Sequel?

[Manny C]

yeah, the game is about delta squad, you can't change that. Especially when they left it open for a sequel by leaving sev behind.

 

They set it up perfectly for the squad to defy orders and save him, and insodoing miss the activation of order 66. If they made a game where delta squad were pro empire id be pissed off, mostly because they're not just faceless soldiers (despite the fact that they are clones), they actually have some personality to them.

[MachineCult]

No.

 

You should play as Delta Squad in the sequel.

 

I suggested that they could probably fit another game between the end of Republic Commando and the end of the Clone Wars.

I never said that you wouldn't play as delta squad, even when I said Rogue Commando, ROGUE, defected from the Empire. They'd probably be too old though.

 

Try reading a post properly before replying.

[Manny C]

read my first reply to this thread machinecult, its my idea for how they could make a "rogue commando" work story wise.

[TK-8252]

They set it up perfectly for the squad to defy orders and save him, and insodoing miss the activation of order 66. If they made a game where delta squad were pro empire id be pissed off, mostly because they're not just faceless soldiers (despite the fact that they are clones), they actually have some personality to them.

 

Except they didn't defy the orders. Neither did they rebel against the Empire. None of the clones did. The Clone Commandos were genetically modified for lower independence and increased loyalty exactly like the regular Clone Troopers, therefore it is genetically-impossible for them to defy or defect.

 

I never said that you wouldn't play as delta squad, even when I said Rogue Commando, ROGUE, defected from the Empire.

 

Except Delta Squad didn't defect, so a "Rogue Commando" game could not have you play as the clones.

 

Try reading a post properly before replying.

 

I did. It appears you do not fully understand the way the clones react to orders (watch AotC again during the Kamino scenes).

[Manny C]

Except they didn't defy the orders. Neither did they rebel against the Empire. None of the clones did. The Clone Commandos were genetically modified for lower independence and increased loyalty exactly like the regular Clone Troopers, therefore it is genetically-impossible for them to defy or defect.

 

You don't know that, the game ends with them in a dropship and arguing over whether they should go back for him. The point of the commandos is that they trained together seperately, meaning they have a fraternal bond with each other that the others dont have, its entirely possible that they would defy orders for the sake of one of them. "genetically-impossible"? please, what do you know about whats "genetically-possible", dont throw phrases like that in to sound like you know what ur talking about.

 

Except Delta Squad didn't defect, so a "Rogue Commando" game could not have you play as the clones.

again, you dont know that, the game ends b4 order 66 is given, we dont know what happens to them.

 

I did. It appears you do not fully understand the way the clones react to orders (watch AotC again during the Kamino scenes).

again, the point of the game is that the commandos are different and better, they've been trained differently in a different environment. They aren't the same as normal clones otherwise it wouldnt be "republic commando" it would be "republic trooper"

[TK-8252]

You don't know that, the game ends with them in a dropship and arguing over whether they should go back for him. The point of the commandos is that they trained together seperately, meaning they have a fraternal bond with each other that the others dont have, its entirely possible that they would defy orders for the sake of one of them. "genetically-impossible"? please, what do you know about whats "genetically-possible", dont throw phrases like that in to sound like you know what ur talking about.

 

I thought the meaning of "genetically-impossible" would be self-explanatory. Something is impossible due to limitations through genetics. How can you not have figured that out yourself...

 

again, you dont know that, the game ends b4 order 66 is given, we dont know what happens to them.

 

According to AotC, they follow the orders.

 

again, the point of the game is that the commandos are different and better, they've been trained differently in a different environment. They aren't the same as normal clones otherwise it wouldnt be "republic commando" it would be "republic trooper"

 

Cody and Bly are different and better, trained differently in a different environment, and yet they follow orders to kill their friends and do so without question or hesitation. Why is it so hard for the commandos to follow orders with the exact same genetic modifications and all?

[Manny C]

I thought the meaning of "genetically-impossible" would be self-explanatory. Something is impossible due to limitations through genetics. How can you not have figured that out yourself...

 

who said anything about not understanding the term. The point is you dont know anything about "genetic limitations". You're trying to rationalise an argument using a meger attempt to deem something scientifically impossible when A: the whole thing is fiction, and B: you dont know anything about the science so you might as well say elvis isnt dead, hes the leader of an alien invasion force who are planning to conquer earth and it would have just about as much credibility.

 

Originally Posted by Manny C

again, you dont know that, the game ends b4 order 66 is given, we dont know what happens to them.

 

 

According to AotC, they follow the orders.

 

id take your comment at face value but there are some problems that prevent me from doing so. Firstly, they dont mention the clone commandos AT ALL in ANY of the movies. Secondly, AotC happens BEFORE Republic Commando, so how can they say that the commandos followed order 66 in AotC when it hasnt even happened yet.

 

Cody and Bly are different and better, trained differently in a different environment, and yet they follow orders to kill their friends and do so without question or hesitation. Why is it so hard for the commandos to follow orders with the exact same genetic modifications and all?

How can they follow the order if they don't hear it? My idea is that the commandos go back to save sev because of their fraternal bond, putting them out of contact with command, therefore, when order 66 is given they dont hear it so they dont start killing jedi. Really isnt that hard to understand, mate.

[TK-8252]

who said anything about not understanding the term. The point is you dont know anything about "genetic limitations". You're trying to rationalise an argument using a meger attempt to deem something scientifically impossible when A: the whole thing is fiction, and B: you dont know anything about the science so you might as well say elvis isnt dead, hes the leader of an alien invasion force who are planning to conquer earth and it would have just about as much credibility.

 

If the whole thing is fiction then why don't we just have Delta Squad turn into birds and fly away into the forests of Kashyyyk and live happily ever after? That sounds AWESOME.

 

But sadly, there are limits even to Star Wars. And some of those limitations are genetic.

 

id take your comment at face value but there are some problems that prevent me from doing so. Firstly, they dont mention the clone commandos AT ALL in ANY of the movies. Secondly, AotC happens BEFORE Republic Commando, so how can they say that the commandos followed order 66 in AotC when it hasnt even happened yet.

 

When they're talking about the clones that includes the commandos, as they have been modified exactly the same as the grunt troops.

 

Oh yeah... "I have five special commando units awaiting your orders." That's what a commander said to Mace Windu in AotC. So you're wrong that they don't mention the commandos.

 

Also, you're wrong that AotC happens before Republic Commando. The very beginning of Republic Commando has you as a fetus, which would be ten years before AotC.

 

How can they follow the order if they don't hear it? My idea is that the commandos go back to save sev because of their fraternal bond, order 66 is given and they dont hear it therefore they dont start killing jedi.

 

There are comlinks in their helmets.

[Manny C]

If the whole thing is fiction then why don't we just have Delta Squad turn into birds and fly away into the forests of Kashyyyk and live happily ever after?

because that's stupid.

 

But sadly, there are limits even to Star Wars. And some of those limitations are genetic.

 

The clones have been modified, yes, but they're not completely dependant on orders otherwise they'd be useless soldiers. Secondly, there are things that could easily be used as plot devices to get around your "genetic limitations", such as the strength of a family like bond that the commandos do share (says so in the game and the website).

 

When they're talking about the clones that includes the commandos, as they have been modified exactly the same as the grunt troops.

they havent been trained the same, they dont have the same values, tactics or relationship with fellow troops.

 

Oh yeah... "I have five special commando units awaiting your orders." That's what a commander said to Mace Windu in AotC. So you're wrong that they don't mention the commandos.

be that as it may, it doesnt really prove anything.

 

Also, you're wrong that AotC happens before Republic Commando. The very beginning of Republic Commando has you as a fetus, which would be ten years before AotC.

 

republic commando starts as AotC ends. And you've still missed the whole point. The point is that i stated, no where does anyone say that the commandos followed order 66. to which you replied:

According to AotC, they follow the orders.

 

AotC happened years before order 66 was given, how the hell could AotC say that the commandos followed order 66 if it isnt going to happen for a good couple of years! jesus this is like arguing with a wet rag.

 

There are comlinks in their helmets.

 

have you even read my first reply? Here's how it works, the deltas decide, out of caring for their "brother" Sev, that they are going to go back and rescue him, thereby defying orders. So they cut communications with command and go back to save him. MEANWHILE, order 66 is given, jedi are being killed everywhere and the deltas are none the wiser as they are busy saving sev. Therefore, they DONT hear the order and they dont start killing jedi, so they STAY GOOD. it really is not that complicated.

[TK-8252]

because that's stupid.

 

So is having rogue clones.

 

The clones have been modified, yes, but they're not completely dependant on orders otherwise they'd be useless soldiers. Secondly, there are things that could easily be used as plot devices to get around your "genetic limitations", such as the strength of a family like bond that the commandos do share (says so in the game and the website).

 

Not dependent on orders entirely, but they obey any orders as said in AotC.

 

they havent been trained the same, they dont have the same values, tactics or relationship with fellow troops.

 

I said they are modified the same, not trained. They are trained differently, yes, but so are Cody and Bly, and yet they murder their friends just because they were ordered to.

 

be that as it may, it doesnt really prove anything.

 

I just wanted to correct you.

 

republic commando starts as AotC ends. And you've still missed the whole point. The point is that i stated, no where does anyone say that the commandos followed order 66. to which you replied:

 

Wrong, it starts TEN YEARS BEFORE. Remember, you start out as a fetus in the very beginning?

 

And it doesn't need to say that they followed Order 66. Both AotC and RotS establish that the clones obeyed their orders. Don't contradict the highest source of canon, George Lucas's own films.

 

There actually WAS a "sequel" to Republic Commando. There was "Republic Commando: Order 66" made for mobile phones where you play as Delta Squad hunting down Jedi.

 

AotC happened years before order 66 was given, how the hell could AotC say that the commandos followed order 66 if it isnt going to happen for a good couple of years! jesus this is like arguing with a wet rag.

 

"They are totally obedient, following any order about question." - Lama Su in AotC

 

have you even read my first reply? Here's how it works, the deltas decide, out of caring for their "brother" Sev, that they are going to go back and rescue him, thereby defying orders. So they cut communications with command and go back to save him. MEANWHILE, order 66 is given, jedi are being killed everywhere and the deltas are none the wiser as they are busy saving sev. Therefore, they DONT hear the order and they dont start killing jedi, so they STAY GOOD. it really is not that complicated.

 

Yes I did read your post, but it contradicts the ending to Republic Commando. Watch the ending again. They board the gunship and leave without Sev.

[Manny C]

So is having rogue clones.

matter of opinion. Personally i would rather an interesting, detailed story than "you are an imperial commando, kill jedi" to me thats flat, boring, and a one way ticket to another uninspired run of the mill FPS like the rest of the trash that clogs the shelves these days. Republic Commando wasn't that successful, the level design was reasonable, if a bit linear and there wasnt much of a story, but the game mechanics were good fun and so were the characters. By creating "imperial commando" you eliminate the way in which the player relates to the characters, thereby destroying one of the only parts of the first that was good. Think both logically and creatively, imperial commando is a BAD idea. So to me, "imperial commando" is stupid in every respect.

 

Not dependent on orders entirely, but they obey any orders as said in AotC.

 

 

I said they are modified the same, not trained. They are trained differently, yes, but so are Cody and Bly, and yet they murder their friends just because they were ordered to.

no, order 66 is a special behavioural trigger that was programmed into their brains, it wasnt the same as a simple order. A fairly easy mistake to make but a critical one nonetheless. The way you see it, if a commanding officer orders a clone to do absolutely anything, they'll do it. Which is completely stupid and they'd never do it.

 

 

Wrong, it starts TEN YEARS BEFORE. Remember, you start out as a fetus in the very beginning?

oh my god that has to be the most pointless thing you could say. Firstly, thats a cutscene so technically the "game" doesnt start till geonosis, and secondly its completely irrelevant whether theres a cutscene that starts before the movies.

 

And it doesn't need to say that they followed Order 66. Both AotC and RotS establish that the clones obeyed their orders. Don't contradict the highest source of canon, George Lucas's own films.

 

"They are totally obedient, following any order about question." - Lama Su in AotC

 

you've still got the movie mixed up, its not your fault if you couldnt understand it properly. Yes, the movies establish that normal CLONE TROOPERS are totally obedient and follow orders. But the GAME also establishes that the clone commandos are NOT your average clones. It also establishes how important each of delta squad are to each other, and also the fact that each one has his own personality adopted from their personal trainers, ie they are NOT faceless troopers blindly following any order they are given. In fact, the idea to give each commando a different colour scheme was GEORGE LUCAS' idea, as he wanted to establish that each of the commandos are unique and have their own personality. So if anything "the highest source of canon, George Lucas" supports the idea that the clone commandos have their own unique personalities and independant thought.

 

There actually WAS a "sequel" to Republic Commando. There was "Republic Commando: Order 66" made for mobile phones where you play as Delta Squad hunting down Jedi.

 

gee, i wonder why ive never heard of it.

 

[EDIT] i just looked it up, and you dont actually play as delta squad in it

Yes I did read your post, but it contradicts the ending to Republic Commando. Watch the ending again. They board the gunship and leave without Sev.

you dont see them leave the planet, they could easily turn the dropship around. Definately an easily avoidable point that can be avoided in order to have a half decent plot. Why the hell are people so hell bent on having crap games? imperial commando would be crap, i certainly wouldnt buy it, it would completely contradict everything that the game establishes about the commandos.

[TK-8252]

matter of opinion. Personally i would rather an interesting, detailed story than "you are an imperial commando, kill jedi" to me thats flat, boring, and a one way ticket to another uninspired run of the mill FPS like the rest of the trash that clogs the shelves these days. Republic Commando wasn't that successful, the level design was reasonable, if a bit linear and there wasnt much of a story, but the game mechanics were good fun and so were the characters. By creating "imperial commando" you eliminate the way in which the player relates to the characters, thereby destroying one of the only parts of the first that was good. Think both logically and creatively, imperial commando is a BAD idea. So to me, "imperial commando" is stupid in every respect.

 

"You are a Republic Commando, shoot droids."

 

Why would "Imperial Commando" have to be limited to Jedi? No love for killing Rebels?

 

no, order 66 is a special behavioural trigger that was programmed into their brains, it wasnt the same as a simple order. A fairly easy mistake to make but a critical one nonetheless. The way you see it, if a commanding officer orders a clone to do absolutely anything, they'll do it. Which is completely stupid and they'd never do it.

 

Wrong again.

 

From SW Insider article "Guide to the Grand Army of the Republic":

 

Records salvaged from Kamino show that no genetic coding was used to implant obedience to this order. The efficiency with which this order was carried out was due to a genetic predisposition to be highly disciplined - and so to follow orders - that was developed and reinforced by rigorous training.

 

The clones were trained to put their personal feelings, fears, and needs aside and to obey their superiors instantly - training familiar to soldiers throughout history. That made them the most efficient army in the galaxy. Ironically, it sealed the fate of their Jedi commanders.

 

So no, it was not a programmed order. It was just an order like any other.

 

oh my god that has to be the most pointless thing you could say. Firstly, thats a cutscene so technically the "game" doesnt start till geonosis, and secondly its completely irrelevant whether theres a cutscene that starts before the movies.

 

I just wanted to correct you.

 

you've still got the movie mixed up, its not your fault if you couldnt understand it properly. Yes, the movies establish that normal CLONE TROOPERS are totally obedient and follow orders. But the GAME also establishes that the clone commandos are NOT your average clones. It also establishes how important each of delta squad are to each other, and also the fact that each one has his own personality adopted from their personal trainers, ie they are NOT faceless troopers blindly following any order they are given. In fact, the idea to give each commando a different colour scheme was GEORGE LUCAS' idea, as he wanted to establish that each of the commandos are unique and have their own personality. So if anything "the highest source of canon, George Lucas" supports the idea that the clone commandos have their own unique personalities and independant thought.

 

So I guess Cody and Bly didn't obey their orders either?

 

gee, i wonder why ive never heard of it.

 

http://wireless.ign.com/objects/739/739457.html

 

My bad, turns out it wasn't Delta Squad, but more just Republic Commandos who were issued Order 66 and proceed to hunt down Jedi as ordered.

 

you dont see them leave the planet, they could easily turn the dropship around. Definately an easily avoidable point that can be avoided in order to have a half decent plot. Why the hell are people so hell bent on having crap games? imperial commando would be crap, i certainly wouldnt buy it, it would completely contradict everything that the game establishes about the commandos.

 

So let me get this straight: even though they already agreed to obey the orders, all of a sudden, they rip open the doors of the gunship, drop 500 feet into the forest below, then fight their way back into the city to rescue Sev. Then they go fight for the Rebellion because they hate the Republic so much.

 

Yeah, that makes sense...

[Manny C]

"You are a Republic Commando, shoot droids."

 

Why would "Imperial Commando" have to be limited to Jedi? No love for killing Rebels?

 

probably because the rebellion hadnt been founded yet.

Also ur not proving anything with that first comment, i already said it didnt have much of a story.

 

 

So no, it was not a programmed order. It was just an order like any other.

which makes it all more plausible that the deltas could stay good should they be out of contact when the order is given.

 

I just wanted to correct you.

 

bad rhetoric, mate. Makes it look like u cant stay on topic or you dont have a clear idea of what the topic is.

 

So I guess Cody and Bly didn't obey their orders either?

its all circumstances, they followed the order because they were there to hear it, the same thing would happen with the deltas. My idea is to use something called "decent writing", ie use of things like "plot devices" and "constructed circumstance" in order to keep the "protagonists" on the side of good. If im going too fast let me know.

 

 

So let me get this straight: even though they already agreed to obey the orders, all of a sudden, they rip open the doors of the gunship, drop 500 feet into the forest below, then fight their way back into the city to rescue Sev. Then they go fight for the Rebellion because they hate the Republic so much.

 

Yeah, that makes sense...

 

watch the scene again, the characters are conflicted about the decision, there isnt a resolution at the end of the game, its left OPEN, something that writers do so that it's possible to continue the story should they decide to make a sequel. Its really not that difficult. 38, the commander, is conflicted about the decision, and his sense of comradery and leader's kinship with his troops overrides his loyalty and he tells the pilot "take us back down" and the pilot, being a regular clone trooper given an order by a superior officer, does so. Advisor comes in the comlink "38, im reading that your dropship is returning to the surface, what are you doing?" 38 turns OFF his commlink. Scorch, the most independant seeming, does the same, and 40, who is still conflicted, but still follows the squad, does too. As they are landing, a loose anti air shot hits the dropship and it crashes. The game starts, and you take control of 38, who recomposes himself, and the first part of the level would be getting used to the controls and finding scorch and fixer, much like in the first game. From there, they need to find a command console to find anything about sev on the database, and pinpoint his location.

 

At this point, the game is set up for a level that involves fighting through kashyyyk and finding sev. DURING WHICH TIME order 66 is given around the galaxies, while the deltas are out of contact, and thus do not receive the order. This is a possible way in which THOUGHT OUT scripting can properly get around all of your easily avoidable issues by using plot devices, setting up the game for a compelling, and enjoyable story in which the protagonists REMAIN protagonists and don't turn to the empire, and thus the dark side.

 

if that's too complicated for you then maybe the gaming industry is doomed to mindless shooters with no decent plot progression or unique likable characters.

[TK-8252]

probably because the rebellion hadnt been founded yet.

Also ur not proving anything with that first comment, i already said it didnt have much of a story.

 

Not just the Rebels from the OT. There's plenty of other scum and villainy in the galaxy. Take me, for example.

 

which makes it all more plausible that the deltas could stay good should they be out of contact when the order is given.

 

No, because they were genetically-modified for absolute loyalty.

 

bad rhetoric, mate. Makes it look like u cant stay on topic or you dont have a clear idea of what the topic is.

 

Okay so you can say things that are false, and if I correct you then I look like a fool? Got it.

 

its all circumstances, they followed the order because they were there to hear it, the same thing would happen with the deltas. My idea is to use something called "decent writing", ie use of things like "plot devices" and "constructed circumstance" in order to keep the "protagonists" on the side of good. If im going too fast let me know.

 

I like having my intelligence insulted. Feel free to continue insulting. I like it and it makes you look way better than me.

 

watch the scene again, the characters are conflicted about the decision, there isnt a resolution at the end of the game, its left OPEN, something that writers do so that it's possible to continue the story should they decide to make a sequel. Its really not that difficult. 38, the commander, is conflicted about the decision, and his sense of comradery and leader's kinship with his troops overrides his loyalty and he tells the pilot "take us back down" and the pilot, being a regular clone trooper given an order by a superior officer, does so. Advisor comes in the comlink "38, im reading that your dropship is returning to the surface, what are you doing?" 38 turns OFF his commlink. Scorch, the most independant seeming, does the same, and 40, who is still conflicted, but still follows the squad, does too. As they are landing, a loose anti air shot hits the dropship and it crashes. The game starts, and you take control of 38, who recomposes himself, and the first part of the level would be getting used to the controls and finding scorch and fixer, much like in the first game. From there, they need to find a command console to find anything about sev on the database, and pinpoint his location.

 

At this point, the game is set up for a level that involves fighting through kashyyyk and finding sev. DURING WHICH TIME order 66 is given around the galaxies, while the deltas are out of contact, and thus do not receive the order. This is a possible way in which THOUGHT OUT scripting can properly get around all of your easily avoidable issues by using plot devices, setting up the game for a compelling, and enjoyable story in which the protagonists REMAIN protagonists and don't turn to the empire, and thus the dark side.

 

This is a nice idea, but is still not plausible.

 

if that's too complicated for you then maybe the gaming industry is doomed to mindless shooters with no decent plot progression or unique likable characters.

 

Last time I checked I wasn't a game developer.

[Manny C]

No, because they were genetically-modified for absolute loyalty.

Thats just the thing, the deltas are not absolutely loyal, a whole concept with the game that makes the deltas heroes is how they are different through experience.

 

But in the end, who wants to play a bunch of guys who all sound, look, and act the same? One of the best parts of being in a team is the personalities of your brothers. So later than we'd like, we shifted gears (with some good suggestions from Mr. Lucas) and it ended up being the right move. Now we have a great combination of 'new clone' and 'motley crew'. Having trained together from birth on Kamino, each member of the squad starts to form their personality much like humans do, right out of the gates.

 

The whole idea of the deltas is that they are unique and NOT bland order following soldiers, just like the designer's notes say.

 

Okay so you can say things that are false, and if I correct you then I look like a fool? Got it.

yep. I dont consider being corrected for not reading "star wars insider" or knowing the Star Wars timeline off by heart that bad. And in doing so, you get off topic, make irrelevant points and generally weaken your argument.

 

I like having my intelligence insulted. Feel free to continue insulting. I like it and it makes you look way better than me.

im not trying to offend you, im trying to make a point that we should avoid the attitude that a decent story and potentially memorable game should be forfeit because starwars insider says they would follow orders, instead, lets make another bland, uninteresting FPS depending entirely on the gameplay mechanics of the first, which were barely enough to keep the game afloat to begin with.

 

This is a nice idea, but is still not plausible.

 

Why isnt it plausible? it isnt enough to just say "its not plausible". There's nothing that prevents this idea from being used. The deltas are NOT faceless grunts who follow all orders, the designer of the game and george lucas himself established that.

Last time I checked I wasn't a game developer.

no, but the more consumers, like yourself, who push for games without a decent story, the more game publishers will push them out because they assume thats what will sell.

[TK-8252]

Thats just the thing, the deltas are not absolutely loyal, a whole concept with the game that makes the deltas heroes is how they are different through experience.

 

What you say is directly contradicting what is established in AotC.

 

The whole idea of the deltas is that they are unique and NOT bland order following soldiers, just like the designer's notes say.

 

Neither are Cody or Bly... why do they follow orders and Delta Squad doesn't?

 

yep. I dont consider being corrected for not reading "star wars insider" or knowing the Star Wars timeline off by heart that bad. And in doing so, you get off topic, make irrelevant points and generally weaken your argument.

 

I'm not arguing. I'm stating the facts. It's very silly to say that someone is foolish for correcting something that's blantantly wrong.

 

im not trying to offend you, im trying to make a point that its the attitude that a decent story and potentially memorable game should be forfeit because starwars insider says they would follow orders, lets make another bland, uninteresting FPS depending entirely on the gameplay mechanics of the first, which were barely enough to keep the game afloat to begin with.

 

I'm not offended by anything, but however, I generally don't appreciate it when people post crap directed towards me. Also, I don't see why you think that just because you play as "the bad guys" then the game is going to be lame and boring. Have some faith in the developers. The original Republic Commando was great, so why do you think that the sequel won't be good unless it has YOUR storyline?

 

Why isnt it plausible? it isnt enough to just say "its not plausible". There's nothing that prevents this idea from being used. The deltas are NOT faceless grunts who follow all orders, the designer of the game and george lucas himself established that.

 

Give me one example when Delta Squad didn't follow their orders.

[Manny C]

What you say is directly contradicting what is established in AotC.

 

No it doesnt. The Deltas are NOT run of the mill clone troopers, its established so clearly by the game, on the website, by george lucas himself. The clone commandos are not conditioned and trained the same way. They say so at the start of the game, and on the website.

 

Neither are Cody or Bly... why do they follow orders and Delta Squad doesn't?

 

I don't see why you think that just because you play as "the bad guys" then the game is going to be lame and boring. Have some faith in the developers. The original Republic Commando was great, so why do you think that the sequel won't be good unless it has YOUR storyline?

 

cody and bly are "commander units", who are still normal clone troopers, but with slightly increased levels of independance, and additional leadership training.

 

 

Now ur making huge generalizations. Delta Squad don't "not follow orders", they're more independant and unique, and the way they are raised, their values were placed on brotherhood rather than on absolute loyalty. This whole argument stems from you deeming my idea for a sequel as implausible because the commandos are genetically incapable of ignoring an order, which just isnt true. Despite different origins and so on, the commandos are still humans with the capacity for human decision making, as is established on the RC website:

The clone commandos in particular showed a surprising amount of divergence in thought, personality, and general psychological make-up.

 

But the Kaminoan scientists viewed all divergence as negative. They expected their clones to be perfect copies of one another. They wanted to recondition the entire batch. However, Jango quickly pointed out that in the case of the commandos, "the sum of the parts makes the whole stronger." Indeed, commando squads with distinct personalities performed better in the Killing House and other critical test situations. The bounty hunter knew instinctively what the scientists could not grasp: the best soldiers are brothers, not clones.

 

With all this in mind, if the commandos were forced to make a choice between the orders and one of their brothers, the entire game sets up that they would choose their brother, and going the other way undermines the whole complexity of the characters. If anything, not going back for sev is implausible because it goes against the squad's most important values. THAT'S why imperial commando would be a bad idea, not because its not "my idea" or that "playing as the badguys sucks", but because the whole theme behind the squad is that these commandos, under the wishes of jango fett, were designed to value brotherhood over absolute obedience, as it makes better soldiers, and by leaving one of their own behind just because they're ordered to completely contradicts the whole precept behind the game.

 

Also i apologize if i "insulted your intelligence" but you just didnt seem to be getting the point, so i figured it might be a problem with your brain, lol sorry about that, i know ur not an idiot.

[TK-8252]

No it doesnt. The Deltas are NOT run of the mill clone troopers, its established so clearly by the game, on the website, by george lucas himself. The clone commandos are not conditioned and trained the same way. They say so at the start of the game, and on the website.

 

But Cody and Bly aren't run-of-the-mill clones either! Nor are they conditioned and trained the same as regular troopers.

 

cody and bly are "commander units", who are still normal clone troopers, but with slightly increased levels of independance, and additional leadership training.

 

To be fair, commandos are just normal Clone Troopers as well, but trained and conditioned very differently from the rest of the troopers. The commandos are identical genetically to the rest of the clones, as are the commanders such as Cody and Bly.

 

Now ur making huge generalizations. Delta Squad don't "not follow orders", they're more independant and unique, and the way they are raised, their values were placed on brotherhood rather than on absolute loyalty. This whole argument stems from you deeming my idea for a sequel as implausible because the commandos are genetically incapable of ignoring an order, which just isnt true. Despite different origins and so on, the commandos are still humans with the capacity for human decision making, as is established on the RC website:

 

With all this in mind, if the commandos were forced to make a choice between the orders and one of their brothers, the entire game sets up that they would choose their brother, and going the other way undermines the whole complexity of the characters. If anything, not going back for sev is implausible because it goes against the squad's most important values. THAT'S why imperial commando would be a bad idea, not because its not "my idea" or that "playing as the badguys sucks", but because the whole theme behind the squad is that these commandos, under the wishes of jango fett, were designed to value brotherhood over absolute obedience, as it makes better soldiers, and by leaving one of their own behind just because they're ordered to completely contradicts the whole precept behind the game.

 

I remember on the loading screen in the game as you leave Kashyyyk in the gunship, it says something to the point of "in the end, duty is more important than brotherhood." I know that's probably way off, but it was meaning that they're loyal to the Republic first, brother second.

 

so i figured it might be a problem with your brain

 

Oh THAT makes me feel a lot better.

[Manny C]

But Cody and Bly aren't run-of-the-mill clones either! Nor are they conditioned and trained the same as regular troopers.

you cant compare them, they're completely different. I dont know much about those guys but id bet they dont have the same emphasis on brotherhood, and that makes all the difference

 

 

To be fair, commandos are just normal Clone Troopers as well, but trained and conditioned very differently from the rest of the troopers. The commandos are identical genetically to the rest of the clones, as are the commanders such as Cody and Bly.

Don't you see thats the whole point?? theres more to the clones than their genetics. Through experience, the clone commandos develop completely different "thought, personality, and general psychological make-up." (quoted directly from the RC website) therefore you cant compare them to the normal troopers, nor can you compare them to cody and bly who are also completely different.

 

I remember on the loading screen in the game as you leave Kashyyyk in the gunship, it says something to the point of "in the end, duty is more important than brotherhood." I know that's probably way off, but it was meaning that they're loyal to the Republic first, brother second.

 

i dont remember that, ill have to check it out, but it completely contradicts the whole precept of the game.

 

Oh THAT makes me feel a lot better.

 

oh wah wah wah, dont accept my apology then

[TK-8252]

you cant compare them, they're completely different. I dont know much about those guys but id bet they dont have the same emphasis on brotherhood, and that makes all the difference

 

Friendship and brotherhood is very similar IMO, especially in this case. I mean, technically, it IS friendship, not brotherhood that the clones have. They aren't really brothers.

 

Don't you see thats the whole point?? theres more to the clones than their genetics. Through experience, the clone commandos develop completely different "thought, personality, and general psychological make-up." (quoted directly from the RC website) therefore you cant compare them to the normal troopers, nor can you compare them to cody and bly who are also completely different.

 

But Cody has different thought, personality, and general psychological make-up. Yes, I see your point, but to be honest I don't see how it could override your genes that are SPECIFICALLY modified to restrict you from defying orders.

 

i dont remember that, ill have to check it out, but it completely contradicts the whole precept of the game.

 

I don't see how it contradicts. The clones were created for the sole purpose of serving the Republic, and to put their personal feelings (such as brotherhood) aside. Surely during training they are taught this as such.

 

oh wah wah wah, dont accept my apology then

 

Dude, I was trying to inject some humor into this. Come on.

[Manny C]

Friendship and brotherhood is very similar IMO, especially in this case. I mean, technically, it IS friendship, not brotherhood that the clones have. They aren't really brothers.

They are in the respect that the squad was grouped together and trained together from birth, which is slightly different to a war buddy. Check out the RC website's designers notes, its all in there.

 

But Cody has different thought, personality, and general psychological make-up. Yes, I see your point, but to be honest I don't see how it could override your genes that are SPECIFICALLY modified to restrict you from defying orders.

 

Well, according to the RC website, the way they were trained and brought up developed independancy that isnt expected of the clones, so if the writers say thats the case (and keep in mind george lucas had a lot of contribution in the design of the characters), im liable to believe them. It's not unheard of that there's a continuity error for the sake of the story, in fact, George Lucas is pretty notorious for continuity errors.

 

I don't see how it contradicts. The clones were created for the sole purpose of serving the Republic, and to put their personal feelings (such as brotherhood) aside. Surely during training they are taught this as such.

 

ill put it as simply as possible. The emphasis in the game is on the squad, and the brotherhood between the squad. Hence the tagline for the game, hence the big long report on their advanced sense of brotherhood and the advantage it gives them in combat, and Jango Fett's insistance on nurturing this sense of brotherhood during their training. It says on the website, "according to Jango Fett, the final product is the sum of its parts", therefore if one gets left behind, its as though a part of them is dead, and leaving one behind contradicts their entire lives of training. Leaving sev behind just doesnt make sense.

 

Dude, I was trying to inject some humor into this. Come on.

 

miscommunication, happens all the time on forums and msn, sorry.

[TK-8252]

miscommunication, happens all the time on forums and msn, sorry.

 

No problem.

 

I think I'm just going to agree to disagree with you, because both of us seem to have exhausted our points and repeating them has gotten tiresome. Don't think that I don't understand your points, because I do, but I stick by my view that the genes are the dominant factor in the equation.

[Manny C]

alright, fair enough

[Alkova Lexis]

Actually, LucasArts is staying too quite these days. I think they're gearing up for game surprises. Next year, I think, they should announce KotOR 3, RC 2 and some new SW games.

 

If they have a KOTOR 3 coming soon, they should expand it to other game consoles. Possibly for the PS2/PS3??

[Manny C]

ps3? perhaps. Ps2? certainly not. Why go backwards graphically? anyways this isnt a KOTOR 3 discussion there are PLENTLY of those