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Naja

By Naja
in Galactic Discussion

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lukeiamyourdad Newbie

lukeiamyourdad

Posted
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A "real life" argument...if the UK buys several F - 16 Jets from the US...they are yes, in service of the RAF...but they are still US F - 16 Fighter Jets.

 

Exactly what I meant. I don't know why Windu brought up globalization...

 

 

Much the same, because Alderaan is an important world in SW, and Bail Organa is an important figure in the saga, he was given a ship that would instantly be recognised as Alderaanian. Besides, it makes sense that the Rebel Alliance uses ex-Alderaanian ships in their combat fleet - after all, they had to go somewhere when Alderaan disarms and Organa is in a good position to make them disapear.

 

 

So, since we're making assumptions, when did Alderaan disarm? It could have been since their inclusion into the Republic (1000 years). Who knows when they disarmed? I don't believe the Organa family would use a 500 year old military warship for diplomatic purposes.

 

Jan - as you should know by now, I'm not afraid of jumping into a fight I can't win.

 

 

Then why fight when you risk nothing by admitting defeat? This isn't some "glorious last stand for one's freedom". Gracious losers in debates are more respected then those who end up making a fool of themselves.

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WxDude Newbie

WxDude

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In all the star maps of the Star Wars universe I've seen, and none of them are the propper official one, cause there are none made yet, Alderaan is on the other side of the galaxy from Tatooine and Naboo.

 

Yeah...I don't know where I was going with that one.

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Darth Windu Newbie

Darth Windu

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Jan - I'm not forcing anyone to do anything, just floating my own ideas and opinions. If people agree, fine, if they don't, fine.

 

As for Star Trek and Star Wars, my mum was a huge fan of Trek so I grew up with it. Saw the OT a few times but aside from Harrison Ford as Han Solo I really didn't think much of them. Then for some reason I decided to hire out Episode 1 and got hooked. That's also why I'm a fan of the PT, but not really the OT.

 

Also, with the so-called Corellian Corvette, on the offical site there is some artwork of Organa's ship where it is called the 'Alderaan Cruiser'.

 

 

Dude - the 'essential guide' is EU. Films still don't call it the Blockade Runner. As for F-16's, the RAF doesn't use F-16's and they never have. As I said though, in SW the universe is designed so that you can instantly tell where something comes from just by looking at it. If you saw an F-16 in real life, without seeing its markings, you wouldn't know if it came from the US, Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, Greece, Belgium, Indonesia, Israel etc.

 

 

Luke - well, you'd think that with the militarisation of the Galaxy in the Clone Wars, Alderaan would have disarmed after that conflict to provide less of an overt threat to the Empire.

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WxDude Newbie

WxDude

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The Essential Guide is both. It is for the movies and the EU. So the UK doesn't use F - 16s. You missed my point. While the films might not call it the Blockade Runner...the Essential Guide does as a nickname. And, as the Essential Guide is the only official guide to the respective things, that is the only thing we have to go on.

 

 

Here is the link to the one and only official Star Wars Website it has all the information. Yes it is the EU...but it expands on the movies. Just like we are.

 

http://www.starwars.com/databank/starship/tantiveiv/?id=eu

 

 

Your point has been defeated. I sugguest you stop now.

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Logain Newbie

Logain

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windu, i'm sorry to say this, but your a tool, you know pretty much sweet bugger all, and you like the PT more than the OT, which makes you a sad fellow indeed

 

its my opinion that anyone who likes the PT more than the OT should be stabbed, shot, beaten, hung, drawn, quatered and burned for my enjoyment

 

PT = ****

 

OT= THE **** :)

 

its just that simple :)

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Jan Gaarni Newbie

Jan Gaarni

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Alright, enough of this!

 

Windu! Release him!

 

*watches Logain fall to the ground, gaspin for air*

 

This bickering is pointless.

 

Either debate propperly, or I'm closing this down. ;)

 

 

Now ....

Also, with the so-called Corellian Corvette, on the offical site there is some artwork of Organa's ship where it is called the 'Alderaan Cruiser'.

Yes, and before that it was some artwork of Han's ship, the Millenium Falcon. What's your point? ;)

 

And to further illustrate my point, you should be able to find some artwork for a star destroyer called the Victory-Class in there, which later has become to be known as the Impertor-Class (or Imperial) Star Destroyer.

 

 

EU again have gone further on that artwork and actually created a Victory-Class star destroyer, aswell as take the artwork for the first Falcon/Alderaan Cruiser/Corellian Corvette, and made the Corellian Gunship.

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WxDude Newbie

WxDude

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I sugguest this gets closed down anyway...or at least renamed. It has drifted way too far off topic.

 

Windu has been proven wrong and he won't stop. I ask that the closing of this thread be his warning.

 

And, Windu, I stopped when I couldn't debate the distance between Alderran and Tattooine.

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Darth Windu Newbie

Darth Windu

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Luke - no. Organa realises that, having just defeated the Confederacy, taken power away from the Senate and having a huge military to back him up, Palpatine shouldn't be overtly challenged. Therefore, he decides that Alderaan should disarm so when Palpatine goes looking for a threat, he won't be looking at Alderaan. That way, he can participate covertly in the Rebel Alliance without too many Imperial entanglements.

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lukeiamyourdad Newbie

lukeiamyourdad

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Luke - no. Organa realises that, having just defeated the Confederacy, taken power away from the Senate and having a huge military to back him up, Palpatine shouldn't be overtly challenged. Therefore, he decides that Alderaan should disarm so when Palpatine goes looking for a threat, he won't be looking at Alderaan. That way, he can participate covertly in the Rebel Alliance without too many Imperial entanglements.

 

But then he puts his entire planet in jeopardy by leaving it defenseless against even threats from the Rebel. Why not keep your military production, sell some to the Empire, perhaps of lower quality and then give away your better elements to the Rebels. He can supply them better by not disarming.

 

Besides, Leia mentions the Alderaanians being a peaceful culture, why would they make warships? Defend against the Confederacy? Why? You have the Republic Army right there to defend you. At most you have a small defense force like the Naboo, like them, Alderaan probably never had a decent fighting force.

 

Still, you haven't answered why an Alderaanian senator wouldn't be able to buy a Corellian ship.

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BattleDamage Newbie

BattleDamage

Posted
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Juggernaut - so are you also saying that A-wings, B-wings, X-wings, Y-wings, Alderaanian Corevette's, Escort Friagtes, Heavy Transports, Snowspeeders, and Mon Calamari Cruisers are all Imperial in origin?

 

lol just to annoy u windu, the x wing IS imperial in origin but was captured by alliance personnel when some of the designers defected

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Darth Windu Newbie

Darth Windu

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luke - no it doesn't. What you need to do is learn about how politics and Military forces operate and then jump back in.

 

First off, there is no threat to Alderaan from the Rebels because Alderaan is a covertly Rebel planet.

 

By not having any military weapons, they pose no overt threat to Palpatine, and so would pretty much fly under the radar, leaving them more-or-less free to do what they want.

 

Pre-Clone Wars and during the Clone Wars they would have had weapons to defend themselves. Sure, there was the Grand Army of the Republic, but it can't be everywhere, so the Alderaanians like everyone else would have had their own small armed forces specifically to defend themselves.

 

As for an Alderaanian Senator buying a Corellian ship, so why aren't Padme's ships Corellian? Point is, which you still ignore, that in Sci-Fi/Fanatsy series, EACH FACTION IS GIVEN THEIR OWN UNIQUE DESIGN ETHOS. This is so audiences can instantly recognise them as being Republic, Imperial, Naboo etc. In addition, you'd be looking at pride. Alderaan is probably a pretty important planet, and so they're going to send their Senator in a ship from another system, while little Naboo can send their's in a Naboo-made ship. Don't think so sport.

 

 

Jan - quite true Jan, but here there is a difference. When the Star Destroyer was known as a Victory, that was before the films, so therefore nothing to contradict it. However, EU has been calling this ship the Corellian Corvette for a long time, and yet, knowing that, the artwork for RotS specifically calls in the Alderaan Cruiser. Big difference.

 

 

Dude - cut it out. I don't really care about what you say in response to my arguments, as long as it is responding to my arguments.

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darthfergie Newbie

darthfergie

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lol, what a crazy thread this has turned into.

I'd say that Lucas tried a little to hard to develop themes in the Prequels because it's come back to bite him with theorists like Windu who reject the notion that the imperials would make anything that wasn't wedge shaped or had any organic feel to it. While it would be nice to say that that was the case, it clearly isn't. In the Original trilogy models were thrown together with old battleship parts etc, where as in the prequels the modelers have the luxury of figuring out how to curve the engine placement so that it transitions nicely with the naboo fighter and the wedge shapes coming into Episode III.

Personally I never was excited about any of the new fighters shown in the prequels. All of them with the exception of Episode I seemed very forced so that they could show a "natural progression" of the shape to grow into star destroyers, etc. Since when is there a natural progression? Since when do trucks look like convertables? Since when do tractors look like minivans? In our culture today there are so many wide varieties of designs in car manufacturing. So many different shapes. From the curves of American cars, to the box shapes of many Asian cars, to the aerodinamics of F-1 racers. I think the Original trilogy better simulated a real world with such a diverse amount of shapes and sizes that carry over into the expanded universe. Where as the Prequels just feel totally unnatural. The only unique designs you find in the prequels are on speeders and such, and even many of those arn't all that original and hark back to many sci-fi movies.

The Prequels lacked originality sadly, which perverts the view of the later Empire and Rebel forces to one where you look for the shapes and the trends and assume it was completed just as forcefully as the Prequels were and that's where you find Darth Windu's arguements.

 

Windu, if I were you I wouldn't look at the Prequels and the Original Trilogy as connecting all that well. In fact I'd say build in a great deal of looseness into the connectivity of the two trilogies, or else you'll never be satisfied with either trilogy.

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Dagobahn Eagle Newbie

Dagobahn Eagle

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Posted
Actually, it was manufactured by Incom. My guess is that the Z-95 and the ARC-170 were somehow combined to create the X-Wing.

Yup. InCom Corporations developed the X-Wing for the Imperials, but then a group of developers defected to the Alliance, taking at least one X-Wing with them, along with all research material on it.

 

The X-Wing derives from the Z-95, yes, but with that strange fighter in Episode III showing up, I suppose we have to say the ARC-170 derived from the Z-95, and that the X-Wing derived from the ARC-170.

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