Smaug I think Revan is the stronger...He is more legendary and stuff...... Yes that's true. For however long they make Kotor series games, Revan will be mentioned. If it wasn't for Revan, the Sith never would have became as strong as they did with the Star Forges' power. Leadership wise definetly goes to Revan, but if the two dueled, it'd probably end up in a draw..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boba Rhett Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 I wanna know who's going to be the third party in this equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmperorJello Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 Revan would be just another Lacky willing to die for the Exile unknowingly. Fascinating, since the Exile was Revan's lackey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebighirt Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 Just curious, do you think that Revan doesn't know about this special ability (force "leaching")? After all, he did create the Sith Assassins, according to Chronicles. He probably knew about this power all along, and therefore would be able to "block" it. Furthermore, if he didn't know, he has been searching for his identity/former power for the past 5 years, you'd think he would have stumbled upon some mention of the Exile's ability in texts/artifacts/holocrons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebighirt Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 Reduce the choices? No! I don't want any storyline that you have to butcher previous storylines to follow They're going to have to butcher previous storylines, do you realize how convulated/long/how much potential for complete chaos would occur if they attempted to let you choose whether the Revan and Exile where each either male/female, dark/light? If my math is correct, that's over 16 or so possiblites, imagine all the changes they'd have to make to the story line/dialogue/scenarios in the game! It'd be a wreck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLM Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 Why are people assuming that since the Exile served under Revan he must be weaker? They were JEDI remember? This isn't some sith style hierarchy where the strongest rules and everyone underneath would stab thier own mother for power. Revan was a superb leader, a popular and well admired Jedi, it's no surprise that others would choose to follow him. The exile followed Revan for his own reasons, not neccesarily because he was weak. As far as the strength of each one goes, at the end of the game, I believe that they're about equal. I think the exile may have the edge in pure combat, but Revan is the better strategist, statesman etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmperorJello Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 AHA! Thank you HK-47 for telling me the truth... Well, we learn a lot of things from HK-47. Mostly how Revan had completely figured out the Jedi and how to destroy them. Suffice to say, he created all that psychological warfare that destroyed a Jedi's ability to maintain their inner calm. This wasn't to convert them, for Sith needed concentration as well--this was to destroy them. HK also informs us that the key weakness of the Jedi were that they were not human. They denied their connection to life--and were unable to experience it or even know that they denied it. He said that some could make a greater connection to the Force. Then HK wonders why the Exile doesn't know of this already. HK tells us that Revan knew of the Exile's ability and felt sorry for him, because the Exile had the ability to connect to others--but he left himself exposed and weakened by these bonds, because the bonds he formed left him dependant on them. Revan truly pitied the Exile. Also, Malachor V was intended not to defeat the Mandalorians--but to destroy his Jedi opponents mentally. Revan was the Dark Lord of the Sith FAR before then, and so were the majority of his "Jedi" servants--though they thought themselves Jedi. The Exile knew this too. Revan also no longer had any use for the Jedi after Malachor, knowing that the Exile's reckless destruction was not enough for his needs. EDIT: Revan also called it a vulnerability of the Exile's. The bond was a weakness that caused doubts and dependancy. As for leaching... it's considered a weakness among Force users. Mara Jade of the EU was similar. She was a fantastic agent of the Emperor, since she depended on him for power--but when he was gone, she was nothing. She only later gained power through an association with Luke Skywalker. It is similar for the Exile: without Revan, or Kreia, or other Force users... the Exile is nothing. Even before the Exile broke the Council's wishes, he was known as a mediocre Jedi. He was used and played by Lord Revan. He was used and played by Lady Traya. He is nothing but an instrument, and a tool. He has no value of his own and he is weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Supra Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 wow, thet was helpful indeed, I went as a darkside female, but I hadn't enough influence over HK-47... but that dialogue would worth it.... Long life to everyone's favorite meatbag-killer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Supra Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 wow, thet was helpful indeed, I went as a darkside female, but I hadn't enough influence over HK-47... but that dialogue would worth it.... Long life to everyone's favorite meatbag-killer! Could you please tell us, in which direct situations did you gain influence on him.? please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmperorJello Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 Be a mean person and kill things. Kill the droid dealer on Dantooine when you confront him with a hydrospanner. Refuse Azgul's offer and say "die mercenary scum." ETC. Just... any chance you get of brutally killing someone, do it. It makes him really happy. Oh, and don't have someone like Kreia, Handmaiden, or anyone else who would raise a stink about it. If you have to, only use HK-47 when you're going to murder someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Stalin Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 The exile is not tied to the force so he can't really be considered strong in the force. Besides, Revan and the Exile were jedi Knights, so he wasn't really revan's lackey and those are the ranks that matter. Because almost any jedi assumes the role of general automatically, so military rank in quite void, besides he followed revan because it was revan's idea. The exile gets stronger for each person he/she kills (literally), while revan doesn't. The exile and revan are like opposite poles, but the exile has a greater advantage than any jedi. Anyway, who ever said revan was a better leader is wrong, we all know the exile's gift is to be a leader, that was why he was a huge threat to the Mandalorians. He was as feared as Revan, and the main reason revan was feared more was because he was the military leader. But the exile was a natural leader, even Vrook was somewhat jealous of him when he was a knight, because people did what the exile did. i would say the exile would beat revan IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Stalin Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 Originally posted by EmperorJello AHA! Thank you HK-47 for telling me the truth... Well, we learn a lot of things from HK-47. Mostly how Revan had completely figured out the Jedi and how to destroy them. Suffice to say, he created all that psychological warfare that destroyed a Jedi's ability to maintain their inner calm. This wasn't to convert them, for Sith needed concentration as well--this was to destroy them. HK also informs us that the key weakness of the Jedi were that they were not human. They denied their connection to life--and were unable to experience it or even know that they denied it. He said that some could make a greater connection to the Force. Then HK wonders why the Exile doesn't know of this already. HK tells us that Revan knew of the Exile's ability and felt sorry for him, because the Exile had the ability to connect to others--but he left himself exposed and weakened by these bonds, because the bonds he formed left him dependant on them. Revan truly pitied the Exile. Also, Malachor V was intended not to defeat the Mandalorians--but to destroy his Jedi opponents mentally. Revan was the Dark Lord of the Sith FAR before then, and so were the majority of his "Jedi" servants--though they thought themselves Jedi. The Exile knew this too. Revan also no longer had any use for the Jedi after Malachor, knowing that the Exile's reckless destruction was not enough for his needs. EDIT: Revan also called it a vulnerability of the Exile's. The bond was a weakness that caused doubts and dependancy. As for leaching... it's considered a weakness among Force users. Mara Jade of the EU was similar. She was a fantastic agent of the Emperor, since she depended on him for power--but when he was gone, she was nothing. She only later gained power through an association with Luke Skywalker. It is similar for the Exile: without Revan, or Kreia, or other Force users... the Exile is nothing. Even before the Exile broke the Council's wishes, he was known as a mediocre Jedi. He was used and played by Lord Revan. He was used and played by Lady Traya. He is nothing but an instrument, and a tool. He has no value of his own and he is weak. The exile's power comes from the people that he kills and the death he causes, he can gain more power from nearby force sensitives. The exile is like Nihilus but without the weakness. The exile was used by revan, and revan was also used by the jedi council, in an even worse way, so that makes revan a bigger tool. Revan called it a vulnerability because he didn't know of Malachor yet. Revan underestimated the exile as well as every other Jedi, especially Vrook, the exile has been a very difficult person to read. Besides, the exile was able to walk away from Revan's temptation something that no other Jedi could do. So he was seriously underestimated. Revan pitied the exile because of the consequences of all the bonds being severed at once. Which is what happened at malachor, the exile survived the bonds of all the life that died on that planet, so revan would take back his pity when he saw the exile survived that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Stalin Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 And people always seem to mention revan being the "power" of the force. But considering the same person that said that says you are greater than revan makes that argument void. but everyone seems to avoid that part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Stalin Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 Originally posted by thebighirt Just curious, do you think that Revan doesn't know about this special ability (force "leaching")? After all, he did create the Sith Assassins, according to Chronicles. He probably knew about this power all along, and therefore would be able to "block" it. Furthermore, if he didn't know, he has been searching for his identity/former power for the past 5 years, you'd think he would have stumbled upon some mention of the Exile's ability in texts/artifacts/holocrons. Revan didn't create those sith assassins, the exile did. Besides, you don't gain the exile's ability by reading tomes, and you don't learn how to block it either by reading tomes, you have to have gotten the gift somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Stalin Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 Originally posted by Nrak Ujhade well yes the exiles "unique abilities" are very powerful indeed but I would definatly consider him the death of the force. Revan would be more like the life of the force as said above. Its just what I think cuz Revan had the galaxies at his kness but G0T0 mentioned that many of the core worlds were still intact, Revan seemed to have brought a balance for a time being about the jedi civil war. Then when Revan is gone and the balance is unchecked the Exile runs in and puts it back in check Although if u ask me I truely think they are both Darkside I would also have to say Revan is a Counsler/Sith Lord/Jedi Master. He could persuade wounded soldiers to charge into battle to their deaths and this helped him win many battles. That is Revan's "unique ability" he is far above a natural born leader you could say. The Exile if you ask me would be a guardian/maurader/weapons master becuase there are so many situations in the game where you can mention slaughter, call of battle, all things guardian:D its all down to opinion in the end anyways but if you ask me I think the 2 well be joining forces in the next installment, for good or for evil. and yes my answer would be Revan Revan COULD NOT persuade wounded soldiers to fight to the death, only the exile could do that, and that is the exile's gift. The Exile was feared because he could make people fight to the death for him, you even witness this at the tomb in Korriban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adey12 Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 I think i would want Reven to lead and army and the Exile to lead a speacil group of elite men. With Reven V Exile i believe that the Exile would win since Light always beats the Dark in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobo Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 IMO The Exile is stronger, 1st, Hes your Charachter, not someone else lol 2nd, Hes just... cooler lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuFerret Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Kreia compares both Revan and the Exile together concerning their leadership abilities. Kreia however never ever implies she was ever JEALOUS of Revan, as she was of the Exile. For the simple reason that what the Exile does, others do willingly. Revan was charismatic, and a manipulator. This has been stated many times in both KOTOR 1 and 2. Kreia was obviously a good teacher in that regard. As was stated elsewhere, Kreia herself states whom the stronger is. If there's one thing Kreia doesn't lie about, it's respected power. And when I say power, I mean the subtle things, not the overt stuff. The whole premise of KOTOR 2 is the formation of echos within the force. Something the Exile can do with ease, that Revan was only able to accomplish with Malachor V (which was actually Bao Dur's work.) Game mechanics aside, Revan is simply just another Jedi who has a higher mastery of the force then most. Revan's notoriety came from his cunning, but also his fall to the darkside, using equal atrocities back at the Mandalorians. The Exile is truly something special and unique. Just because Revan led the war against the Mandalorians, doesn't mean Revan was/is the most powerful. I kind of think of Revan more like Agememnon, and the Exile more like Achilles. Ironically, if you step back and take a good look at the whole theme of KOTOR 1, it's Redemption. Taking this into account, Kreia not only sought someone to be her ultimate pupil, but another she could corrupt to the darkside, having lost her first student to redemption. This really puts KOTOR 2 into context if you get to the LS ending. "The Force has a will of it's own" would surely be quite annoying for a manipulator such as Kreia, if balance was brought back with Revan's redemption. Imagine the spite she would have. Overall I liked KOTOR 2 much much more then the first one. And not merely because of the new additions. Kreia plays the perfect role and is definitely the most memorable NPC I've seen in an RPG in a long, long time. Her ambition makes Revan's look like child's play. And most importantly, she did not need the Star Forge to do, what Revan and Malak could not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Supra Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 I agree with you, Exile is simply more powerful than Revan, It's very cryptic, and mythological, it causes you to think and reflect a dozen times, that's why KOTOR II stroy is far more "interesting" than KOTOR1 but much, much more enygmatic, and not so understandable. but the people's allegiancy to Revan is born from Revan's charisma and capacity of persuasion, not like people "linked" to Exile. Revan, he is maybe smarter than the Exile, and even more mature, but the Exile, she is more powerful, if she wants it, she can destroy the Force, destroy all the life in the galaxy; so, yeah It's kinda of Agammemnon and Achilles that way. And I think, wheter you picked Revan or Exile as good or bad, in the end they have to balance the other (Exile's) path, so the Force can balance itself It's very mysterious some ways, and that's why I think KOTOR 2 Story is more "interesting" that K1, although much more tanlged and not understandable sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gall_4185 Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Personally I think Revan is stronger in the force. Although the Exile chose to abandon the force,Revan fought back from having his mind destroyed,to not only make a difference in the Jedi Civil war but to regain the force and redeem himself.(I played light side in KOTORI) As for those who have said that Kreia claims that the Exile was stronger than any she'd trained before. This statement didn't seem like a true comparrison. Kreia had seen the Exile through his entire pth back to the force,had even manipulated him down that path but She trained Revan at a young age,and from my understanding met with him again after either his fall or after his redemption. But in either case Revan was only on his way to realising his potential,he still has his time before going off to the unknown regions and his time there to reach it. If the Exile feeds off his connections with others,surely Revan would have picked up on that. He always struck me as the kind of commander who would know the strengths and weaknesses of his troops. Malak's failing was his lack of true tactics adn Revan knew how to turn that to his advantage so it stands to reason he'd have figured out something similar for the Exile Just my two cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drazin Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 If the Exile feeds off his connections with others,surely Revan would have picked up on that. He always struck me as the kind of commander who would know the strengths and weaknesses of his troops. The Exile did not have this ability until After he left the war behind him and cut ties with the Force. Revan would not have known of this until later. Revan did know of his ability to create Bonds, which is why the Exile was Revan's Best General and most feared commander in battle. The Mandalorians confirm this. Revan even pitied the Exile for his ablities, but would surely think twice about that now that the Exile is back and his connections are even stronger. Even Revan would find himself following the Exile to certain death without even knowing it perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellderon Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Whoever wrote that "wound in the Force" crap should be shot, hanged and runed over by a buick.. the same goes for whoever wrote about them being opposite poles and would fight at the end beyond the Rim... I say Revan all the way. He's a more interestng and BELIVABE charachter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boba Rhett Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Ah. Right. The wound thing isn't really believable, juxtaposed to Revan's story. Thanks for straightening that out for us. I guess sometimes we just plum forget we're dealing with reality here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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