JediMaster12 Posted February 1, 2006 Author Share Posted February 1, 2006 So you believe in certain inalienable rights and the whole concept of divine right is nonsense. To that I agree. I believe the Jedi were blinded by their role in the Republic but also by their arrogance which allowed the Sith to take over and create the Empire. We all have our feelings of patriotism and standing for what we think is right and the Jedi had their good intentions but at times they were completely wrong in spite of it. I will go far to say that at times it's the Grey Jedi that seem to get the picture, the whole picture, better than the Jedi Council. Maybe it's just because I can follow through with Jolee Bindo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotélēsticus Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 I think that this is our believe Potentium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMaster12 Posted February 2, 2006 Author Share Posted February 2, 2006 So Potentium is like being a Grey Jedi? That was my understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotélēsticus Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 yes it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arvik Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Just like Anakin said it, in my point of view the jedi are evil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Kavar Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Just like Anakin said it, in my point of view the jedi are evil Then you are truly lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMaster12 Posted February 4, 2006 Author Share Posted February 4, 2006 Yes, but then what is truth, nothing more than a point of view. Truth is an illusion to create stability and security. Truth is a lie. Is he truly lost? To be lost only means that something is to be found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firehead2591 Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 the jedi code is the biggest peice of crap i've ever heard. no showing emotions, because showing emotions is a weakness and trying to gaurd against you hearst desire such as romantic love. They are like robots with lightsabers....not very happy people i'm guessing....being taken away from their families and discouraged to see them ever again. I would hate to be a jedi. on the other hand i would like to weild the force though. if i were in the fantasy universe of star wars i would beleive in pontenium or whatever he said being neutral is a good thing in my POV because judging a situation is much easier from a neutral stand point, easier to choose what is more productive better for the long run.... i would rather help a hobo get a job then giving him some money. and sometimes doing the politically "wrong" thing actually helps you more than the politically "right" way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firehead2591 Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 the jedi code is the biggest peice of crap i've ever heard. no showing emotions, because showing emotions is a weakness and trying to gaurd against you hearst desire such as romantic love. They are like robots with lightsabers....not very happy people i'm guessing....being taken away from their families and discouraged to see them ever again. I would hate to be a jedi. on the other hand i would like to weild the force though. if i were in the fantasy universe of star wars i would beleive in pontenium or whatever he said being neutral is a good thing in my POV because judging a situation is much easier from a neutral stand point, easier to choose what is more productive better for the long run.... i would rather help a hobo get a job then giving him some money. and sometimes doing the politically "wrong" thing actually helps you more than the politically "right" way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Manus Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 To me, the Jedi are mostly people who try to handle their power in a responsible way while seeking to help those around them. However, I feel that the version of their Code seen in the KOTOR games is unhealthy, and could probably cause mental instability. In Revan's time, they seem to be a rather secluded organization, shutting themselves away from the rest of the galaxy. They seem to be getting more self-centered and excessively cautious, perhaps because they fear change. Also, their Code promotes the complete suppression of emotions, the avoidance of attachments and an alienation from one's family. It is my opinion that they fear emotions, and perhaps they have difficulty dealing with them. Another, more sinister theory could be that they have established all these rules in order to keep their apprentices under their complete control, isolated from any outside influences. Also, and despite their Code, some Jedi become arrogant, self-righteous and indifferent to other people's problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revan Skywalker Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 I have discovered the full truth. This truth: the Jedi and Sith are not really Jedi or Sith at heart. It is their ideals, people. The Force does not take sides with one or the other, it simply exists. Every Jedi, including the great Bindo and Jacen, the two most grey Jedi the galaxy have ever known... has never known the truth. They are stuck to their ideals, and grey Jedi are no different. The seek a balance between the too empty Jedi and the too emotional Sith. Both have disadvantages. The Jedi are supposed to ahve no emotion, and this makes the Jedi look evil, for sitting on their butts all day and mediatating. The Sith like emotions, and they allow them too much, so they throw fits easily and people get hurt. This makes the Sith look evil. In the end, both are truly evil because they cannot grasp the fact that they should not interfear with the Force's plans. If a war starts, it's the Force's will. If the galaxy gets destroyed, it's the Force's will. They have every right to defend themselves, but no right to interfear with the highest force in the universe. It is for this reason that they continue to fight each other. They can't grasp the truth. Only a Jedi Master named Qui-Gon Jinn did. He knew to let the Force take him where it would, and he let happen what would happen. He was not always this way, but I assure you, he finally got it, as have I. Whether you will is up to you. Most will continue to argue about the funadmental conflict of the universe. Light against Dark. Good against Evil. But doing this at all is evil, becuase you are innterupting the flow of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth InSidious Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 Yes, but then what is truth, nothing more than a point of view. Truth is an illusion to create stability and security. Truth is a lie. Is he truly lost? To be lost only means that something is to be found. Tell me: If I steal your car, and tell you I didn't, am I telling the truth? After all, truth is an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch0g0nda Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 The perfect Jedi is one who acknowledges the darkness as a part of the balance that they try so hard to preserve. The perfect Jedi is one who wouldn't have treated Anakin's dark outbursts like they would simple growing pains. The perfect Jedi, however, doesn't really exist. Grey Jedi are the closest to 'perfection.' They're not dogmatic pacifists or psychopaths. Uthar Wynn, always struck me as the grey Jedi type - despite the Sith teachings. He was always aware of the risks someone in his position was exposed to. Despite this, he was still a teacher. If not for what would have had to been considerable darkness in his soul (for he was the leader of the Sith academy) I think he would have made one hell of a powerful grey Jedi. Luke Skywalker's, adventures after the Battle of Yavin elevate him to the kind of persona that would fit my definition of 'perfect Jedi.' At one point he even gave into the Emperor and served the dark side. Very close to 'perfect.' He had the same kind of attitude Jolee, had, but was considerably more powerful; excellent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Manus Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 One thing is following the will of the Force, another is being completely controlled by it. Kreia hated the Force because of the way it would manipulate all being and "let millions die just to achieve some measure of balance". If the Force is in all living things, as some Masters have stated, then the logical thing for a Jedi to do would be promoting life, nurturing it, protecting it.The problem with the Sith is that they subvert the Force, using its power for their own petty ambitions. They don't care how much destruction they cause. I don't know if there's such thing as a perfect Jedi. Some people would probably try to achieve the best possible result by any means necessary, but would that be the right thing? I'll use one of my experimental TSL characters as an example: he brought about the best possible outcome for each of the planets, but still wiped out the Masters, and he could be violent and darksided. He wiped out the scavengers in the ruins of the Enclave when they disrespected them, and offed a certain thief during the moisture vaporators incident. He also did some tampering with a certain will, to keep an unworthy, greedy scavenger from getting her hands on Jedi artifacts. In Nar Shadaa, he wiped the floor with all the thugs who defied him, and in that part where you run into a bunch of them threatening a man, he forced them to jump off the platform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch0g0nda Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 ^Your point is so unfathomable. What are you trying to get across? (Same question to you, Revan Skywalker). William Petersen says: Pick one point, then try to make it. And for the love of god use paragraphs. Anyway, this thread is really starting to lose it's focus. We're supposed to be discussing each other's views on what would constitute a 'perfect Jedi;' not pick out the ever obvious flaws attached to following any creed. Of course the self destructive path of the Sith is greatly flawed - we know already, the chaos resulting in the 'one master, one apprentice' system outlines that beautifully. And as HK has pointed out every time I've played through TSL: The Jedi leave themselfs far too vulnerable by putting the problems of the entire galaxy before their's. Yes the Clone Wars were important and their role was vital, but; Count Dooku, told Obi-Wan, that the Republic was already under the control of the Sith Lord while on Geonosis. The ignorance of the council up untill just before the Battle of Coruscant was what ultimately sealed the Order's fate. But none of this is the point. We're here to rattle on about what would make a Jedi 'perfect.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Manus Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 Mental stability is one thing. You get Jedi going psycho left and right, and the Sith are crazy and proud of it. You also need someone who isn't an extremist. Take a look at Jolee. Instead of leading a sheltered life, like those of the Order, he experienced things for himself and drew his own conclusions. He doesn't go around lecturing people on what he thinks they should do. So the perfect Jedi is someone experienced, flexible, mentally stable and true to principles he can live with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMaster12 Posted May 4, 2006 Author Share Posted May 4, 2006 After all, truth is an opinion. Exactly. @Revan Skywalker: what is evil then. Nothing more than a point of view. What separates the Jedi and the Sith is CHOICE. The ability to make a concious decision separates those who gain power for themselves and those who gain power for the use of everyone. Yes power does corrupt; we've seen it. By the way, I am surprised that this thread was revived. I had forgetten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revan Skywalker Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 Nope. Evil is doing bad things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMaster12 Posted May 5, 2006 Author Share Posted May 5, 2006 Then what do you call the Jedi killing? They say it is for the greater good yet it is a bad thing. So in a way, the Jedi are evil because their actions are bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-false Jedi Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 They are Guardians of Peace and Justice. Although they have an irritating tendancy to be arrogent. And then there is the issue of power corrupts, which seems to have claimed many a Jedi. Their aim to be calm level headed and Serene is noble and smart, but sometimes i think they handle the dogma is a little too authoritarian which might cause problems with the knights. But i think some of the wiser ones are the true uncorrupted champions...we don't seem to see a lot of them though...i guess its more exciting to have War in the galaxy...i suppose its hard to be peaceful and succesful in a franchise called Star WARS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMaster12 Posted May 6, 2006 Author Share Posted May 6, 2006 The Jedi are fools and arrogant to boot. They may be the guardians of peace and justice but who are they to determine what is the greater good? The Sith on the other hand care nothing for others and are obsessed only with gaining power. Both are evil influences. The lesser of the two seems to be the Jedi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-false Jedi Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 Who is anyone to determine the greater good? Sombody must make decisions. They are supposed to work with the Republic anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleOfHarpenden Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 the jedi are evil and good its a point of view like in ROTS 'from my point of view the jedi are evil' that shows that its all down to choice the sith may want greater good but in a different way they think there going to do the greater good its very confusing. Take like Hitler for example i dont think he though he was doing bad things but everyone else did in a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch0g0nda Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 I'm thinking the way the entire galaxy celebrated the death of the emperor at the end of ep.VI shows that the Sith's view of what's 'good,' doesn't mesh with just about everyone else's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMaster12 Posted May 7, 2006 Author Share Posted May 7, 2006 Duh because it is all based on opinion!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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