[SPOILERS] Would you have been satisfied with the cut ending?

[TheGreenGoblin]

^^

 

Good point, I hadn't taken Bastila's role in the battle into account.

 

 

Hypothetically, even if Malak had still escaped, with the Star Forge gone, the Sith would now have been on the losing end of the war, undoubtedly.

 

Not necessarily. Even with the Forge's destruction the Sith still had a large and formidable military force behind them. TSL I believe points out the reason for the decline of the Sith was due to the lack of a strong leader.

[Reclaimer]

I think these endings would be alot better then the current ending. Hell, anything is better!

[The Distorted]

^^

 

Good point, I hadn't taken Bastila's role in the battle into account.

 

 

 

 

Not necessarily. Even with the Forge's destruction the Sith still had a large and formidable military force behind them. TSL I believe points out the reason for the decline of the Sith was due to the lack of a strong leader.

 

Yes - who has the ability to utilise and control the Star Forge. That's why they started to fail, because consequently the Star Forge was no longer in use.

 

Okay, it's not certain, I admit, but if the Republiuc force could destroy the Star Forge, then surely that at least proves that they - even on the losing end of the war - had a formidable front-line military (the one Admiral Dodonna commands). Now take that front-line military (that still remains after the Star Forge's destruction) and put that against the Sith who no longer have infinite resources, and I believe (unless the Sith have a mastermind back-up plan) they could defeat any front-line or defense party the Sith throw at them.

[Non-false Jedi]

where the parts where the party tried to stop Kreia supposed to end in all their deaths, or just them being...neutralized? I would have been immensly dissatisfied if they all just dropped dead beyond the control of the player at the end of the game. It would have made the entire game pointless. imo

[The Distorted]

where the parts where the party tried to stop Kreia supposed to end in all their deaths, or just them being...neutralized? I would have been immensly dissatisfied if they all just dropped dead beyond the control of the player at the end of the game. It would have made the entire game pointless. imo

 

I'm pretty sure they are just 'neutralized', as you say. I mean, Atton can come with your female Exile at the end for example, and in some circumstances either Visas, Brianna or Mical are left by the Exile to train more jedi or sith for the oncoming assault from the real sith.

[Non-false Jedi]

some of the cut endings are mutually exclusive and almost looks like they really couldn't decide what to end with.

 

and the other thing is, that list of cut endings doesn't seem complete?

 

When you have more influence with Vistas, then Handmaiden attacks her..but what if you have more influence with Handmaiden?

 

I don't Get the GOTO thing though...i don't even get his logic in the ending we have.

[Vibro]

Wow, I knew they had cut a lot of content, but that is incredible.

[Emperor Devon]

How would she know what the Exile and Visas spoke of, or even Visas disposition change, immediately after the conversation is over? Unlike Kreia, there are no hints that the Handmaiden is omniscient as to what goes on on the Ebon Hawk.

 

Video games are not entirely realistic; things like that often happen in them. Creating a cutscene where someone tells the Handmaiden about the Exile speaking to Visas would be fairly easy to do, but in order to maintain consistency the developers would have to make similar cutscenes for all of the party members for topics other than speaking to Visas as well. The work would add up, and it has no real impact on the game.

 

Also, her reaction feels way off even in the situation you described. So, Visas is a Sith, the Handmaiden despises the Sith, and she perceives the Exile talks to rather than interrogate her. (Which may or may not be the case, as the Exile could be extracting information from Visas by talking to her.) Wouldn't it make more sense if the Handmaiden would talk to the Exile about her feelings on the matter, rather than just forget the very reason she's there to begin with and dart off to Malachor to take matters into her own, jealousy-powered hands?

 

Even if that cut content was still in the game, it's quite likely that the Handmaiden would still launch her tirade about Visas not being trustworthy. And no matter what the player says, she'll get upset about the matter and turn to Kreia, who manipulates her.

 

Why is there no doubt that Revan needed help? I'd say what's said in the game point to quite the contrary, since she went to great lengths to ensure that no one knew where she was going, and that no one would follow.

 

Well, he's one Sith Lord going up against the most powerful faction that currently exists in the galaxy. It took him a great deal of effort to take over the Sith, but this time he has to destroy an empire that's much stronger, and he knew no one strong enought to help him. Surely he could use some backup? As for why he concealed where he was going, there was no one he could currently turn to for any useful help. Who would he bring with him? His party members were not strong enough, the Exile was currently in a weakened state, Sion and Nihilus hadn't reached the height of their power, and who knows where Kreia was.

 

All your force-trained party members (except Visas who is more of a dark counterpart to the Exile, and Kreia who dies) are neophytes, very new to the force. Most of their force training thus far has, by necessity, been combat oriented. The Handmaiden and Disciple may know a fair bit of Jedi philosophy and lore, but none of them are even padawan-level in their training and knowledge.

 

I'd have to agree with you about the Disciple, but not the Handmaiden. She was able to stand up and temporarily defeat a fallen member of the Council. Surely that proves she's far more powerful than any Padawan?

 

Leaving the rebuilding of the Jedi Order in the hands of neophytes who's only been force trained for a few months at most and never (Disciple excluded) been part of the Order, or in the hands of a fallen Sith who may be strong and knowledgeable in the force but know little of the Jedi, would seem like a rather odd thing to do.

 

It is an odd thing to do, but there are no alternative candidates.

 

The Exile is a trained Jedi Knight, who has experience teaching others in the past. She's seen, and experienced firsthand, the less savory aspects of the Jedi. She has experience of both sides of the Force, and experience of being cut off from it entirely. She has seen the direct consequence of the complacence and arrogance that had grown within the Order. -- What person would be best suited to re-form the Jedi Order in a less flawed shape, someone with all that experience, or a bunch of Neophyte force sensitives that at most know how to swing a lightsaber?

 

Obviously the former, but I never said anything against that.

 

From the player perspective, it's also a more satisfying ending to envision the Exile as the progenitor of the new Jedi Order that would live on another 4000 years, rather than just some random mook who left for uncharted space never to be heard from again.

 

Well, who says the Exile is never coming back? KotOR III hasn't come out, so we have no way of knowing if the Exile will die.

[Non-false Jedi]

it seems to me it makes no sense for them to stay and the exile to leave.

 

Also Handmaiden didn't defeat Atris, she lost. All she might have been able to do was phase her a tad, plus she has echani training to help her. It doesn't matter if you win or lose against Atris in the in game fighting, the result is the same.

[stoffe]

Even if that cut content was still in the game, it's quite likely that the Handmaiden would still launch her tirade about Visas not being trustworthy. And no matter what the player says, she'll get upset about the matter and turn to Kreia, who manipulates her.

 

Which makes no sense. The Exile is the one who's supposed to be a natural leader, inspiring confidence and loyalty in others. Why would she not listen to the Exile who may give a very plausible explanation, but listen to Kreia who she's already suspicious of?

 

Well, he's one Sith Lord going up against the most powerful faction that currently exists in the galaxy. It took him a great deal of effort to take over the Sith, but this time he has to destroy an empire that's much stronger, and he knew no one strong enought to help him. Surely he could use some backup?

 

Not necessarily. When you face an organization which is far stronger and more powerful than you, head-on conflict may not be the best option. That was the option Revan tried first, and which apparently failed. More subtle options not relying on initial strength of numbers may be preferable. Palpatine was able to take over the entire galaxy-spanning Republic starting out just with himself and no one else.

 

 

I'd have to agree with you about the Disciple, but not the Handmaiden. She was able to stand up and temporarily defeat a fallen member of the Council. Surely that proves she's far more powerful than any Padawan?

 

Combat prowess is only part of the equation. Knowledge, wisdom, devotion to a philosophy and ability to manipulate the force in other ways are other key factors. They may be good at fighting, but merely being able to swing a lightsaber skillfully does not make someone a Jedi Knight.

 

As for the Handmaiden, I seem to recall her ending up in a smoking, electrocuted heap on the floor, not standing victorious over Atris broken body. Sure, she beat Atris in a lightsaber duel, which is hardly surprising considering that the Handmaiden has been a warrior practicing melee combat pretty much from birth, while Atris has been a librarian and hardly strikes you as ever having been the warrior/guardian type. But Atris command of the Force was obviously stronger, allowing her to call upon the mighty Force Plot-Lightning. "There are techniques in the Force against which there is no defense..." indeed.

 

 

It is an odd thing to do, but there are no alternative candidates.

 

I say there is: The Exile. Stay behind, rebuild the Jedi Order into a better organization and help stabilize the Republic, so you may operate from a position of strength with that power base behind you, rather than rush away all alone into the unknown.

 

 

Well, who says the Exile is never coming back? KotOR III hasn't come out, so we have no way of knowing if the Exile will die.

 

Of course anything but speculation is impossible at this stage. Though if Obsidian continues to develop the next game and continues on the track to make the series a bit more PS:Torment-esque the whole thing would probably end with the death of the protagonist(s) in some remote location that no one would know of.

[Emperor Devon]

Which makes no sense. The Exile is the one who's supposed to be a natural leader, inspiring confidence and loyalty in others. Why would she not listen to the Exile who may give a very plausible explanation, but listen to Kreia who she's already suspicious of?

 

 

She was furious at the Exile. That made it harder for the Exile to speak to her, and Kreia was able to manipulate her into serving her own purposes. The Handmaiden's anger clouded her judgement.

 

Not necessarily. When you face an organization which is far stronger and more powerful than you, head-on conflict may not be the best option. That was the option Revan tried first, and which apparently failed. More subtle options not relying on initial strength of numbers may be preferable. Palpatine was able to take over the entire galaxy-spanning Republic starting out just with himself and no one else.

 

That is true, but Palpatine was at the advantage. The Republic had believed the Sith to be long dead, and by the time they realized the Sith were still alive, he had a great amount of power. Palpatine was also facing a much weaker enemy than Revan, and he had decades with which to fight it. Revan, however, is facing an enemy far stronger than the Republic, and he does not have decades to work with. In addition, the fact the he's a human will make him stound out. Revan probably will try to be as stealthy as possible, but given his situation, combat is inevitable.

 

Combat prowess is only part of the equation. Knowledge, wisdom, devotion to a philosophy and ability to manipulate the force in other ways are other key factors. They may be good at fighting, but merely being able to swing a lightsaber skillfully does not make someone a Jedi Knight.

 

You said yourself that the Handmaiden and Disciple know a fair bit of Jedi lore and philosophy. In addition, they are both aligned to the Light Side, and the Handmaiden is a skilled fighter.

 

I say there is: The Exile. Stay behind, rebuild the Jedi Order into a better organization and help stabilize the Republic, so you may operate from a position of strength with that power base behind you, rather than rush away all alone into the unknown.

 

That would no doubt take years, time in which Revan could not survive.