If Darth Maul lived...

[Darth_Terros]

Either way Darth Maul was doomed to die from the very moment Palpatine chose him as his apprentice.

 

There was probably a great deal palpatine didnt tell maul to keep him from getting too powerful and as soon as he of no use palpatine would've stricken him down and taken a new apprentice.

 

In a way Mauls loyalty would've been his end, he served palpatine completly he knew nothing else but what palpatine told him he was essentially palpatines pet and would never have gone agaisnt him.

[Darth Macca]

You have just proved my point!

 

'There was probably a great deal palpatine didnt tell maul to keep him from getting too powerful'

 

That's what I'm trying to get across. If he killed Obi-Wan and learned more about the force he would become very powerful within the Dark Side. I really do think he would rival Palpatine if he chose to be dishonest to his master. We'll be debating about this forever because we are never going to agree on this.

[Darth_Terros]

he would've become just as powerful as anyone who studies the darkside but i dont think he would've ever truly gain the power to rival Sidious.

[arkodeon]

Maybe Maul underestimated Obi-Wan, I almost definatly think he did. As Obi-Wan was only a mere Padawan it would fool most. But yes you are right, a Dark Lord shouldn't advertise himself to be stuck down ... but at the end of the day he was a Sith still learning and craving the force. That's why I named the topic 'If Darth Maul lived...'. Say if Obi-Wan didn't get so lucky and he went spiriling down the black hole, would Maul have learned everything about the Jedi and every move they make and become a true Dark Lord? Palpatine was trained in the arts of the Jedi which he was passing onto Maul. A learning mentor can never be fully knowledgeable of the force which was proven in the final duel.

 

While I agree that Darth Maul was Super powerful, I really don't think Palpatine would have kept him around if he had survived. Why?

 

1) Would YOU believe that Darth Maul was the leader of the Separatists? Sorry, he doesn't seem like the whole "Take charge and lead" guy.

 

2) Maul could become so powerful he would kill Palpatine, as Palpatine killed his master.

 

One more note...Palpatine was never trained as a Jedi. He was trained in Sith forms of combat.

[Darth_Terros]

One more note...Palpatine was never trained as a Jedi. He was trained in Sith forms of combat.

 

I was gonna mention that but seeing as Sith teachings descend from the Jedi who left the order they do take some jedi teachings ie Lightsaber combat

[arkodeon]

And to answer your other question..."Would Anakin be allowed to be trained?"

 

I think the Jedi Council made their decision before the death of Qui-Gon, so when they find out when they're on Naboo that both Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan are killed, then the Jedi would take him in.

 

Plus, I don't think Palpatine would allow Anakin to slip through the cracks. He would most surely kill Darth Maul if he was still alive over Anakin. Anakin is the Chosen One, after all.

[arkodeon]

I was gonna mention that but seeing as Sith teachings descend from the Jedi who left the order they do take some jedi teachings ie Lightsaber combat

 

While the Sith teachings do originate from Jedi teachings, they are quite opposite.

 

The Sith harness their emotions, while the Jedi repress them.

 

Thus, they both have even different lightsaber combat forms. The Sith are more agressive, and their combat styles are not recognized as the main Forms of Lightsaber combat.

[Darth_Terros]

Oh yeah obviously the Sith and Jedi teachings are totally different

 

What i ment though is that it stems from Jedi teachings the Sith style of lightsaber combat are essentially very violent and modified forms of Jedi Styles

 

Anyway alot of the original Sith teachings are nothing to do with the jedi seeing as the original sith had never even seen a jedi till they showed up one day cast out of the Jedi order

 

Its mainly over time after the complete extinction *well this might not be true in light of things said in KOTOR2* when more Sith where just fallen Jedi did the more Jedi like styles seep into Sith teachings

[Darth Macca]

He would most surely kill Darth Maul if he was still alive

Would be an interesting duel if Darth Maul filled his potential and became very powerful within the dark side. I don't think it would be as easy, I think Palpatine would stumble upon Maul and effectively be killed.

[Darth_Terros]

Darth maul is nothing but a insect to the power Palpatine had even at his strongest Darth Maul would've had problems.

 

I mean did you see the speed he took down those Jedi masters?!?! and those guys are super tough!

 

i mean FFS even yoda could'nt beat palpatine christ im sure even Exar Kun would've had problems.

[Commander Obi-Wan]

Why do people think Darth Maul is a "better Sith Lord" than Count Dooku?

 

I never said Maul was better than Dooku. Plus it was what I though. Also, Palpatine grew more powerful from the time of Darth Maul to when he ressurricted (spelling?) to the Dark Side. You never know, Darth Maul could have become more powerful.

 

Also you can't exactly compare Tyrannus to Maul. Different time. Darth Maul could have become more powerful.

[Darth Macca]

Darth maul is nothing but a insect to the power Palpatine had even at his strongest Darth Maul would've had problems.

 

I mean did you see the speed he took down those Jedi masters?!?! and those guys are super tough!

 

i mean FFS even yoda could'nt beat palpatine christ im sure even Exar Kun would've had problems.

 

Don't get me wrong, everyone would have problems fighting Darth ****ing Sidious, but it doesn't mean he is undefeatable. Windu had him in his grasp until Anakin chopped off him arm. Sidious was running out of gas against Yoda - that's why he looked to the force to fend Yoda off. He has a lot of weaknesses that Maul could've exploited.

[Darth_Terros]

It just seems the basis of your arguement is if Darth maul was left to his own devices and knew everything about the darkside he would be the most powerful sithlord ever

 

When i could easily say well if Chief Chirpa *or anyone in the SW universe with force potential* was left to his own devices and knew everything about the darkside he would be the most powerful sithlord ever

 

Its excactly the same arguement and you really dont seem to be taking in the flaws of Darth maul at all.

 

like i said read Shadow Hunter it'll give you more insight into darth maul and why he is the way he is and why he wasnt that great a Sith lord.

 

He was simply a killer with very little knowledge of much else.

[Darth Macca]

I can't help thinking Darth_Terros that all your facts on Darth Maul have come from a wikipedia and not your own knowledge.

 

Just a theory.

[Darth_Terros]

Infact all my facts on Darth Maul have come from TPM movie,TPM novel,the Darth Maul novel shadow hunter,the Darth Maul comics and the random stories seen in the tales comics

[Darth Macca]

Infact all my facts on Darth Maul have come from TPM the Darth Maul novel shadow hunter the Darth Maul comics and the random stories seen in the tales comics

 

Fair enough.

[Kurgan]

He did but do you think Dooku was the only man with pull in the Galaxy? Besides, Dooku doesn't know about the rule of two....

 

No evidence that he doesn't know it. We never see the Sith discuss the rule of two, only Yoda and Mace Windu discuss it (though I suppose Palpatine was within earshot at the time, heh).

 

Don't get me wrong, Dooku is a decent swordsman - but I don't agree that he is a match for Yoda in force power. In Episode II, Yoda calmly stops every obstacle thrown at him by Dooku with great ease. Dooku struggles to keep up with Yoda with the lightsaber so he flees. Yoda makes Dooku look very ordinary. I think Darth Maul (had he gained more power) would have become a great Sith Lord - a possible threat to Palpatine and Yoda. If he was given more time and learned the ways of the force more, he would have dispatched Count Dooku rather easily.

 

Yoda countered everything he threw at him, but even his counter attack didn't stop Dooku. One could argue perhaps that Yoda could have overpowered Dooku and chose not to, but why? He was serious about stopping Dooku, supposedly, so why hold back? Dooku's threatening the prone bodies of Anakin & Obi-Wan may speak of desperation in the fight, and it's the classic villian "cheater" thing to do, but still. Padme and a squad of clone troops were on the way and Dooku just wanted to escape. The Jedi had appealed to his pride and sucked him into a bunch of saber duels. Perhaps he just realized he's going to eventually get tired and captured? Who knows, but anyway, I still think it's fair to say that Dooku is a match for Yoda, all things considered. What we see in the film supercedes early script treatments that have Yoda beating Dooku and then about to kill him. Saying somebody is a "match for" somebody else is different than saying "they would beat them easily." It means the match could go either way since they are pretty much on the same level.

 

Dooku is Yoda's old Padawan, so they would know a bit about each other's styles and tricks. Yoda seemed a bit surprised by Dooku's lightning (not as surprised as he was by Palpatine's however), but anyway, see above.

 

PS: If any DM info comes from Tales check the issue numbers because the first 20 issues are non-canon.

[rccar328]

I think it's kind of a tough question, beyond who could take whom in a fight. Palpatine could've used Maul & killed him, choosing Dooku as his apprentice, but as a force user & saberist, I think Dooku was superior to Maul. Maul was obviously skilled with his staff, but as was mentioned above, Dooku was trained by Yoda, the best saberist among the Jedi (according to conversations in the movies), and used force powers in his fights. Maul didn't really use force powers in his fights, so I think it's safe to say that Dooku was more powerful in the force.

 

Given that, Palpatine may have chosen to kill Dooku and keep Maul, knowing that he had less to fear from Maul, given the great Sith tradition of killing the master to userp power.

 

Either way, Palpatine was grooming Anakin to be his new apprentice, so it's pretty clear that Dooku and Maul would've been taken out to give Darth Vader his place at Sidious' side.

[Point Man]

I don't believe Maul would have been able to take on Sidious. Maul may have been a great fighter (the actor who played him is obviously the best trained of all the saber duelists in the movies), but Sidious had more power in the Force. I do wish Maul hadn't died at the end of TPM, though, because I thought his character was fascinating. I did not like Dooku that much. He was just kinda boring.

[snailboy]

If Christopher lee were here he'd backhand you. Then suck your blood. Then fix your teeth.

[Commander Obi-Wan]

I don't believe Maul would have been able to take on Sidious. Maul may have been a great fighter (the actor who played him is obviously the best trained of all the saber duelists in the movies), but Sidious had more power in the Force. I do wish Maul hadn't died at the end of TPM, though, because I thought his character was fascinating. I did not like Dooku that much. He was just kinda boring.

 

lol...but then again, Palpatine gained more power as the movie and storyline progressed. Ans so could have Maul. But, meh. It didn't.

 

I do sorta wish Maul didn't die either. He was one of my favourite characters and as most people agree to. But, the storyline did fine without him....I think.

[†Saint_Killa†]

If he was alive he would make the story even better. Though he was pretty quiet.

 

PS: He's the coolest zabrak ive seen.

[St. Jimmy]

(We need not assume that to live Maul had to kill both Qui Gon AND Obi-Wan, perhaps he was forced to flee or something in our alternative scenario, though his "mission" was undoubtably to kill the Jedi and then the Queen if she failed to sign the treaty which by this time had little chance of happening).

 

He would not have run from the Jedi he would have stayed and fought even if he knew he was going to die. He's way too loyal to run (plus he rocks all over the place)

[St. Jimmy]

(the actor who played him is obviously the best trained of all the saber duelists in the movies), but Sidious had more power in the Force. I do wish Maul hadn't died at the end of TPM, though, because I thought his character was fascinating. I did not like Dooku that much. He was just kinda boring.

 

I fully agree with you there man, they are my thoughts exactly

[St. Jimmy]

Sorry to tripple post but, Darth Maul is by far my fave Star Wars dude