What Jedi Class should Revan really be?

[SITHSLAYER133]

start agian and go to dantooine and read the comp tellin u about the classes

[SITHSLAYER133]

but its hard to imagine revan as either tho

[Char Ell]

but its hard to imagine revan as either tho

Whatever floats your boat, hombre.

 

start agian and go to dantooine and read the comp tellin u about the classes

Uh, no I don't think so. Homey don't play that.

I think it's pretty lame when someone states something as fact, then when asked to back it up that person responds, "Go look it up yourself."

 

I've played KotOR enough to recognize when someone uses dialog from the game. And I don't recall the training computer on Dantooine describing the Jedi classes as:

gaurdians rush headlong into any conflict

sentinals may use a force power or 2

consulars are the major tactiacions

Since you can't or won't make the effort to provide factual basis for your argument I guess I'll go ahead and do it for you. In so doing I think it will become readily apparent that your statements have no support.

Using Fred Tetra's fantabulous KotOR Tool I extracted the following from the Dantooine training computer dialog file (dan13_tutorial.dlg):

Jedi Guardians train for battle and physical prowess. In contrast, Jedi Consulars seek to master the awesome power of the Force. Jedi Sentinels seek to find a balance between these two extremes.

If you take the time to review your statement of the classes and compare it to this I don't see how any rational person would see how they equate. In essence, you have taken the Jedi classes of KotOR and assigned your own definition to them.

Perhaps you sense my annoyance at this point?

Look, I understand that many people, if not all, like to spin their own ideas into the KotOR universe. If you want to think that Revan wasn't one of the three Jedi classes and was unique then that is your prerogative and I respect that. However when you choose to participate in a group forum that is debating a particular topic I think it a reasonable expectation that you should be able to back up your particular point of view. Not just what you think, but why. After all, it's your interpretation of the KotOR universe, not mine.

[SITHSLAYER133]

i spose ur right i must of been on drugs

 

but thats wat ive have sorta thought for ages

 

Please stop double-posting. This is the second time I've edited your posts.

If you need to make changes to your post (especially within 1 minute, USE the "edit" button. - ChAiNz.2da

[REDJOHNNYMIKE]

I CAN'T BELIEVE I'M ACTUALLY BACKING UP LIAYD!!!

 

I believe that at his core he is a consular, because of his power in the force, he is quite simply the most powerful person of his time, his natural afinity with the force would make it come easier to him giving him time to focus on combat and skills as well.

 

But I see it this way you have Guardians like Malak and Sion who wade through battle crushing whatever gets in their way, Sentinals like Bastila who use stealth attacks to neutralize their targets, then you have those like Revan who tower over the battlefield and use their increased Wisdom, intelligence and charisma to bend the flow of battle to their will, while Intelligence is a staple of the sentinel, and charisma is more general, a full understanding of them would most likely be achieved by a master of the force, who naturally focuses more on mental disciplines and complete awareness of his surroundings.

 

Another way I see it is that because of his power, he was always truly consular, but when young his curiosity guided him more in the role of the sentinal, then as he grew his discoveries pushed him more into the realm of the guardian because he started to act a bit more rashly, and as he matured and his wisdom and experience grew he finally fulfilled his destiny of consular through not only his wise strategies but his awareness of "other" events, which influenced his decisions, this is why I believe that he shows aptitude in all classes, but he has no rival as a consular, an unnaturally strong connection with the force seems to best describe him.

[Char Ell]

Well said RJM. Compared to some of your other posts that I've read, that has got to be once of the most insightful and well stated opinions you've made IMHO.

[TheGreenGoblin]

Here's how I look at it:

 

The first thing that's important is that we drop Game mechanics, because if we're trying to figure out what Revan really was, then we have to do so in context of the story.

 

We are told many times Revan was strong in the force, some take this to mean he was a Jedi Consular, but I think some are mistaking "Strong in the Force" to mean had a ****load of Force Powers. Everything a Jedi does uses the Force, from jumping across the room, sensing danger or the feelings of others, to blocking blaster shots and pinpoint motions of Lightsaber combat. Anakin Skywalker is considered by many to be one of the most strongest Force powered individuals in all of Star Wars, but most would agree he was a Jedi Guardian.

 

We also know Revan was able to beat Mandalore in one-on-one combat, pointing to a strong melee character (Jedi Guardian), but what were the conditions of this battle? Was it an all-out no holds barred conflict or an honorable duel, did Revan use his saber or did he use the force? We're not told either way.

 

I've seen people use HK-47 as evidence pointing to a Revan Sentinel, but we really don't know under what conditions HK was built. Was it Revan by himself in a workshop? Did Revan have the help of a crack-team of engineers, or did Revan merely have HK built for him by underlings? And if Revan did in fact build HK himself does this necessarily point to the role of a Sentinel? Once again, Anakin Skywalker managed to create Threepio at a young age and grew up to be a Guardian. Importantly however, is if he did build HK all by himself, that doesn't point to being a Sentinel but instead towards a Scout (since that's where skill in repair originates from), however in the context of the story, outside of game mechanics, one could still become a Counsular or Guardian and still possess good natural ability with droids.

 

Ultimately, there is nothing conclusive, there are tidbits here and there but not once is there a single shred of evidence that says Revan was THIS. Everything, thanks to the careful work of Bioware, can be viewed as the player wants it to be. So in conclusion, Revan's whatever you want him or her to be.

[BattleDog]

Firstly I'd like to apologize for the sweeping nature of my previous post. I was running short of net time, then I saw this topic and wanted to post something.

 

As I said before I believe Reven was a Guardian, the reson for this is that when you look at the main thrust of Reven's character his core skills seem to be in war. Personnal combat, leadership, tactics. My real reson for feeling he is a Guardian is that I believe the kind of Jedi that would defy the Council to confront the Mandalorians directly in battle would be a warrior.

 

Or took look at it another way a Jedi with such a flair for battle and warfaring would be molded into a Guardian by his masters.

[lukeiamyourdad]

As I said before I believe Reven was a Guardian, the reson for this is that when you look at the main thrust of Reven's character his core skills seem to be in war. Personnal combat, leadership, tactics. My real reson for feeling he is a Guardian is that I believe the kind of Jedi that would defy the Council to confront the Mandalorians directly in battle would be a warrior.

 

Any Dark Sider would defy the Jedi Council. It means nothing. The question now was when Revan was corrupted. Before the start of the Mandolarian wars or during it.

 

 

Or took look at it another way a Jedi with such a flair for battle and warfaring would be molded into a Guardian by his masters.

 

The thing is Jedi frown upon warfare. No Jedi Master would make Revan into a great tactician or anything related directly to war. Perhaps ways to end them quickly without a large bloodshed but not how to command fleets and legions of troops.

[SITHSLAYER133]

some people are born with certain skills some have a telent for manipulation or fighting revan was really intelligent and sposed to be able to manipulate events to his liking which is considered to be stradagy

[TheGreenGoblin]

 

The thing is Jedi frown upon warfare. No Jedi Master would make Revan into a great tactician or anything related directly to war. Perhaps ways to end them quickly without a large bloodshed but not how to command fleets and legions of troops.

 

Yes but we're told Revan had a lust for knowledge. I'm sure he didn't limit himself to only Jedi teachings.

[lukeiamyourdad]

But he wouldn't learn that from the Jedi would he?

And Sithslayer did say that he would be molded into a Guardian by his masters.

Besides, your argument about lust for knowledge would indicate him being a Consular more then a Guardian.

[TheGreenGoblin]

But he wouldn't learn that from the Jedi would he?

And Sithslayer did say that he would be molded into a Guardian by his masters.

Besides, your argument about lust for knowledge would indicate him being a Consular more then a Guardian.

 

 

How does being a Consular or a Guardian for that matter affect his ability to read and think about various texts that Revan might have read over the years. Are you using gaming mechanics here or are you trying to figure out Revan's class within the context of the story?

 

 

 

On another note: Revan briefly appears in KoTOR 2, is there any way somebody with technical ability to try and see if they could find out what Revan is exactly.

[lukeiamyourdad]

How does being a Consular or a Guardian for that matter affect his ability to read and think about various texts that Revan might have read over the years. Are you using gaming mechanics here or are you trying to figure out Revan's class within the context of the story?

 

The game says that Consulars are learner, while Guardians are warriors. They're the Priests to the Paladins.

Warriors, with a slightly stereotypical description, are not the smartest fellows around. They're the strongest in terms of brute strength.

A lust for knowledge, like you said, would be an archetype of the priest-like character, of the consular.

 

One thing you must remember though, we cannot toss the game mechanics aside. If we did, we'd also have to toss out the character classes, making this entire discussion pointless.

[BattleDog]

I think your right about the Consular being preists, medieval monks might be a better description. However I feal the word Paladin is wrong for Guardians. Warrior monk might be better. Think of the Shaulin monks, very enlightened but also very deadly. I think the steriotype of dumb warriors is a bit silly really. No swordsman gets by on strength and speed, he beats his opponent with strategy, bladework and temperment.

[SITHSLAYER133]

i didnt say he would be moldeld into a gaurdian but i think i think the masters who taught revan would have each put a different spin on his training

as in kavar was a gaurdian. which means that in essence he might have learned all three styles of jedi which would have made him the sorta ultra jedi that he was

[RedHawke]

However I feal the word Paladin is wrong for Guardians.

Nope, it is spot on! I do realise the word Paladin is disliked by some people, but remember the base D20 system and settings are rooted in Western Fantasy (L.O.T.R.).

 

Since the KOTOR games are based on D20 so, Paladins are directly akin to Guardians. Conselars are directly akin to Clerics. Sentinels are the only new class as there is no Fantasy D20 ancestry, the nearest you could get is a Cleric/Rogue or Fighter/Cleric multi-class.

 

I think the steriotype of dumb warriors is a bit silly really.

Me too! Paladins are anything but big dumb swordsmen... Barbarians or Warriors possibly, but not Paladins!

[TheGreenGoblin]

The game says that Consulars are learner, while Guardians are warriors. They're the Priests to the Paladins.

Warriors, with a slightly stereotypical description, are not the smartest fellows around. They're the strongest in terms of brute strength.

A lust for knowledge, like you said, would be an archetype of the priest-like character, of the consular.

 

No the game in fact says that the Consular are focused on understanding the mysteries of the Force (or something close to that). Show me the line where it says ingame that the Consular is smarter than the Sentinel or Guardian (not using stats).

 

 

One thing you must remember though, we cannot toss the game mechanics aside. If we did, we'd also have to toss out the character classes, making this entire discussion pointless.

 

True enough but there has to be some kind of compromise made, for example I doubt the Jedi allow their students to choose their career path after a 3-4 question personality test. Or that the Jedi really condoned their students tapping heavily into DS powers.

 

 

Again if anyone could try and find out what class the Revan npc in KoTOR II is that could be a great help. I think this is possible, I know people found Malak's stats and character class for KoTOR I.

[deathdisco]

There are .utc's in both games for Revan. Both say his class is Jedi Guardian. Not that that means anything. In KOTOR Tool go to:

Bifs->Templates.bif->Blueprint,Character->n_darthrevan.utc

[Char Ell]

I looked it up in the .bifs section and it was right where deathdisco said. So much for the debate...

Well, the only argument I can think to make after that little revelation is that maybe Revan chose a different class after the mind wipe. Other than that...

[TheGreenGoblin]

I looked it up in the .bifs section and it was right where deathdisco said. So much for the debate...

Well, the only argument I can think to make after that little revelation is that maybe Revan chose a different class after the mind wipe. Other than that...

 

 

Of course, Revan did undergo an entire personality(at least if you go lightside)/memory change, whatever skill and focus he might have had as the Dark Lord was now raw and untapped, he could focus it any way he pleased.

[lukeiamyourdad]

I looked it up in the .bifs section and it was right where deathdisco said. So much for the debate...

Well, the only argument I can think to make after that little revelation is that maybe Revan chose a different class after the mind wipe. Other than that...

 

 

Looks like we got both got owned by the pro-Guardian people.

 

*pads Hai Wan on the back.

[Char Ell]

Yes. All my arguments and rebuttals...

*** the loud sound of a toilet flushing ***

 

I just never imagined Revan as a Jedi Guardian.

 

But, on the bright side, it was a pretty good debate. I enjoyed making my point and also enjoyed those that intelligently made their points as well.

 

Here's to LIAYD for some excellent mental jousts!

And here's to everyone else who participated in this poll!

And I raise my glass to those who voted Guardian, in spite of the overwhelming arguments and votes in favor of the other two classes

And to all those who actually argued for Revan being a Jedi Guardian... I salute you!

Cheeeers to all of ush... who *hiccup* love the KotOR universh

Aaand to my long lost cat... whuruver you urr *hic*... uhhh, may... she rust in... peace

*** merciful unconsciousness overtakes Hai Wan ***

[lukeiamyourdad]

Cheers mate! *raises glass in honor of a useless debate

 

To all the time we've wasted here!

[TheGreenGoblin]

The most gracious losers are often the best winners.