Jan Gaarni Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 at least Chewie went out the way a bad-@$$ Wookiee should, fighting to the very end against all odds, even if all he could do was yell and shake his fists at the moon crashing down on him. Heh, that made me chuckle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anton_138 Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 yeah, Jan, it may have been as effective and fruitful as trying to get a point across on message-boards, but at least he gave it his all... still sucked, though. when i read it i had to put the book down and let it soak in, because i knew that was that and he wasn't coming back and if i couldn't accept that then i'd never get past the whole "denial" stage of his loss. in an interview at the end of the last NJO book, they said Salvatore had received threats from fans who didn't like him killing of Chewie, and it really upset him, but the truth is it was Lucas's decision, and last i heard he still owns the rights to SW and the fans don't. i've never been totally disappointed in SW (though a little in the prequal films), but i have been disappointed in some so-called SW fans. Rest In Peace, Chewie... you are missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 the Vong do have weapons/armor resistant to lightsabers, but that is nothing new... being KotOR fans you know about cortosis ore, which has been refered to several times throughout the SW novels. Truth is, I frown upon their use in KotOR. However, they're a necessary evil. Within the D20 system, there's a magic weapon and a regular weapon. The lightsaber is the magic sword, the cortosis plated swords are regulars. They only put those in so that melee wouldn't be unexistent without lightsabers. the issue of Vong vs SW technology is moot, because what IS sci-fi if not the introduction of technology which does not yet exist? that's what seperates sci-fi from simply fiction, right? and seeing as how the Vong tech is not from the SW galaxy, it makes since that it would be vitally different. if aliens actually landed on your front lawn, would you expect their tech to be just like ours, or would you expect them to have found different means to a similar end? This is where your perception of Star Wars is quite different, where most people don't understand a simple thing. The Galaxy in which Star Wars is situated, is not considered like a galaxy, but rather like a planet and each planet in that galaxy, a country. In other words: Galaxy=Planet Planets=Countries The idea of aliens invading another galaxy can be used to make a parallel with Martians invading Earth. Earth=Galaxy, Mars=Vong Galaxy. Now, what exactly is the problem with that? Simple, it's such an old and overused concept of science fiction that it simply feels out of place in Star Wars. Star Wars isn't aliens vs humans, not martians vs earthlings. It's humans vs humans. again, the means are different but the effect is the same. SW has hyperspace engines and hyperspace, the Vong manipulate gravity so they are basically "pulled" around instead of "pushed," but the effect is the same. gravity manipulation compensates for their self-imposed lack of technology, including their "shields" which are described as miniature artificial black-holes created by genetically engineered creatures... odd, yes, but a LOT of SW is odd like that, right? Nope, a lot of Star Wars doesn't involve such an odd thing as black hole shields. A lot of things the EU came up with is extremely weird, while the movies make some more sense. Nonetheless, this is a question of opinion on the oddity. Also, a question of different means but same effect cannot apply. If I use a medieval sword and kill a man, it's the same as if I use a bayonnet on my M1 Garand right? See, the effect is the same, some got killed by a sharp weapon, yet it's out of place. You would never accept medieval swordsmen fighting a battalion of WWII US soldiers. and, to ruin it for anyone who has never read NJO, and those who appearantly never would, the Vong were NOT outside of the Force! that was the big mystery of the series! they were originally Force capable, until they got so out of control that they were eventually cut-off from the Force on a genetic level (you could say they were given midichlorian blockers, but who'd want to say that... damned midichlorians), the effect being not too different from an ysalamiri, which has been in SW as long as cortosis, Mara Jade, and TIE Defenders. not to mention a few JK games, right? in the end of NJO, all of this was explained, the mystery solved, the war over, and the Vong actually discovered they COULD reconnect with the Force (the true Palpatine-like Vong leader was even Force capable throughout the entire series, it just wasn't known), so the argument that all things must be in the Force was enforced completely in NJO. Ah well, good to know, still a lame concept. (Which was re-used for the KotOR Rakatan but the Force actually had an effect on them). I don't believe that the ending about Yuuzhan Vong being force capable being an enforcement of that fact during the whole serie but more the result of some Star Wars fans calling it a total heresy to say that they were outside the Force. They then crafted an explanation to appease the mobs. the Vong were used to supplant the Imps in, in the since that the Empire was gone and someone had to be the bad-guys. also, the Vong gave a good opportunity to bring the Rebs and Imps back together, ending with not a New Republic but a Galactic Alliance, bringing the galaxy almost full-circle since Palpatine's orchestrated rise. so we see that politically the NJO series shares some mindset with traditional SW. In my mind, after Endor, the Alliance won, they lived happily ever after, the end. All the rest is fan fiction. Writers only created an after RotJ world because some fans are never happy with an ending where not everyone and everything dies and creation undoes itself. They'll always wonder what happened to x character. Do we really need to know? Absolutely not, but LEC saw a need and took a chance. Some of the post RoTJ EU came out good, a lot didn't. saying they replaced the Sith... well, maybe in a sense, but from the original SW book, was there any mention or hint of the Sith? the Emperor in the book was not even a Sith, as he was described as a powerless figure-head for the Moffs. No, I read the book and indeed the Sith aren't mentionned. the thing with SW canon is Lucas can change anything at any time, like he did with the whole origin of Boba Fett. does this mean everyone should dump on the Bounty Hunter Wars or whatever books talk about Jaster Masteel (misspelled, i'm sure), the journeyman Protector who would become Boba Fett after being exiled from his homeworld, just because Lucas decided, after many years, to ignore that and make Fett a clone of the original Fett? Yes. Obviously, he's the one who holds the rights to the serie and movies come first. Boba Fett is the clone of Jango Fett. End of story. maybe some people object to NJO because they killed Chewie? well, that struck a nerve with me, but Lucas gave the personal thumbs-up on that one, and it's his world, right? at least Chewie went out the way a bad-@$$ Wookiee should, fighting to the very end against all odds, even if all he could do was yell and shake his fists at the moon crashing down on him. No, I didn't really mind that much. It was a stupid way to kill him but it's not why I hate the NJO. if you just don't like NJO for some reason, that's great, no problem, but don't act like nobody else likes it or would like it because it's "not Star Wars". Actually, an NJO game would have to be aimed at the mainstream audience to make money. You can't aim to make money when your game is about a small niche in the Star Wars fandom. So, nobody would like it outside of the NJO readers. The thing is the NJO is simply the most controversial piece of EU. People hate it with zeal or love it with equal fanaticism. However, a game like E@W featuring the civs from the movie, which one of those side would hate it? None. i personally think an NJO RTS game would bring in a bit of StarCraft diversity to the SW gaming franchise... besides, a sequal to EaW could even allow more than 2 factions, allowing not just the NewRep/GalAll and Vong, but also the Remnant Imps and the Human League. Star Wars =/= StarCraft Like I said before, this is one world. It's like the french fighting the british during the napoleonic wars. They had similar forces. expand your minds, people... don't just try convincing others to limit theirs. Actually, you are trying to limit my mind to accepting the NJO. I do the same, but I don't berate others for doing it. It's part of a debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Gaarni Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 yeah, Jan, it may have been as effective and fruitful as trying to get a point across on message-boards, but at least he gave it his all... still sucked, though. when i read it i had to put the book down and let it soak in, because i knew that was that and he wasn't coming back and if i couldn't accept that then i'd never get past the whole "denial" stage of his loss. in an interview at the end of the last NJO book, they said Salvatore had received threats from fans who didn't like him killing of Chewie, and it really upset him, but the truth is it was Lucas's decision, and last i heard he still owns the rights to SW and the fans don't. i've never been totally disappointed in SW (though a little in the prequal films), but i have been disappointed in some so-called SW fans. Rest In Peace, Chewie... you are missed. They are all dead anyway, cause it's happening a long time ago. Question is, how did they die, not when will they die. In my mind, after Endor, the Alliance won, they lived happily ever after, the end. All the rest is fan fiction. And that's just what it is: your opinion. But in the end it's official Star Wars. There's nothing you can do about that. And there's nothing I can do about that. We can block it out, deny it for our own reasons. But we can't force others to think the same. We can't even really debate if we don't consider it official. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anton_138 Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 excellent point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popcorn2008 Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 Personally I agree with Luke on this one. The NJO books seem to go way against star wars. And the major part of it that makes me angry is the fact that they try to make the Vong the "biggest" threat the galaxy ever saw. In my opinion the Empire or the Sith would and should be the biggest threat. The Vong also seem to ruin the whole star wars universe, like Coruscant. They totally obliverated the planet which makes me upset. Coruscant is one of those planets I never want to see in ruins. Also the Vong dont fight with conventional Star Wars technology. All in all, I dont like the idea of a Vong expansion at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Gaarni Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 Didn't they just terraform Coruscant and made it lush and green again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FroZticles Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 I like EU some of it is really good and fits in well. I don't mind the whole NJO series its interesting. Since most Star Wars games are EU I don't see the big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 Didn't they just terraform Coruscant and made it lush and green again? But thats everything thats wrong with the NJO. I mean really, on Earth we have a lot of different ecologies, but in Star Wars there is only ever one per planet. I mean- Tatooine = Desert Geonosis = Rocky Kamino = Oceanic Kashyyyk = Jungle(?) Endor = Forest Mustufar = Volcanic Utapau = Sinkhole Naboo = Plains Coruscant = Cities To then transform Coruscant into a non-completely convered city is going againt SW. I should also point out that LIAYD is right in that SW ends with Ep6. Anakin is dead (no more sotry) but also, the Sith are defeated, and balance has been brought to the Force. Look at the films, EVERYTHING that happens is part of the battle between the Forces of Good/Light (Jedi) and the forces of Darkness/Evil (Sith). Once that battle has been decided, as it is in RotJ, thats it. Oh yes, finally Anton was saying that the Vong were part of the Force, they just couldn't feel it. However, that doesn't explain why the Jedi couldn't feel them through the Force or affect them with the Force. One more thing - SNAKES THAT STOP LIGHTSABRES!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Gaarni Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 I didn't like the ruining of Coruscant, that's just too big. But there's nothing I can do about that. It happened, and what's done is done. I'll restate: You can't argue with the official policy. Nor can you go against it. The official policy is not a matter of personal opinion. You can deny it ever happened in your head, but you'd be at a disadvantage in a debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popcorn2008 Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 I didn't like the ruining of Coruscant, that's just too big. I agree, I also believe that it is way to big on scale. I never denied it happening though. But that doesnt mean ill be content and just accept it... its just that it is highly upsetting. Thats why I choice to ignore NJO as part of the EU. Personally I think as soon as the empire was dead, say after the novel Vision of the Future, Star Wars was done. I think they only made the NJO because: 1. They wanted to continue Star Wars EU, and had to make up something totally against the principles of Star Wars so they could get people intereasted. But in doing that they never thought they would also make people who hate it. 2. They made the Vong oh so bad so they could extend their conquest out for a huge span of novels not just the usua 1, 2 (Hand of Thrawn) or 3 (Thrawn Trilogy, Jedi academy trilogy). The main thing with NJO is like LIAYD said you either love it a whole lot, or hate it eternally. I hate it eternally. I think its too far fetched and to be honest, ruined a great universe. But to go back to our topic, I dont think it would do justice to the EaW engine to make a Vong expansion. I would prefer a Clone Wars expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Sith Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 I love it a whole lot too far fetched Come on, the whole Star Wars series is far fetched. I say an expansion about NJO would be a great idea. Come on you just dont like NJO cause its to realsitic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 Come on you just dont like NJO cause its to realsitic. Even the most hardcore NJO fans never said this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popcorn2008 Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 Come on you just dont like NJO cause its to realsitic. It may be realistic for say Star Trek, but it stands out akwardly for Star Wars. I mean the whole plot of the Vong invasion reminds me of something Star Trek would do, or should I say did? It reminds me quite a bit of Deep Space Nine, when the Dominion (hey anouther alien race from a different galaxy...) invades the galaxy the federation, klingons, and romulans are in, among other races. NJO is about the most unrealistic piece of star wars fiction i have ever read, at least for the Star Wars galaxy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 popcorn - quite true, although the Dominion are from another part of the same galaxy, not a different one. However, for all intents and purposes it was cut off from the Federation/Klingons/Romulans/Cardassians/Ferengi. I never thought about it before but you are right, the Dominion War is very similar to the NJO - I wonder if thats where the EU authors got their ideas from... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Gaarni Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 Yeah, that's what I thought too, Windu. In the Star Trek universe, they haven't explorered their whole galaxy yet, in fact they haven't explorered more than a quadrant I believe (maybe 2, but that is tops). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general ackbar Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 they will probably make a clone wars expansion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naja Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 Actually, the Dominion War was my favorite part of Deep Space Nine. Prior to it, DS9 was somewhat of another hokey, technobabbling Star Trek rendition. But after it began, the show started becoming very political, and me like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popcorn2008 Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 Actually, the Dominion War was my favorite part of Deep Space Nine. Prior to it, DS9 was somewhat of another hokey, technobabbling Star Trek rendition. But after it began, the show started becoming very political, and me like that. I liked the Dominion Wars, i just dont like how the NJO copied its concept. Or seemed to anyways... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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