Bad government!

[Guest Zoom Rabbit]

Hello. I am a tax-paying American veteran, and this is my qualified opinion: US = f**ked.

 

 

We're idiots when it comes to our foreign policy in the Pacific Rim. First, there's China. During the Kosovo fighting, we bombed the Chinese embassy in Belgrade...and pardon me for saying so, but we weren't as apologetic about the incident as we would have expected if the Chinese had bombed one of our emassies on accident! Now, there's this fiasco over mid-air collisions in the South China sea and the Chinese having possession of an American spy plane. I say: good for them! They should go over every square millimeter of that plane for all the precious intelligence it will reveal...just like we would.

 

And then, there's Japan. The recent tragedy of our submarine surfacing right under a boatload of Japanese students has left the people of Japan a little sore with us. Nine of their children died because of our navy's idiocy...and now, the navy has done the unthinkable by insulting that whole nation.

 

American nuclear submarines (with warheads) are required to give a twenty-four hour notice before entering a Japanese port--quite reasonable, considering the history of American nuclear weapons deployment in Japan. Well, despite this, one of our subs has just gone and surfaced in their waters without so much of a 'howdy!'

 

 

You know what? My sword and I are on our way to Washington to implement an acute change of national policy!

 

(FBI: that was a joke!)

 

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'What's up is clearly defined as the opposite of what is down, in this case being the strongest source of local gravity...failing that, in space, what's up is opposite the direction of accelerative G-force--or what I'm targeting with these laser cannon. Die, b*tch!'

 

--Official forum space terrorist

[K_Kinnison]

There allways seems to be a crises happening in the first year of a newly elected president.

 

Maybe Dubbayah, should go over and throw up during dinner to make them feel better.

 

From a purely curiosity point of view, int would be interesting to see China and the US go to war.

[Guest Rogue 9]

we would crush them like pitiful insects, they couldn't even deploy their military and with ten ICBM's (reference Nute ) they can't threaten us because we could knock their country back to the stone age and I think we would

[Nute Gunray]

First off, the reason we thought that the Chinese embassy was a weapons depot was because it was. The Chinese were selling weapons out of the place. It had stopped being an embassy years ago.

As for the plane thing, that's a matter of East versus West. The West is allowed to do whatever we want, but the East isn't. Example: We base nuclear weapons in Turkey. Russia complains. We do nothing and the weapons stay. Russians base nuclear weapons in Cuba, we threaten destroy everyone and their dog and the weapons are removed. Anyhow: they're the bad guy. They're supposed to be on the losing side of things being "not fair," meaning they don't TOUCH our plane. EVER.

The Japanese were, like, what 9 miles off the Hawaiian islands? That's inside US territorial waters (we claim to 12). What the hell were they doing fishing in our waters?

 

I'm more concerned about the guys that thought it would be a wonderful idea to park their plane loaded with encryption gear in China. I would have ditched. Oh yeah, is Macau or whatever that Portuguese controlled island near Hong Kong still under Portuguese control? If it WAS, it was close enough to where they put down...portugal would have been much nicer about this..."hey portugal, give us the plane and say way!" "ok NATO ally!" see?

now that i've been thinking about it, i wonder if an EP-3 has encryption gear on board...i'll have to look into it. If it doesn't, I'll stop caring and just be upset for the principle of the thing.

 

As always, my opinion on Beijing and the rest of the PRC :

WEEEEEE!!!

 

PS: China has 12 ICBMs, but we only have to worry about 8 of them

 

[This message has been edited by Nute Gunray (edited April 03, 2001).]

[Guest Jabba The Hunt]

all of the american governments have double standards they could reckoned they could have missiles on the edge of Russia but the russians could not have missiles in cuba.

 

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iM. diSleXIc. sO. pLeaSE. tRanSlaTe. AnY oF tHe mmistypes/SpElLinGs

jabbathehunt@hotmail.com

[Nute Gunray]

So what if the West had a double standard in the Cold War? Would you have preferred the Russians won?

[Guest Rogue 9]

the E-3 would have had encryption gear aboard, t would also have decrypt gear and most of our eletronic warefare stuff, fortunatley I think the crew is supposed to wipe out the computer systems and I'm sure that the hard coded info is destroyed in the event that the plane has to come down in a hostile LZ , and we all know that the chinese bbrought the plane down on purpose the fighter that hit it was vectored to the aircraft and was trying to "accidently" catch the E-3 in its Jetwash.

[Guest Rogue 9]

Here's the mos recent news on the E-3...

 

The NandoTimes - April 03, 2001 11:20

 

By MARTIN FACKLER, Associated Press

SANYA, China (April 3, 2001 11:20 a.m. EDT http://www.nandotimes.com) - China's president on Tuesday demanded the United States stop surveillance flights after a collision between a U.S. spy plane and a Chinese fighter jet, an accident he blamed on the U.S. Meanwhile, American diplomats waited to see the plane's 24-member crew.

 

China's Foreign Ministry called for an apology for the collision Sunday over the South China Sea, which Beijing blames on the United States. A ministry spokesman also dismissed U.S. claims that Chinese officials have no right to board the Navy EP-3, though he refused to say whether they had done so already.

 

With U.S. diplomats waiting on Hainan - the southern island where the EP-3 made an emergency landing - Ambassador Joseph Prueher said the Chinese Foreign Ministry had given diplomats "the expectation" they would meet the crew Tuesday evening. But he didn't say Beijing had formally committed to the meeting.

 

President Bush has complained about the delay in allowing diplomats to see the crew, with whom there has been no contact since just after their landing. "We're not so pleased that it's taken 60 hours in order to bring this about. That's too long a time," Prueher told journalists in Beijing.

 

Waiting for official word from China about a meeting, two U.S. diplomats went to Hainan's capital, Haikou. A third was in Sanya, a resort city on the island's southern end near the air base in the town of Lingshui where the EP-3 landed.

 

Chinese leaders, meanwhile, were insisting the United States was to blame for the collision, which left the Chinese pilot missing. China says the pilot parachuted out and a massive search by planes and ships has turned up no sign of him.

 

President Jiang Zemin, who expressed "great concern" for the pilot, said the unarmed EP-3 violated international law and intruded into Chinese airspace by making an emergency landing without permission on Hainan island in southern China.

 

"The responsibility fully lies with the American side. We have full evidence for that," Jiang said, according to Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhu Bangzao. "China is the victim," Zhu added.

 

Jiang called for an end to U.S. surveillance flights off China's coast "so as to prevent similar accidents from happening again," Zhu said.

 

Zhu said Washington should "admit its mistakes" and "make an explanation to the Chinese government and people on this incident instead of raising this or that demand or try to shirk its responsibilities."

 

Asked at a Beijing news conference if Chinese authorities had boarded the plane, Zhu did not respond directly, saying China has a right to conduct "an investigation" into the collision. He dismissed U.S. claims that the plane is sovereign American territory and cannot be entered.

 

"If this plane is sovereign American territory, how did it land in China?" Zhu said. "There's no question of immunity at all. Therefore China has all rights to handle this case."

 

The collision occurred about 60 miles southeast of Hainan, a popular tourist destination 400 miles west of Hong Kong. The U.S. military says the EP-3 was on a routine surveillance mission in international air space. After its left wing and left-most of its four engines were damaged, the pilot put out a distress call and landed at the nearest air field on Hainan.

 

U.S. officials have complained that China is slow in responding to diplomatic contacts. It's not unusual for China's secretive bureaucratic system to take a long time to make decisions, especially where the military or national security concerns are involved.

 

U.S. officials say China did not respond to an offer to help search for its missing pilot.

 

A sailor at a facility adjacent to the Lingshui base said Monday the plane was standing empty on the runway and the crew had been taken to a military guesthouse.

 

China says the American pilot caused the crash by suddenly veering into the Chinese jet, one of two sent up to follow the plane into Chinese airspace. U.S. military authorities say it was more likely that the faster, lighter Chinese plane brushed against the lumbering propeller-driven EP-3, which is about the size of a 150-seater commercial jetliner.

 

Reporters who tried to visit the air base on Monday were detained by armed guards. On Tuesday, the road to the base was closed.

 

In a second day of protests in Hong Kong, about 20 people marched on the U.S. consulate, chanting for the United States to "stop spying in China." About 100 people demonstrated there on Monday.

 

[Nute Gunray]

I'll going to check on the EP-3's gear. I'm not very sure about them.

 

We'll stop spying on China when they stop spying on us A friend of mine and a German guy that lives near me undercovered a Chinese spy at the place they work (they grow crystals and fashion them into lens for "defense applications")

[edlib]

Hmmmm... Governmental posturing. This whole thing is so ridiculous. We have spy planes, they know we have spy planes, they know we know that they know, and they know we know it! The whole thing should just blow over with them saying "Gotcha!", and us saying "Yeah, I guess you did...", but I guess it doesn't work that way. We each have to huff and strut and mark off our territory like a couple of blubbery sea-lions fighting over the same tiny patch of beach. Wouldn't it be great if both sides came out and said "We were wrong!"

 

It's never gonna happen though.

 

*Sigh*

[Nute Gunray]

Same thing happened with the USS Pueblo in Korea. We went to war not that long after that happened.

I've been screaming since 98 that we'd be going to war with China in 5-10 years. Damnit I hate being right all the time.

[Nute Gunray]

Upon reviewing stuff about the EP-3 Aries II and the incident itself, I have reached the following conclusions:

1) the plane is a SIGINT (signals intelligence) aicraft, which carries less sensitive equipment than an ELINT (electronic intelligence aircraft). Basically what the plane was doing was listening to chinese radio stations. No major technology lose there. The Chinese probably would be able to duplicate the technology, but only if they get to keep the plane, which they probably won't.

2) The Chinese are acting like pricks. They: a) did not have a crash team waiting on the ground, in case the aircraft could not land properly and b) boarded the plane without permission which is a huge political no-no.

[Admiral Odin]

I strongly disagree with you there Zoom, if the so much as touch that plane I think we should declare war and kill them. As for the sub I believe that was in Hawaii not along their cost and in international waters.

 

I can get into a huge debate over this. My view is that the US is the best and no country should mess with us.

 

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"Dulce bellum inexpertis."

(Sweet is war to those who have never experinced it.) Roman Proverb

[Admiral Odin]

I have to agree with Nute. Sorry I couldn't read the other post until now and I don't feel like editing my previous one.

 

I say we should set a deadline and if China doesn't comply we should declare war and kill them.

 

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"Dulce bellum inexpertis."

(Sweet is war to those who have never experinced it.) Roman Proverb

[Zargon]

OK, the Chinese are soo full of bull**** here. The EP-3(or whatever its called) can't do ANYTHING quickly, its a fricking airpig, big and slow. Also, what the hell are they flying such a close escort on OUR plane in INTERnATIONAL AIRSPACE?

 

If you are gunna complain about us being mean they are compalining cause the plane made an emergencey landing without permission! Like they could go anywhere else!

 

my vote for action invovles china becoming a nitelite for teh internation spacestation

[Zargon]

Actually, I have a better idea. A full blockade of China. Park the entire Pacific Fleet off the coast, and use the F-18's as air patrol and other various forces we still have on Japan(who cant complain about the sub cause they get protection by the worlds greatest military and if it werent for us they'd be a chinese protectorate by now). This would obviously be just he beginning as most of our mideast stationed hardware could move in also. We just notify them that they obviously can't really trade ANYTHING anymore untill they give us our boys back. We would need to bring in lots of USAF planes tho cause they have a hellova AF, but no match for our F-22's, F-16s, and F-15 E Strike Eagles. Nor the navys Super Hornets.......

[Zargon]

Originally posted by Zoom Rabbit:

They should go over every square millimeter of that plane for all the precious intelligence it will reveal...just like we would.

 

Ok, one problem, they have nothing we would want....it be outdated comapred to ours, maybe the decryption software....but I'd guess we already have....

[Nute Gunray]

Think about this:

Back during the Cold War, nearly every day at least one Soviet bomber would approach Alaska. We'd send a pair of fighters up to "escort" it away. That went on for about 40 years. Did one of our fighters ever crash into a bomber? (evidence, like i needed it though, that china really sucks)

What about all the times a Russian and US sub would collide during our little games of tag?

Russia (who had a reason and the means to be pissed off at the US) played the game much better than China is, with much more leverage on their side.

[Guest Zoom Rabbit]

*(Declaring the forum a hotbed of piggie little ultrafundamentalist cardboard cut-out Bush Junior wannabes, Zoom tosses a bundle of dynamite into the furnace a second before beaming out--FOR GREAT JUSTICE!!!)*

 

Hee-hee-hee...

 

[Taarkin]

Any country with the word "People's" and/or "Republic" in is sucks.

 

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Was I supposed to eat the heads too? 'Cause I took nooo prisioners!

 

Once again, evil is defeated through the use of decorative agricultural technology!

 

Official forum Psychic

[Guest Rogue 9]

and we let the Soviets take there Mig-25 back so its not like we're being unrealistic, of course we did send it back crated by part

[Nute Gunray]

But we kept the pilot

[Guest Rogue 9]

We didn't really keep him he wanted to stay, probably made a fortune of his book or maybe not but I'll take america over russia anyday

[Guest Fondas]

 

Referring to everyone, except Zoom :

 

I just hope that you are joking.

 

 

Everybody knows that you are the only superpower left after the cold war had ended. We also are quite aware that you keep sticking your (big) noses where nobody asks you to !

 

 

but this thing with China is becoming too f***ing annoying !

 

What's the problem with you ??? USSR has fell under the economical pressure of the arms race, you were left with no opponent and now you're looking for another ??? Are you deranged ?

 

 

It's really dissapointing to realize that the youth of the US is arrogant and ignorant as your posts suggest. Have you ever been to war or at least involved in a near-war crisis. I MEAN IN , NOT WATCHING IT FROM CNN WHILE COSY IN YOUR SOFA !

 

I can understand the dogma "better dead than read" coming out of older people who had been brainwashed and never really new ANYTHING about the political system called "Communism"

but ignorance and even worse, smattering is inadmissable in the year 2001 !

 

I hate communism myself, but I don't keep looking for ghost enemies where they do not exist. I have political established reasons that can back up my dislike.

 

40 years living under the fear of nuclear wipeout were more than enough ! All that so a bunch of power hungry fools from each side, could satisfy their oversized egos .

 

PEOPLE, OPEN YOUR MINDS !

 

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"No matter how pretty the bait,

a hook is still a hook !"

TZG+7

 

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[This message has been edited by Fondas (edited April 04, 2001).]

[Nute Gunray]

China is our enemy. They are a moral enemy. Everything they stand for goes directly against everything we stand for.

 

I would nuke them, yes I would actually want to see their nation destroyed by nuclear weapons, because of their human rights policies alone.

 

My father, who thought he was going to war at least twice (once in Cuba and once in Turkey (never really explained the Turkish one)) and participated in at least two intelligence gathering missions against the Soviet navy during his time in the USN, is sounding very similar to all the jingoistic stuff that's being spouted off here.

 

oh yeah, i had a copy of that MiG pilot's book around here somewhere but i never read it...defecting to Japan. Amazing.