Views on Jedi

[Imoras]

Excuse me? You guys carried the conversation in that direction. I merely observed what was said and responded to it. If you want to define this for me please do so in the thread that stoffe made for that.

 

 

Doh

As i SAID i refered to the jedi

I didn't read back on the topic so i have NO IDEA what you guys were talking about

So i didn't carry any conversation in any direction

Why everybody assumes i am talking to them!? I was just answering the thread question

[Darth Avlectus]

Well, Jedis keep repeating their cycle of destruction/rebuild in history, inot unlike the sith. Even though Luke seems to be wise, he is also turning more dogmatic slowly(well thank god he still allows romance though).

 

Maybe it is the will of the force that the eternal struggle of the Jedi/Sith continues.

 

Granted I am ot a followed of Bane's teaching, an order growing too large has its problem. For the Sith the problem is obvious, but at least you can see it coming. For the Jedi, it would be their slow response to the world around them.

 

YOU got it. That's my whole deal about grey jedi: we see that, even though there are reasons on both sides, reality is variable, oscillatory in nature. The WISEST of Jedi and Sith realize that ultimately the rule of either one cannot last forever. Not that I am necessarily saying you should just join the other side, fight for what you believe in by all means.

 

So far as love and hate is concerned, it's sort of the same deal.

 

I'm not excusing any crimes by any means, hitler stalin, or your sex offenders, jonathan7. When I said that there is ways that sith and jedi beliefs could work together--I menat in such a way that it didn't contradict (and I'm pretty sure I said that too). Conflict betters everybody--if they can learn from the problem and not become part of it. I think it is the will of the force--or whatever the highest existential power that be-- for us to solve problems and encounter conflict. Existence becomes flat dull and eventually meaningless without conflicts.

 

Is it truly possible to realize happiness, without there too being suffering?

 

BTW, jonathan7, have you see those anti- Star Wars jesus freaks? Whaddya think? (They are probably looking over these forums and dispising each and every one of us right now--and we're probably all going to hell in their opinion. IMO--we're already here. )

 

At any rate, I simply think there should be someone amongst jedi who DOES understand love and attachment first hand-- sort of like dark woman who understood the dark side, saw and embraced a "larger view" of the force--but without the corruption. I think it should be so, for more catagories.

 

That would be the best contingency, a few unorthodox who can reach those that the life-long cellebates cannot.

 

So far as sith. The way they have been portrayed is like satanics. To tint this thoguh, consider (I'm not trying to corrupt anybody, here, either): Demonologists claim that demons were actually just living, breathing, feeling beings like humans or anything else. Have we, over time, moved to using demon as a term to describe evil creatures based upon what may have been once a fallacy of hasty generalization or scapegoating? That demons were just another self aware life form? And that evil is seperate form demons? (It at least makes you think, doesn't it?)

I'd agree. There are some beings out there, I'm sure, that have no good in them. Who knows? Maybe another life form will come along and humans on earth before our extinction will be evil. Then the beings can do the same as we have for demons, and call their evildoers "humans".

 

Simply put, evil is evil, even without demons. Why is there evil? Perhaps that answer resides (as it always will) in that there is the ability to choose amongst the self-aware.

 

I'm sure, though, if sith exercised some sort of degree of control over their desire and passion--like directing it constructively (which some sorta have, but things haven't worked out for them), they'd do fine. Remember that sith were a powerful but malleable species. Dark jedi exiles proclaimed themselves their lords.

 

To the greatest degree, the evil-doer itself is to blame. To a lesser degree, those who can stop them for the folly of not doing so.

 

The jedi don't believe in executing (well, some don't). I can see how they let loose the first dark exiles, who eventually were to wreak havoc with sith creatures. I'd guess the crimes of those dark siders were not bad enough for execution?

 

Some would say that the jedi should have forseen their actions and the actions of the dark exiles. The future is always in motion--some things are hard or even impossible to see. The dark exiles may have turned gradually more and more. When they were cast out, they may have just been complacent. Over time they got more and more corrupt and too far removed from the jedi. OR maybe the jedi had slight attatchment (in the form of brotherhood an hopefulness) as they are known for compassion implied in their nature, hoping the dark exiles in time would either be good or just go away forever.

 

That is a byproduct of the jedi.

 

 

It was the will of the force in the movies how anakin shaped up. But even so, if it wasn't the will of the force, Obi was facing the conflict within and without--not just in his cares and feelings for Anakin, but over his ethical and moral beliefs. Anakin turned Vader was obviously a danger and should have been destroyed, but there was still good in him... The collateral damage was the byproduct of obi-wan's inaction, hoping the steep embankment and lava would do what he didn't have the heart to do.

 

Some argued that the galaxy would have been better off if Obi had killed Ani...I think Obi would have either turned to the darkside from the pain, or more likely, killed himself.

 

Why do you think sidious needed Anakin/Vader (aside from the obvious) to be the vioce of his republic --err empire? He needed some voice to make the establishment seem fair (fair enough--for a time) in order to keep stability.

 

It's all taking the bad with the good.

[SilentScope001]

For people who argue about the world going into cycles, is it possible that there is a life after the good people go to Heaven, where there would be terror bombings in Heaven and a civil war between the Heaven Confedrates and the Heaven Alliance? How could an infinite cycle suddenly goes and stop continunig?

 

YOU got it. That's my whole deal about grey jedi: we see that, even though there are reasons on both sides, reality is variable, oscillatory in nature. The WISEST of Jedi and Sith realize that ultimately the rule of either one cannot last forever. Not that I am necessarily saying you should just join the other side, fight for what you believe in by all means.

 

But, true neturality doesn't really exist. Jolee signed up with the LS when provoked and Kreia embraced the DS at the end of TSL in order to complete her goals. You have to ally with the LS or DS anyway, so there is no true person who can join the Grey alignment permenantly. You have to choose a side and fight.

 

I think the only two person (the WISE Jedi and Sith) that actually believed that the rule of the Sith and the Jedi won't last forever is Jolee (possibly) and Darth Traya, aka Kreia. Jolee still fought in the never-ending war anyway, to delay the rise of the DS. Kreia wanted to break this cycle by destroying the Force and its will.

 

Existence becomes flat dull and eventually meaningless without conflicts.

 

As I said, I would rather be bored to death than burnt to death. A dull and meanignless life is better than a life of misery that George Lucas has brought upon the Galaxy.

 

And even so, how about the conflicts George Lucas had for the evil patheic Diversty Alliance, or "the idiotic supervillian of the week", in which one person say, "I hate Jedi!" and then that person get smashed by a Jedi task force, and everyone is very happy at the end of the story. This is still conflict, but it is a conflict where no one gets hurt.

 

Why did George Lucas change this? Why did George Lucas cause a real threat to rise? For the money.

 

Some argued that the galaxy would have been better off if Obi had killed Ani...

 

Then how could he bring about the end, how could he destroy the Sith? Obi screamed that Ani betrayed him, that he was supposed to be the Chosen One, who would destroy the Sith! And that was why Obi spared Ani, because Obi believed that Ani was the Chosen One, and that somehow, Ani will destroy the Sith, so Obi had to spare him anyway. Obi hates the Sith, after all.

 

Wait. Maybe, Ani has destroyed the Sith in a more secret manner. By destroying the Jedi, the Sith has no more reason for existing. Their vengance settled, they now feel content and happy...and it is their laziness that cause the Sith to finally get destroyed.

[Darth Avlectus]

For people who argue about the world going into cycles, is it possible that there is a life after the good people go to Heaven, where there would be terror bombings in Heaven and a civil war between the Heaven Confedrates and the Heaven Alliance? How could an infinite cycle suddenly goes and stop continunig?

 

Why don't you just call me on it directly? Is there someone else you also address here?

 

An infinite cycle, light & dark, good and evil, flat and animate, etc. etc., to stop continuing? My only thought is, in utter nothingness. Nothingness is well nothing--it does not exist...but we DO exist, as does the cycle of infinity. You do believe god simply always was and will always be, don't you?

 

...the way I see it, the infinite cycle is a heartbeat of sorts. Perhaps that's God's heartbeat?

 

 

A heaven that (again) has a war inside it? Absolutely possible it could one day happen (again). So long as there is choice between multiple beings and the possiblity disagreement.

 

Are you part of that "one day ALL evil will be destroyed, never to return" crowd?

 

Then I have some questions for you:

When the next glory age is here, what will stop it from eventually dimming out?

What will keep those enjoying the peace remembering WHY and HOW they have it after awhile?

What will make them preserve it?

How will things of the past not become distorted after awhile--Ignorance?

 

Even when good reigns supreme, there is always that possiblity of evil that can never be abated, and likewise for good when evil reigns supreme.

So long as intellegent life (that being self aware and able to make choices) exists there, will always be a possiblity of either one.

Again, evil (though I did neglect to also say GOOD last time) is a possibility of the ability to choose.

An infinite cycle is the breath, and heartbeat, pretty much of all existence. It doesn't take a genius to figure that one out. Some things cannot BE stopped. It's like killing off all intellegent life to prevent evil from ever happening again--I think we know how that ends up: like genocidal Hitler.

 

History has shown that no establishment has stood forever nor has anarchy, nor has freedom, or oppression. Anything that can go wrong (regardless if it is for evil or good), WILL.

 

But, true neturality doesn't really exist. Jolee signed up with the LS when provoked and Kreia embraced the DS at the end of TSL in order to complete her goals. You have to ally with the LS or DS anyway, so there is no true person who can join the Grey alignment permenantly. You have to choose a side and fight.

 

And those that have no goals and die a death as meaningless as their life?

There's true neutrality, permanently; I suppose pretty pathetic, tho. I never said it could reign permanently. But realize, that a polarity one way or another cannot either.

 

Grey is something that must be decided upon personally. In the end, possibly not an option. I won't discount that much; eventually things go one way or another. And for most--you'll just have to see which way it all goes, one way or another. Be mindful every rise has a fall.

I never said that the grey area would last forever--though interesting to see how long it lasts. That is where all the struggle and life giving (and killing) conflict is.

 

I think the only two person (the WISE Jedi and Sith) that actually believed that the rule of the Sith and the Jedi won't last forever is Jolee (possibly) and Darth Traya, aka Kreia. Jolee still fought in the never-ending war anyway, to delay the rise of the DS. Kreia wanted to break this cycle by destroying the Force and its will.

 

Point taken. And we all saw what happened, didn't we?

 

 

 

As I said, I would rather be bored to death than burnt to death. A dull and meanignless life is better than a life of misery that George Lucas has brought upon the Galaxy.

 

WAIT! WHO was just lecturing about needing to make a choice? THAT is a neutrality if I've ever heard one--even if it is polarized to the light side (or dark)--an existence of only good (or evil) doesn't last forever, so it may just as well be neutral. Neutral is not necessarily a dynamic of countering extremes. It could be a static state as well. Could be either, or both, or something else completely beyond our comprehension.

 

You might very well burn yourself to death from the boredom??? Dull and meaningless life may be YOUR way of living, but realize death waits around every corner. Being the good guy means you still get killed--and not always honorably or in a blaze of glory.

 

And even so, how about the conflicts George Lucas had for the evil patheic Diversty Alliance, or "the idiotic supervillian of the week", in which one person say, "I hate Jedi!" and then that person get smashed by a Jedi task force, and everyone is very happy at the end of the story. This is still conflict, but it is a conflict where no one gets hurt.

Why did George Lucas change this? Why did George Lucas cause a real threat to rise? For the money.

 

Say what? OK, now you're going somewhere else I have no idea about.......and Using Ad Hominems on uncle George no less... But as for the $$$, OF COURSE! Why else do you think franchises exist!? To survive! Sure they please the fans, but there is the side of necessity. Is there not?

 

Then how could he bring about the end, how could he destroy the Sith? Obi screamed that Ani betrayed him, that he was supposed to be the Chosen One, who would destroy the Sith! And that was why Obi spared Ani, because Obi believed that Ani was the Chosen One, and that somehow, Ani will destroy the Sith, so Obi had to spare him anyway. Obi hates the Sith, after all.

 

Wait. Maybe, Ani has destroyed the Sith in a more secret manner. By destroying the Jedi, the Sith has no more reason for existing. Their vengance settled, they now feel content and happy...and it is their laziness that cause the Sith to finally get destroyed.

 

OK? Now you're just going off on my suppositions, but so be it.

Anakin was so bent on justice, that he was blinded to reality.

 

Some wise old man once told me, "He who hunts monsters had better take care not to, himself, become a monster." I don't see that this is any different.

 

THAT is the premise of why he fell. What killed Padme' was that the man she loved had come to embody her worst nightmares. She just wanted him and his love--Anakin couldn't see that was what she needed. He thought this 'new power' could do it--which for all anyone knows could have been a lie, just a legend.

 

I can't say life and energy are one and the same, life depends upon Energy, but can be created. Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. But the power sidious spoke of sounds an awful lot like force drain taking energy from the universe, and then a hapless counterpart diminishing somewhere because of it--eventually a chain reaction would happen and weave destruction back to the source that caused the fluctuation in the first place.

YES he would lie--Sidious is THAT evil. Someone had to do the dirty work!

 

Plageis may have been creating life, but he had to take energy from the universe to do it...Energy drained--life somewhere else needed it and idn't get it; hence, somewhere else the "hapless counterpart" diminishes...then things happen as a result and weave so forth--how it all works, one can only speculate...but the force works in perhaps mysterious ways...then eventually his apprentice was affected and killed him in his sleep.

 

I won't deny (in fact I will support), based upon the collective actions of palpatine (including planting seeds of doubt in the deleted scenes), that he knew this was the conclusion. In order to save Vader, another would have to give up life.......

 

His rumored "archane sith healing techinque" he used to heal Vader, contributed to Padme's death. Perhaps that is why she lost the will to live; she saw what little there was of Anakin and willed him to live, to see him and love him again. And that through that action, her life slowly drained into the galaxy, and the galaxy drained into Anakin's (and Vader's) life... while Sidious used the sheer mechanics of the force drained the life from the galaxy and funneled it for his apprentice........and possibly even knew what he was doing all along, given the wisdom of his evil.

Why? She embodied the life of democracy for the republic. And so would her offspring... Seeing motive yet?

"The Emperor knew, as I did, that if Anakin were to have any offspring, they'd be a threat to him."--Kenobi

 

And of course, the action sidious took to save Vader came 'round again in his motive to kill another similar to padme' in some way... Gee,

I wonder what way that is?

Can you guess WHO that was? :)

 

Remember the part "A prophecy that misread could have been" ?

I doubt on mustafar that Obi-Wan felt Vader was much or any of a chosen one at that point... and any feeling he had for what little was left of anakin had pretty much dissolved in ep 4. What hadn't was regret--but that DOES NOT mean he saw the future. And Obi probably felt that what was left of anakin was too little to make a difference, and too far gone and buried in darkness. Sure there was that regret from his ghost on Degobah in ROTJ--but that didn't mean he saw the future in a crystal clear ball. Having the ability to use the force DOES NOT grant anyone the ability to be ever forseeing of everything. "Always in motion, the future is," no?

If anything, he probably felt that he was responsible for an everlasting doom upon the galaxy. Bitter. --Though I can imagine how much lightening of a load he must have felt to see that little part of anakin come back, and then to see Skywalker's force apparition appear as he merged with the force.

 

 

Point being--you are giving too much credit to the characters and their foresight and foreknowledge where it may not necessarily exist. The story is a tragedy, and NOBODY saw the answer the WHOLE time, as you seem to imply.

Suppose, If Anakin were killed, the rest of the universe moves on and it finds a way to absolve/dissolve/solve or otherwise deal with the crisis? Is it too much to ask you to think outside the 'pre-destination' box? Aye Porfavore?!

 

Sure it was the will of the force (while George and the universe in general decry that the good guys eventually win in the stories)-- the story was about the most unlikely of happenings being realized.

Were it not, there are so many other possibilities that are more likely.

 

All in a day's work...

[JediMaster12]

Doh

As i SAID i refered to the jedi

I didn't read back on the topic so i have NO IDEA what you guys were talking about

So i didn't carry any conversation in any direction

Why everybody assumes i am talking to them!? I was just answering the thread question

When you post a general comment that says you guys, people are going to assume that you are talking to them. When you said religious fanatics, people took it to mean that you were heading into the realm of religion itself and now we have a nice thread in Ahto on Ethics and Religion taken from the posts that were here.

 

As to the topic, it is exactly what the title suggests, views on the Jedi. i started it off as a means to see what other people think of the Jedi. Now it flowed in the direction in terms of the Jedi Code and the Sith Code and alignment and the like. Popular examples to use are Jacen Solo and Anakin Skywalker.

 

As for me, I merely respond to the comments suggested and ask questions. It would be best if you read some of the posts better, especially the current ones.

 

An infinite cycle, light & dark, good and evil, flat and animate, etc. etc., to stop continuing? My only thought is, in utter nothingness. Nothingness is well nothing--it does not exist...but we DO exist, as does the cycle of infinity. You do believe god simply always was and will always be, don't you?

Everything exists in a cycle. Yes this is cliched to the Circle of Life thing but take a look at today. The seasons cycle back always: spring, summer, fall, winter and back. With the Sith v Jedi, classic good v. evil, it is always there. I speak in terms of balance in that you can't have one without the other but the time for evil to reign and for good to reign is cyclical too. Look at the SW universe that is rich in examples.

 

The thing is the world is full opposites. Both are needed to make the world function. The leson of yin and yang better accentuates this and I can't help but wonder if Lucas considered this whe he wrote Star Wars.

 

My apologies if I misunderstood the meaning of the post.

[SilentScope001]

Here we go! Hell and Heaven in Star Wars! It seems to be in Corellian mythology!

 

The Afterlife (Neterhlands of the Force): http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Netherworld_of_the_Force

 

The Netherworld of the Force was the place the souls of Force-sensitives, and presumably all sentient beings, apparently went after their physical bodies died. It was a realm covered in thick fog, which prevented the spirits there from seeing more than a few feet in front of them. Qui-Gon Jinn went to this realm after dying, but managed to return from it back to the physical universe as a Force ghost. Obi-Wan Kenobi's spirit departed to this realm after having one final talk with Luke Skywalker in 9 ABY. Yoda was also seen in this realm, where he reunited the recently deceased Vila with her brother Denin and promised he would train both of them.

 

Chaos was considered to be a region of the netherworld where dark side spirits, such as those of former Dark Lords of the Sith were thought to inhabit upon death.

 

Chaos...aka, Hell: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Chaos

 

So, Hm. I wonder. If the cycle of violence continues, then there is no way out, not even death. I was just wondering that.

 

Maybe it would be fun to set a game in that area. "Ghosts of the Netherlands" anyone?

[JediMaster12]

I can't find that chapter in the Koran.

Wrong book

 

Silent Scope that was an interesting definition on the Netherworld of the Force. The whole fog thing though has me mystified in that they can't see anything. Huh...

[Darth Xenus]

The Jedi way of protecting the weak is against the laws of naure, against the Force itself. The Sith are a force of nature, survival of the fittest. Society is filled with weaklings who canot contribute anything, but yet expect to be looked after. Why should we help them and get nothing in return? The Jedi let go of all emotion, they kill in cold blood, unlike the Sith who have a more honest reason for their killings. The coldness of the Jedi and their lack of passion is an abomination of life. Indeed, the Jedi DO have passion, a passion to protect and serve. So by following their own teachings, they should be unable to protect, they serve only to create endless paradoxes and to infest the universe with weaklings. Just like these 'politically correct' idiots in our own world.

[Nancy Allen``]

So the answer is obvious: plunge the galaxy into war and hope whoever comes out the other side is stronger. That worked real well.

[SilentScope001]

The Jedi way of protecting the weak is against the laws of naure, against the Force itself. The Sith are a force of nature, survival of the fittest. Society is filled with weaklings who canot contribute anything, but yet expect to be looked after. Why should we help them and get nothing in return? The Jedi let go of all emotion, they kill in cold blood, unlike the Sith who have a more honest reason for their killings. The coldness of the Jedi and their lack of passion is an abomination of life. Indeed, the Jedi DO have passion, a passion to protect and serve. So by following their own teachings, they should be unable to protect, they serve only to create endless paradoxes and to infest the universe with weaklings. Just like these 'politically correct' idiots in our own world.

 

But since the Jedi has a passion, to protect the weak, this means that the Jedi actually embraced the Dark Side, in fact much more than the Sith. The Sith try to supress their desire to protect the weak, making them weaker.

 

No wonder the Jedi always win! The Jedi always are more evil than the Sith.

[JediMaster12]

The Sith are a force of nature, survival of the fittest. Society is filled with weaklings who canot contribute anything, but yet expect to be looked after. Why should we help them and get nothing in return?

You have obviously been reading too much into Social Darwinism which is a complete misreading of Darwin's theory of natural selection.

 

No wonder the Jedi always win! The Jedi always are more evil than the Sith.

And I thought the Jedi were concerned with the greater good complex. You know the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one as so logic dictates

[Allronix]

Not everyone's a warrior. A warrior still needs a farmer to grow his food. A predator dies if there is a lack of prey or the plants prey feed upon. A warrior needs a smith to make his weapons and armor, a miner to get the materials, and a caravan to bring it to the smith.

 

My sister's Gray Jedi character ("recovering bastard" was how he described himself) had the theory that Force ability was what the universe gave those who didn't have talents to do anything else. He was in awe of people who could pilot ships or create fine art.

 

Also, nature is capable of great altruism as well. There are countless stories of dogs and cats saving their humans. A barren lioness adopted antalope cubs. Elephants care for their sick and grieve for their dead, caressing the bones. There is no "survival" advantage in this, at least for the individual. Nature is a doubled-edged thing.

[PoiuyWired]

Well, that is only half true, as some are more important than the others, individualize. It would be obvious that the Death of a Jedi/Sith would mean alot more in the grand scheme of things than, say, some stinkin bantha herder in some outer rim world. Just cause the bahtna herder is easily replacable, and the Jedi/Sith Not.

 

Yes I do know about the theory that a Jedi/Sith may start small as a simple slaveboy, but the chance of that vs a current jedi/sith that is saving/whacking life everyday...

 

So in other words, sometimes a Jedi's so-called "sacrifice" to the weak maybe wrong, for his own life would worth more in the grand scheme of things, if he were to survive and fight(or do good) another day.

 

And Allronix, your examples are interesting. I remember reading those in a research about sentience in animals. It is indeed interesting how some loke dolphins have the idea of self awareness and fun and temperment and problem solving and language and tools and what not... I would imagine the topic would be of great importance in the Star Wars world, oh well.

[Darth Avlectus]

 

Everything exists in a cycle. Yes this is cliched to the Circle of Life thing but take a look at today. The seasons cycle back always: spring, summer, fall, winter and back. With the Sith v Jedi, classic good v. evil, it is always there. I speak in terms of balance in that you can't have one without the other but the time for evil to reign and for good to reign is cyclical too. Look at the SW universe that is rich in examples.

 

The thing is the world is full opposites. Both are needed to make the world function. The leson of yin and yang better accentuates this and I can't help but wonder if Lucas considered this whe he wrote Star Wars.

 

My apologies if I misunderstood the meaning of the post.

 

You did not misunderstand--that's exactly my point. You may be polarized to the light, but I can see you understand this concept.

 

It's not an excuse to just simply do whatever you want without any regard to anything or anyone. If saying that makes me more lightside, then so be it: but do not take that as weakness. From myself or anybody. Simply understanding it and having that position on it does not make one lightside. Or prevent them from the darkside.

 

 

 

But since the Jedi has a passion, to protect the weak, this means that the Jedi actually embraced the Dark Side, in fact much more than the Sith. The Sith try to supress their desire to protect the weak, making them weaker.

 

No wonder the Jedi always win! The Jedi always are more evil than the Sith.

 

[/Quote]

 

Although I know what the jedi mean when they say certain things--I figure just for laughs I'll take a few things out of context.

 

Analogy: The jedi say that the dark side is weaker; and the jedi also say they protect the weak. Could it be that they protect the sith?

[PoiuyWired]

Darn, you took that joke away from my mouth.

But as said, the act of sacrifice to protect the weak, is an act of passion on its own. SO I guess the Jedi would conveniently disern some aspact of passion so that they would stay a functional religion?

[Darth Avlectus]

Darn, you took that joke away from my mouth.

But as said, the act of sacrifice to protect the weak, is an act of passion on its own. SO I guess the Jedi would conveniently disern some aspact of passion so that they would stay a functional religion?

 

I'm sure you'll come up with something and beat me to the punch someday.

 

THAT is interesting. I guess I would have to say it 'appears' to be so.

Sort of like the old attage that went a little something like, "Happiness is not perfection, rather it is accepting despite flaws."

Sometimes an excuse to leave certain things in our lives be, but not always.

 

I'd rather think it is a wise choice, especially to silence the petty or to make people open their eyes and see things as they really are and accept what they or anybody cannot change--like the inevitabilities in the whole circle of life thing.

 

I mean, don't get me wrong, pushing yourself and living up to your fullest potential--and remembering it for the rest of your life-- is something everyone should strive to do...even if only once. However, there comes a point... A point at which certain things are just not worth the trouble.

 

Some would call this the point of "Diminishing Marginal Utility"--err it's just something you learn in economics to see that for given effort, the result will only be so beneficial as it can to that point. Then the benefit begins to dissapear--perhaps even work in the reverse direction. Around here would be wise to make a decision (I.E. to STOP giving effort might actually prevent harmful results). Simply put; Marginalizing. To leave well enough alone.

 

I think you get my point. So I'll not nauzeate you people with any details.

 

The jedi--though advising against passions-- do not appear to be devoid of them, nor do they want to be. They are wise enough to see that the ret of the world does not, and cannot, live like them. Shall we say they have it down to a science of what yeilds desired effects?

[Darth Xenus]

Social Darwinism? No, this is what I think. The weak exist exist to be the fuel of the strong:

 

Say for example, you are stranded on an island. You are fit and healthy, however you are also extremely hungry, having not eaten for two days. You then see an injured deer lying on the beach. It has lost a leg and has some wounds. It is unable to move. What do you do? Do ou kill it and eat, saving your own life, or do you go and find some food for it so that you die but it survives?

 

Life is conflict. It is an eternal battle against the grave. Its you or the other guy.The Sith embody this. Their system is in perfect harmony with nature. Whereas the Jedi do far more harm to he natural order of things. The Sith such as Malak and Vader are not true Sith, they kill without reason when it gives no advantage. The Sith code calls for a desire for power and domination, for a will to live that surpasses all else, not for needless killing. Just like nature, every time a true Sith kills, that death serves a purpose.

[Nancy Allen``]

So explain to me that Sith you encounter on Korriban who kills everyone they can, just because they can. How does that work in the grand scheme of things?

[SilentScope001]

So explain to me that Sith you encounter on Korriban who kills everyone they can, just because they can. How does that work in the grand scheme of things?

 

They are inspired by Malak, a false Sith. A Sith taught by a False Sith...is a False Sith. They are not Sith.

 

The possiblity of the True Sith's main goal to take over the universe...that sounds pretty interesting. I remember reading an article that argues that Palpatine is actually the Good Guy in Star Wars and the Rebels were the Bad Guys. (And judging from the fact that all the people who supported the Republic during the movies joined up with the Empire during the Legacy series...maybe he is right). But then again, it still leads up to the point:

 

Are the Jedi evil? They embrace passion, and passion is evil according to you. Are they trying to take over the galaxy? Well, of course, they have a Council, and already run the galaxy, and, during the Great Hyperspace War, called themselves "Jedi Lords".

 

The Jedi Order must be the True Sith! We must attack the Jedi Order while it is weak and save the galaxy!

[Nancy Allen``]

Who would be true Sith? Palpatine? Who kills for pleasure? Revan? Who seeks to save the galaxy by strengthening it? Vader, who argueably does the same thing? The world has been turned upside down in the way that what is meant to be good is seen as evil and what is evil is treated as good, but I'll be a corpse before I accept the Jedi being evil and the Sith good.

[SilentScope001]

Who would be true Sith? Palpatine? Who kills for pleasure? Revan? Who seeks to save the galaxy by strengthening it? Vader, who argueably does the same thing? The world has been turned upside down in the way that what is meant to be good is seen as evil and what is evil is treated as good, but I'll be a corpse before I accept the Jedi being evil and the Sith good.

 

So would I, but I'm just having fun with his belief. The idea of the Jedi being secret Dark Side Users would be highly ironic.

[PoiuyWired]

Well, if killing would horn your skills, or even make you feel better then there is apurpose isn't it?

 

Point: No Jedi/Sith ever live fully up to their code. So its a world in shades of grey(and other colors) There is only force wielders that are Jedier or Sither.

[JediMaster12]

Social Darwinism? No, this is what I think. The weak exist exist to be the fuel of the strong:

 

Say for example, you are stranded on an island. You are fit and healthy, however you are also extremely hungry, having not eaten for two days. You then see an injured deer lying on the beach. It has lost a leg and has some wounds. It is unable to move. What do you do? Do ou kill it and eat, saving your own life, or do you go and find some food for it so that you die but it survives?

 

Life is conflict. It is an eternal battle against the grave. Its you or the other guy.The Sith embody this. Their system is in perfect harmony with nature. Whereas the Jedi do far more harm to he natural order of things. The Sith such as Malak and Vader are not true Sith, they kill without reason when it gives no advantage. The Sith code calls for a desire for power and domination, for a will to live that surpasses all else, not for needless killing. Just like nature, every time a true Sith kills, that death serves a purpose.

Social Darwinism Duh!

You speak of survival of the fittest. That is a complete misconstruation of the theory of natural selection. Yes life is a series of conflict and be as it were you are also implying a bit of Lamarck.

 

The Sith rely on their passion to fuel their power. Taking from experience, passion as a fuel source tends to be more energy draining on the body. You wear yourself ragged hence my emotional breakdown five years ago. Yep, the AP system got to me. Anyway if this is true for the Sith then in a sense they would weaken especially over time considering that passion fuel drains more out of the body. You of course could justify it with a well placed Force Drain but even that will sap you in energy.

 

Domination to rule over everything but at what cost? Yes you could argue that the democracy of the Republic is a domination of some sort but the difference is that the Republic wouldn't infringe upon the rights, the certain inalienable rights that people hold dear, what the Declaration of Independence defines as life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Yeah you could say that people would be happy under the rule of a Sith Lord but history shows that if it seems not to directly affect them, then they won't care.

 

When you say that death serves a purpose, you are speaking of the life cycles I mentioned earlier, the circle of life as it were. We are born, we live and then we die. Yes that is the way of thing. To be more philosophical, what you make of life decides whether it is fulfilling and all that junk. The Jedi value a life in harmony and balance with their surroundings much like what you said. You seek to justify it in terms of death whereas the Jedi justify it in terms of life. In the end, they are the opposites of the same coin.

[Nancy Allen``]

So would I, but I'm just having fun with his belief. The idea of the Jedi being secret Dark Side Users would be highly ironic.

 

This has been played around with in KOTOR, as you probably know. Atris and the Jedi Masters being...not right while still portraying themselves as Jedi. Atris more Sith than the others, not sure what to class them as except for wanting to stop the Exile for good.

[SilentScope001]

This has been played around with in KOTOR, as you probably know. Atris and the Jedi Masters being...not right while still portraying themselves as Jedi. Atris more Sith than the others, not sure what to class them as except for wanting to stop the Exile for good.

 

True, but the Jedi Masters (with the exception of Atris) were Light Sided, even when they betrayed my LSF Exile. (They were not as "Blue" as my LSF Exile, when I used Force Sight, but they were Blue enough.) But them secretly using the Dark Side, while still remaining good...

 

JediMaster21, I think you are misreading Social Darwinism (which is ironically somewhat of a misread of Darwinism, altough Darwin did write a book exposuing some of its tenants). Social Darwinism states that certain "races" (this could be any group of people, even class distinctions) of mankind were savages while other "races" of mankind were civilized. They were civilized because they have evovled, and gained certain trait, such as intelligence, greatness, etc. Savages, well, haven't evovled. It is inevitlbe that intelligent races would dominate savage races.

 

Social Darwinism, actually, MIGHT be a part of Star Wars as well...judging from the fact that The Force can be inherited, and the Force makes one very, very powerful.

 

Even the Jedi pratice a form of Social Darwinism. Seeing themselves as much more superior than the non-Force Users, they go and see the right to intervene in their affairs to make them "civilized".