El Sitherino Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Except he didn't. Force skills != Saber skills, therefore commanderobiwans comment wasn't relevant. So yeah, stupid question my ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze629 Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Earlier in this thread several times, people gave sources that said Mace had been bested by two opponents: Yoda and Dooku. I would say this is evidence enough that Yoda is better. Quote: "This is the moment that defines Mace Windu. Not his countless victories in battle, nor the numberless battles his diplomacy has avoided. Not his penetrating intellect, or his talents with the Force, or his UNMATCHED skills with the lightsaber. Not his dedication to the Jedi Order, or his devotion to the Republic that he serves." -----Excerpt taken directly from Star Wars Episode III Revenge of the Sith by Matthew Stover(Hardcover Edition)Page: 309 After recently going back and reading the book again, I would say that this is evidence enough that what I have stated was true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurai DD Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 I think Mace is the best lightsaber master. He is more controlled, and only got killed because he didn't expect Ani's surprise. He would have finished Palpy, while Yoda could not. Yoda is better in the force, but were talking about swordsmanship here. Mace's the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted October 30, 2005 Author Share Posted October 30, 2005 @ Blaze: Unmatched is a figure of speech, meaning almost nobody is as good as him. Yes, the book is canon, but it's not by how the author uses description. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze629 Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 LOL. Unmatched means EXACTLY that. UNMATCHED. No two ways about it. Definition: Without equal or rival; peerless: example: unmatched skill. You wanted sources. I gave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted October 30, 2005 Author Share Posted October 30, 2005 That's what Yoda has to say about whether he's the best or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurai DD Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 Well, I think Yoda would actually say SUTFYM, not STFU. (Shut Up The F**k You Must ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobQel-Droma Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 Mace is the best swordsman. Darth Moeller, just because Mace was defeated by Yoda doesn't mean a thing. Yoda was the more powerful, that says nothing about his Natural skill with a saber. Mace has always been described as "unmatched" and "best living lightsaber fighter", which is clear evidence don't you think? I have no clue what you are trying to get across by the fact that Mace was bested by two people. That doesn't mean that they were better than Mace at saber fighting, they were just more powerful overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 Um...everyone keeps going 'Oh, teh Mace r teh beetn Palpy in duel fiteing so he r teh best0r!'. Nobody seems to remember that Palpy got SERIOUSLY desperate fighting Yoda and decided to start throwing those Senate Chamber lifts at Yoda in an attempt to break the melee. Then Yoda decided to do the same back and Palpy got totally desperate. Luck saved Palpatine's ass. Nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted October 30, 2005 Author Share Posted October 30, 2005 Generally if you beat someone in a fair one on one saber fight, that means you are better than them @RobQuel-Droma. They use the word bested because out of the 2 fighters, Yoda is the best (well actually the correct word is better but lets not start on proper grammar). And like Kain said, Palpy had to retreat and start throwing the chairs at Yoda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze629 Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Yea whatever Moeller. I'll take my source over the EU thanx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Mace is the best swordsman. Darth Moeller, just because Mace was defeated by Yoda doesn't mean a thing. He he! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Yea whatever Moeller. I'll take my source over the EU thanx. Well lets see, the book is derived from the movie - not the other way around. And since in the Data Bank - which anything from the movies is from George Lucas himself - says that Mace was Yoda's lesser, I'd say your source is wrong. Fades back: The hook: TWO POINTS IN THE FACE OF THE OBNOXIOUS BOOKWORM!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze629 Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Lucas does not recognize the EU as Star Wars history and that information comes from the EU Kain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted October 31, 2005 Author Share Posted October 31, 2005 Kain for the win! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze629 Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Nope. For the loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 No, I'm pretty sure it's Kain for the win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze629 Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Not when it comes from the EU. No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Ah but Blaze, we're not talking about EU, are we? We're talking about EPISODE 3, which is official George Lucas. And since Mace Windu really only appears in, ironically enough, canon material and George Lucas has said that Yoda is the better in the canon(ie: Databank info for Eps 1-3 on BOTH characters), I'd definently say KAIN FTW!!! And besides, this topic is irrelevant. Yoda and Mace don't use swords. They use lightsabers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobQel-Droma Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 If you were the most powerful force-user ever you could kill Mace; Just Force Crush him. It wouldn't matter ONE SINGLE BIT if Mace was the absolute best at saberfighting, because he would be dead. But still, that doesn't say that Mace was not the best saber fighter. He just wasn't the most skilled in using the force. This is not about who is the most powerful, it is about the best at lightsaber fighting. Oh, and by the way, you can't just look at my "just because he wasn't defeated by Yoda doesn't mean a thing quote." Look at the rest of it please. I think Prime said that in the Ultimate Visual Guide that Yoda was the best. Best at what? I have the ultimate guide, and guess what: It says that Mace is the "ultimate living lightsaber fighter." Not to mention that he was the one who created form Vaapad, and was the only one who knew it. He also synthesized that form with Juyo. And will anybody get my name right? No "U": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulic_Qel_Droma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted October 31, 2005 Author Share Posted October 31, 2005 It was said only two opponents ever bested him [Mace] -- Yoda, and Dooku.I don't see how this isn't enough to convince you. Lucas does not recognize the EU as Star Wars history and that information comes from the EU Kain.Uhh... Yes he does. For example when writers write SW novels they have to be Lucas-approved. And the EU in the databank is canon because it is SW facts that just aren't mentioned in the movie. If you were the most powerful force-user ever you could kill Mace; Just Force Crush him. It wouldn't matter ONE SINGLE BIT if Mace was the absolute best at saberfighting, because he would be dead. But still, that doesn't say that Mace was not the best saber fighter. He just wasn't the most skilled in using the force. This is not about who is the most powerful, it is about the best at lightsaber fighting.Why did you just say (post) this? It has nothing to do with the topic. Nobody was talking about force using. I think Prime said that in the Ultimate Visual Guide that Yoda was the best. Best at what?Umm, well the topic is best swordsman, so it's pretty obvious he's talking about best swordsman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 ...he[Mace] was the one who created form Vaapad, and was the only one who knew it. He also synthesized that form with Juyo. He didn't create Vaapad, he combined it with Juyo and finished it. Before Mace mastered it, it was considered an incomplete fighting form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobQel-Droma Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Man, DarthMoeller, trying to get you to understand something is the hardest thing I have ever done. The fact is yes, this is not about force using. It is about lightsaber fighting, which is what I have been trying to tell you. If you look at the databank entry, it says: In his day, Mace was one of the best lightsaber fighters of the Jedi order. Did you just completely blow past that or what? It says that he was the best, and even though he was bested by Yoda and Dooku, it does not say how he was bested. Look at it this way; if you were the best swordfighter in the whole world, you could be beaten by someone else- say an archer, if it was the middle ages. It would not matter if you were the best at swordfighting, because you would have an arrow through the chest. Same for Force Power versus Saber Skills. Palpatine could fry Mace ordinarily, and Mace wouldn't be able to use that absorb thing like Yoda; however, he could bring down Palps with his blade. And here you are asking me why I am not convinced by the fact that he was bested by two opponents? Because that doesn't mean he wasn't the best at saberfighting, it does not say how he was beaten at all. And here is my question: ...Mace was the best living lightsaber fighter... Why do you just keep ignoring that? Or all the other quotes that are from Lucas that were suggested by Blaze. And if you ask me, even just combining it and using it with Juyo shows superior master of the Lightsaber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 In his day, Mace was one of the best lightsaber fighters of the Jedi order. ONE OF THE BEST!!! Emphasis on ONE OF THE, not number one, ONE OF THE BEST. Top 3, apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted November 1, 2005 Author Share Posted November 1, 2005 ONE OF THE BEST!!! Emphasis on ONE OF THE, not number one, ONE OF THE BEST. Top 3, apparently.Quoted for emphasis. Ok, I have a question for you. How can you measure who is the best saber fighter without having the 2 fight each other? Because this is the only way I can see that fairly measures who is better, and Yoda won when they did ever fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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