Concept of "ownership" beyond Earth

[Dagobahn Eagle]

I read a Science Illustrated/Illustrert Vitenskap* article on Extra-Terrestrial law some years ago, and I've been interested in "Interstellar law" for some time.

 

Basically, everything a certain altitude over Earth is no-man's land. This was "automatically" estabilished when probes and satellites started to orbit Earth and no one protested (weaker, poorer countries did, hoping to make a profit by selling permission to use their airspace, but they were ignored). You can't own land beyond the Earth, you can't enforce laws there, and you can't claim ground there.

 

Certain Web sites† and firms do sell property on the Moon and on other planets, but according to laws and treaties, you can't own pieces of Mars, the Moon, Venus, or Uranus, even if you've been there (Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin could not claim the landing site of Apollo 11 for the USA). So to put it simply: Don't buy a Lunar crater. Not only do nations have no obligation to recognize your claim (yes, the USA can build a Martian colony on top of "your" lot), and second, the people you buy the lot from are no more entitled to it than you are, meaning that you've got no reason to not simply ineffectively claim a crater on the Moon yourself instead of buying one from a firm that's ineffectively claimed it. It works the same way as the Antarctica treaties: National and private claims to Antarctica are not recognized by the treaty countries, so while a lot of countries, from Norway to Britain and Russia, have claimed large pieces of the continent for themselves (take a Norwegian atlas and look up Queen Maud's Land, and it'll have "Norway" in fine print below it;)).

 

So the reason Planetary Investments can claim that

Mr. D. Hope has been in the business of selling Lunar Property for over 23 years. In all this time, and more than 2 million customers later (and increasing rapidly), we have never had a single unsatisfied customer

is that no one yet has told these customers that their claim is void and set a mine or hotel or research centre or strip club on top of the "satisfied customer's" property. These people are "satisfied" because the consequences of their actions haven't arisen (yet), like I can be "satisfied" with my life vest that doesn't work if I'm never going to go near a body of water with it on, or with my virus program on a computer that'll never be exposed to a single virus.

 

But the point of the article was that in the future, if/when mining and colonization of space becomes a reality (please do not start do discuss whether this can or should happen in this thread: Start a separate thread should you be interested), laws and regulations are required. Otherwise, you can simply walk into a rival mining colony and steal whatever they've extracted, for example.

 

Discuss (as if I need to tell you).

 

Foot notes

* Science Illustrated (site in Norwegian)

†Google Search [and] Planetary Investments

[Tyrion]

That's exactly what I thought; the only way to control property is to have power over it, and you do not have any power in space. You don't have legal power or physical power, it's just worthless.

[Samuel Dravis]

I don't know why you'd want a piece of a planet or moon anyway. For mining, the asteriods are where it's at.

[coupes.]

Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle

Certain Web sites† and firms do sell property on the Moon and on other planets, but according to laws and treaties, you can't own pieces of Mars, the Moon, Venus, or Uranus, even if you've been there (Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin could not claim the landing site of Apollo 13 for the USA).

I'm sure you meant Apollo 11, Apollo 13 never landed on the moon.

[Breton]

Hopefully, by the time space colonization and mining becomes a reality, the world will be one country, which can claim space rescources for the good of all.

 

If not, I have a nasty feeling we might see one hell of lawsuits and judical complexity, proceeding to conflicts and horrific wars.

 

Excuse my socialist opinions, but space in the hands of big, greedy corporations is a scenario I wouldn't want to see.

[kipperthefrog]

If you realy want to waste your money...

[Dagobahn Eagle]

I'm sure you meant Apollo 11, Apollo 13 never landed on the moon.

I need a picture for "Silliest mistake ever!". Like there are pictures for "this is one idiotic thread"...

 

About the world being united, what exactly would that solve? No one can own land beyond Earth, one country or a group of countries. It's that law that most likely requires altering, not the distribution of nations among the people of the globe.

 

Oh, and this isn't a "Unified Earth - Pros and Cons" thread. Please don't turn it into one;).

[toms]

I'm pretty sure those "buy a piece of the moon for your girlfriend" things state that they aren't real, just a cool certificate etc...

 

As for the laws concerning space, i'm sure some of those big countries or corporation will start pushing through some laws once it becomes financially in their interest to do so.

 

It might end up a lot like the colonisation of america, where all the little people who thought they owned the places where they lived suddenly get a bit of a shock when the government sells the land to "official owners".

 

Still, its going to leave room for lots of the "wild west in space... miners rebel against evil corporations" plots.... just like computer games

[El Sitherino]

If we can't own property in space, why can we own land on Earth, it's a ball in space just like the moon or mars. If we can own property on Earth, other surfaces in space should be fair game.