The Expert Forum

[JediMaster12]

JM12--I wouldn't mind picking your brain on more Li'adin culture, even if some details aren't used in the story itself. I'd like to make it more 'real.'

What specifically are you looking for? What do you see them as? Are they more in tune with principles of nirvana or something?

I'd be glad to give a few pointers.

[Jae Onasi]

Building a culture--if this gets too involved, I'm more than happy to take it offlist if need be.

Here's what I have so far--

The planet Li'adin--rotates a little faster, maybe has a little more axial tilt, so the Coriolis forces are higher and their weather is a lot worse during parts of the year, and they can have massive but fast moving storms. Otherwise, it's temperate. They have a specific growing season that happens outside the stormy seasons. The weather strongly affects their architecture--they have to build structures to withstand the nasty weather. I may have to move them more below ground--don't know yet. The sun is bluer than average (just because I liked that idea, no other particular reason). The plant life is more blue-green than green (which I associated with the blue shift in the sun's visible light spectrum) and nearly black dirt, just because I didn't want to be creative with dirt color at the moment I was writing it.

The people--Li'adans. Humanoid race, yellowish skin (due to different wavelengths of sunlight there?), brown hair (maybe other colors too?, shorter and slightly more frail than 'normal' humans. They are exceptionally sensitive to changes in time. They don't like to leave their solar system (haven't decided why). They come in Singles, Duos, and Triads. They're born as singles. Haven't figured out how they reproduce because it wasn't salient for my story (and because I'm not a randy teenager thinking about that all the time ). They 'join' or become telepathically linked with another single at some point in life (I'm picturing young adult to adult) and become a Duo. Later in life, another single can be added to the mix to make a Triad, though that is not required. I suppose I could call it a Trio, but I liked how Triad sounded so I went with that. I thought that they might consider a Joining ceremony to be a big deal. Singles have names with a suffix 'a, Duos 'an, Triads 'ad. When they join, pieces of each of the individual's names are recombined into a new name. Maybe. Haven't figured that one out yet. When they talk, since they're linked mentally, the individuals can say parts of an entire sentence and tend to do so back and forth. The 'primary' or 'first' individual is the original Single, and the 'second' and 'third' are the individuals added to the group respectively. In social structure Triads generally outrank Duos who outrank Singles, but I'm thinking of it like a CEO outranks a VP who outranks a manager. All might be generally equal otherwise, but I haven't figured that one out. Only Unjoined can leave the planet. Don't know why, I just made it that way to advance the plot.

When they work, they work in concert. If you're a Triad, it's kind of like having 6 hands to be able to do more. Duos and Triads tend to stay grouped together but can be separated geographically. The grouping is more important than the individuals within the group. Going too far into adulthood before Joining leads to mental instability. They have some way of determining who should join with whom. Breaking the link, or becoming Unjoined back into a Single, can be mentally devastating and many don't survive (and I might have unintentionally taken too much of that from Anne McCaffrey's Dragonriders series, since now that I write it out it sounds a lot like what happens when a dragon dies). I haven't figured out what happens if one of the individuals in a group gets sick or injured badly enough to die--do they re-Join with another Single to prevent the mental problems?

Homes and transports would be designed with more seats, larger, and more rooms to accommodate the larger groupings. Yes, the individuals all have their own rooms. The groups don't all pile in bed with each other. I'm not into exploring the social issues of polygamy/polyandry/etc. This is something my young son reads, after all.

I haven't figured out their likes/dislikes/forms of entertainment/dinner plans/fears/joys/etc. The only thing I thought of was that since the weather is so bad a lot, they like to go outside when they can, but they don't stray far from safe cover.

 

How's that for grist for your mill?

[JediMaster12]

Sensitive to changes in time and yet they are linked as adults mentally. It sounds like you are stepping into the realms of magic.

 

Three is actually one of the powerful numbers to witches. 3,5 and the most powerful is 7. The number five is more common do to the sacred feminine factor in that five is often associated with all things feminine. The pentacle star for one. The human body makes it, the lengths of the sides have the divine proportion (Golden Ratio) and the planet Venus makes a pentacle star every eight years. In fact the Olypmic games were arranged around Venus's orbit.

 

The Joining ceremony is the passage into adulthood. A good example is a bar mitzvah, where the boy at the age 13 becomes a man in the eyes of Jewish law called Talmud. There are other kinds of ceremony for passage. Native American groups go on the vision quest which helps to determine their place in the tribe whether as a healer, a warrior and is often seen as an animal since animals are said to possess magical qualities. Native Americans traditonally tell of how things came to be through stories passed on in oral traditon. An example would be the Apache way in which they say "This is what my grandparents told me to be true..." It gives validity to the story.

 

I don't know much about dragons except that in Chinese folklore, they were highly considered and respected. They were even said to bring good luck. Only the Emperor of China could have the dragon on the Imperial crest and his colr was red another symbol for luck. Heck even crickets are considered good luck.

 

The part about only the Unjoined can leave the planet sounds a bit like the Melodies in EU. The Melodies are from Yavin system and the adults live in the deep crystal waters in the caves. The children are the only ones who can live on land seeing as they look like humans. When they become twenty years old, they undergo the changing ceremony in a shallow pool of algae where their legs are fused together into a tail and they develop gills and webbed hands. It is a specific time of the year and the time when the purella like to try and catch a Melodie.

 

Hope that helps a bit.

[Jae Onasi]

Any references to magic were unintentional, since I know almost nothing about witchcraft. Three and seven are also important numbers in Christianity, three signifying unity and seven signifying completion. I mainly stopped at 3 because I didn't want to make it any more complex than it was starting to be.

A vision quest could be an interesting aspect of Joining, though I have to admit the only time I've seen that was on an episode of Walker, Texas Ranger one time.

Haven't read about the Melodies, though that might be interesting to look at.

Thanks!

[machievelli]

Any references to magic were unintentional, since I know almost nothing about witchcraft. Three and seven are also important numbers in Christianity, three signifying unity and seven signifying completion. I mainly stopped at 3 because I didn't want to make it any more complex than it was starting to be.

A vision quest could be an interesting aspect of Joining, though I have to admit the only time I've seen that was on an episode of Walker, Texas Ranger one time.

Haven't read about the Melodies, though that might be interesting to look at.

Thanks!

 

 

If anyone is interested i have been a member of the Druidic Craft of the wise, a Wiccan organization for over 20 years.

 

As for 'magic', those who have read my KOTOR stuff would know that all Echani are empathic, and they bond with others. The way I got around this for Jedi or say soldiers, was to say they bonded to the ideals of the order or service.

[JediMaster12]

@ Jae: I know the number three is in reference to the Holy Trinity in Christianity and seven was as you said completion. Harry Potter also mentions the use of the number seven. In many cultures, numbers play a significant role in determining fate and the like such whether or not to go to war. The Golden Ratio is known as 1.618 and ties in with Fabonacci sequence. It is called the divine proportion for a reason. It is prevalent in all living things and scientist/mathematicians thought it to be the number of heaven.

On another note Jae, many things in the modern world are based in magic probably the exception being science. It is known as transmutation. Many symbols have been passed through the centuries and used by other cultures. An example is the Madonna and Child. The same image is depicted in images of Isis nursing Horus. Christmas and Easter were originally pagan holidays until Constatine used Christian events in place of the pagan holidays. Pagan comes from the Latin root meaning countryside. Another symbol is the triquetra, the symbol from Charmed. A Celtic symbol, Christian missionaries used the same symbol to stand for the Holy Trinity. The little almond shape is seen in the image of the Jesus fish and in pagan traditon meant fertility.

 

As far as religion and culture goes, outside influences have an impact as well. I'll use the Aztecs since that is my niche. They believe in thise fatalistic universe and that everything is a result of fate. In fact they predicted that the age we live in, the Fifth Sun, will end (translation) in a huge earthquake and the celestial monsters will come out of the ground and devour everyone and all will disappear. Most of their mythology has ties to environment. Tenochititlan (Mexico City) is located in the Basin of Mexico, an area ringed by mountains and volcanoes. Earthquakes are frequent. The creation story tells of four previous ages, each destroyed by natural disaster. One is where the volcanoes erupted and the people of that age turned to dogs and turkeys. The famous Aztec calendar actually tells the story of the the Five Suns with Tonatiuh, the god of the Fifth Sun, in the center and the symbols for the animals the people of the previous ages turned into. The border shows the twenty name days in the calendar round.

The calendar round is cyclical and extremely fatalistic. There are two calendars, one 365 day solar calendar and a 260 day lunar calendar. A complete calendar round tokk 52 years. Near the end of the 52 years was a time of uncertainty as the gods could revoke their favor. Different calander days had particular sacrifices to accompany it. Sacrifices were public events that included music and dancing. It was considered the best form of honor to die as a sacrifice than in battle as it was said that you would get to return as a hummingbird to enjoy the sweet nectars of the Earth. The calandar round was followed by all Mesoamerican cultures. The Classic Mayan developed the Long Count. Based on their calendar, this age is set to end December of 2013. If I were you, I'd get my affairs in order

[The Source]

How about an emergency of a military nature? Say a fighter coming in badly shot up, or escorting a freighter being checked over before landing?

 

Bogie:

The term bogie, also spelled bogey, refers to a false blip on a radar display. The term is also used to describe radar echoes that occur for unknown reasons, especially in the military, where such a signal might indicate hostile aircraft. There are two types of bogie: those that occur because of some real but unidentified or irrelevant object (called "real bogies" for the purpose of this discussion), and those that occur as a result of no concrete external object ("imaginary bogies").

 

A "real bogie" can be caused by an aircraft, a missile, a flock of birds, a tall ground-based metal structure, a balloon with a large payload or a radar-reflective coating, or (perhaps) an extraterrestrial spacecraft. Thunderstorms produce radar echoes, as do concentrated weather phenomena such as tornadoes. Meteors passing through the atmosphere create trails of ionized gas that can return radar signals. In the military, "real bogies" are sometimes produced by dropping myriad scraps of metal foil from high-flying aircraft, producing diffuse echoes that blind enemy radar over large regions.

[machievelli]

Bogie:

The term bogie, also spelled bogey, refers to a false blip on a radar display. The term is also used to describe radar echoes that occur for unknown reasons, especially in the military, where such a signal might indicate hostile aircraft. There are two types of bogie: those that occur because of some real but unidentified or irrelevant object (called "real bogies" for the purpose of this discussion), and those that occur as a result of no concrete external object ("imaginary bogies").

 

A "real bogie" can be caused by an aircraft, a missile, a flock of birds, a tall ground-based metal structure, a balloon with a large payload or a radar-reflective coating, or (perhaps) an extraterrestrial spacecraft. Thunderstorms produce radar echoes, as do concentrated weather phenomena such as tornadoes. Meteors passing through the atmosphere create trails of ionized gas that can return radar signals. In the military, "real bogies" are sometimes produced by dropping myriad scraps of metal foil from high-flying aircraft, producing diffuse echoes that blind enemy radar over large regions.

 

You forgot Helium balloons which because Helium is as metallic gas, reads as solid. The Song 99 red balloons (English title, German is Luftballoons) is based on the idea that WWIII starts because both sides pick up the balloons and assumes they are aircraft.

 

Back in the 60s, one thing they discovered was that some frequencies of radar (The ones used most commonly now) penetrate the atmosphere. In 1962 right after the Cuban missile crisis, NORAD reported a massive launch from Russia, but coming the wrong direction. It seemed to be from east to west, which made sense only if they were attacking Europe. While everyone was going on alert, an astute radar man checked an ephemeris then reported that the 'launch' was actually the moon. After that, they installed what is called a range gate, a software fix that tells the set 'if it is beyond X range, ignore it'.

[Jae Onasi]

Jae, being the retentive science type, is pointing out that helium does not fall on the metallic side of periodic table of elements. It is a noble gas and non-metallic.

Nevertheless, there is undoubtedly a good explanation for the radar signature--perhaps something metallic incorporated into the balloon itself rather than the gas filling the balloon?

[machievelli]

Jae, being the retentive science type, is pointing out that helium does not fall on the metallic side of periodic table of elements. It is a noble gas and non-metallic.

Nevertheless, there is undoubtedly a good explanation for the radar signature--perhaps something metallic incorporated into the balloon itself rather than the gas filling the balloon?

 

I do know that helium registers on a radar screen, which is why I called it metallic. I know this because when I was in the Coast Guard way back when, we had to launch an average of five balloons a day to take weather readings. The package was about the size of a sandwich, and when I asked a radar operator why we had such a clear return off such a small object, that was the answer he gave me.

[Jae Onasi]

I've been away at a conference for nearly 5 days--yesterday/night before was the first time I was able to get online, and that was only for a relatively short time, so I didn't get the chance to do much more than say hey, it's not a metal. Why it registers I don't know (yet, because of course now I have to find out the answer for my own curiosity). I caught some kind of bug during my travels (ugh) so I was too tired to do that last night. I should have some time today to meander around the internet. Here's a link for the periodic table of elements. They have a list of metals and non-metals.

 

http://www.chemicalelements.com/

 

I don't disbelieve you, btw--I'm sure it registers, I just don't know why.

[machievelli]

A question for those who have a copy of KOTOR II. Beyond Master Vandar, who survived the attack on Dantooine?

[Jae Onasi]

Vrook, since he's in the game at Khoonda. Bastila and Revan survive. Jolee is not mentioned at all other than in very brief references twice, and those don't say either way. I believe Zhar and Dorak are killed--if not there then on Miraluka when it's attacked by Nihilis, but I'd have to go look that up in some dialog files. Come to think of it, Vandar might have been killed on Miraluka, too. I'll check that one out some time later.

[machievelli]

Just checking. In my KOTOR novel I had killed off Vrook. Have to change it...

[machievelli]

In about a week we've had almost 300 hits on this thread. We must be doing something right. As the resident military man, I think we should explore another aspect of war, specifically merchant raiders pirates and armed merchant ships.

 

The history of armed merchantmen is long because until recently (The last three centuries or so) most countries honestly could not afford massive navies. Warships are expensive.

 

About 300 years ago most navies were merely small formations. The two largest navies in the world in 1700 were France and England in opposite order of size. The British Navy was only about 80 warships, the French about 70. An arms race not unlike our own cold war era had begun. But if you look at the entire world, and the area both nations were trying to protect, this is miniscule. Some places wer protected not by actual naval vessels, but armed merchantmen of the different chartered companies.

 

Sound familiar?

 

The British East India Company, also nicknamed 'John Company' included not only warships, but actual official army formations. The Indian Subcontinent was conquered not by the British 'Army', but by Company troops.

 

Most nations got around this in wartime by issuing what are called 'Letters or Marque and Reprisal'. A letter of Marque is an official document which states that the captain of the named vessel is acting as an auxiliary unit of a Nation's navy, with all of the rights that navy can demand.

 

A standard letter is published in a book entitled Mercenaries By Michael Lee Lanning. The important parts are excepted below;

 

"...to subdue, seize or take any armed or unarmed vessels of the British Empire... And also to retake any vessel, goods or effects of the people of the United States... This commission to contiune in force during the pleasure of the President of the United States for the time being."

 

In other words, this is a license to steal, pure and simple.

 

Why bother?

 

Because without such a document, you are a pirate. Piracy is almost as old as nautical travel itself, and the punishment has always been harsh. Hanging.

 

Captain Kidd, a famed pirate of the 18th century began with a British letter of Marque. But when one of his captains attacked an English vessel, he was labeled a pirate, and hung when captured.

 

Arming a merchant of that time was easy. Just buy the guns, cut out parts of the rail, deploy them, and voila!

 

The nations of our own world decided to stop it, and in 1856, the Paris treaty forbade issuing letters of marque and in fact arming merchant vessels unless they were taken into military service at the same time. However, two nations have never abided by this treaty. One was Britain, which has always maintained that they had the right to defend their ships in anyway they pleased.

 

The other was not as a lot of you might surmise Germany. It was our own US. The Brits signed the traty with the codicil I have mentioned. The United States in 1856 was not considered important enough. We observed but never signed it.

 

So why am I dunning you with history?

 

Because the way the Republic is run throughout the series of movies is not unlike our own world's imperial period. I can see a planet unable to build a true navy instead issuing letters of Marque.

 

Converting a merchantman of the Star Wars univers is both more difficult and easier than they had back in the day. Easier because most merchant vessels are a lot bigger than military ships, meaning they have room for prize crews, ammunition and weapons. More difficult because a warship is almost always faster than a merchantman, is more heavily constructed, and is designed to take the recoil of the weapons emplaced on them.

 

On a Star Trek Deep Space 9 episode in the sixth year they had a ship converted to raider, and when they fired the guns for the first time a lot of systems were knocked out of alignment. This is because as I said, they were not designed to carry such weapons. The heavier they are, the worse this problem would be.

 

As much as you might say 'but there is no recoil from energy weapons' you are correct but at the same time energy weapons such as blaster cannon and lasers and defenses such as shielding draw a lot of energy. Again a merchant vessel doesn't have a massive amount of energy generation to begin with. Why install all of the generators that a modern Battleship carries when your actual hotel load (Power necessary to run all systems) is smaller than a WWII destroyer? As an example, the hotel load of a super carrier is less than one 10th of the power it can generate.

 

You can't make money that way and civilian design in comparison to military has to be cost effective.

 

The worst problem is that civilian hull are weaker intrinsically than a warship. When you build a ship even down to the size of a patrol boat, you assume damage. You build in redundant systems, heavier blast doors, thicker hulls and decks. You plan for damage control, which increases you crew size, which also increases your required life support systems. A civilian ship on the other hand is built for the maximum amount of cargo that can be loaded in that space, and since you don't want to spend money on extra crew, a higher degree of automation. If a merchant is hit it will be more readily damaged and harder to repair.

 

So when you start loading weapons on that merchie, remember what I have said. Be sure to beef up the hull to take the pounding, beef up the generators so you can carry the energy load, and remember to increase casualties (If using this in an RPG).

[Jae Onasi]

I do know that helium registers on a radar screen, which is why I called it metallic. I know this because when I was in the Coast Guard way back when, we had to launch an average of five balloons a day to take weather readings. The package was about the size of a sandwich, and when I asked a radar operator why we had such a clear return off such a small object, that was the answer he gave me.

 

I asked a friend of mine in the USAF about this, figuring he might have an answer, but in the meantime while waiting for an answer I found this link. The radiosonde has a transmitter which may help with the return.

 

http://www.erh.noaa.gov/gyx/weather_balloons.htm

 

I haven't found out if helium makes an infrared return yet (which might be an alternate explanation). I just know that since He is not metallic, that it can't be for that reason.

[machievelli]

I asked a friend of mine in the USAF about this, figuring he might have an answer, but in the meantime while waiting for an answer I found this link. The radiosonde has a transmitter which may help with the return.

 

http://www.erh.noaa.gov/gyx/weather_balloons.htm

 

I haven't found out if helium makes an infrared return yet (which might be an alternate explanation). I just know that since He is not metallic, that it can't be for that reason.

 

I knew the Radarman pretty well, and both of us had taken into account the radio transponder. I would like to hear what you're friend said. After all I'm talking over 30 years ago.

[Jae Onasi]

Sable Phoenix posted this link about lightsabres over at the kotorfanmedia boards, and the science was so interesting I thought I'd post it here for you all (with kudos to Sable Phoenix for finding and posting it there).

The upstart of a large chunk of it is that 'lightsabres are not made up of just light'. It includes analysis and fighting techniques.

Of course, it's going to take me forever to convert from writing 'lightsaber' to 'lightsabre'.

 

Lightsabres

[Jae Onasi]

I knew the Radarman pretty well, and both of us had taken into account the radio transponder. I would like to hear what you're friend said. After all I'm talking over 30 years ago.

 

My friend got back to me this am. Background on him--he's a flight surgeon in the USAF and is currently assigned to NASA's astronaut program, so I know he has a serious Clue on a lot of things (or can find the answers if he doesn't know).

He said the balloons were radar reflective because the balloon material itself was metallized, not because of the He. He said he didn't know by what process the balloons were metallized, however, because he didn't think they had Mylar til after WWII.

I learn something new every day.

I'm totally speculating on this part here, so take this with a grain of salt, but my guess would be that if the balloons were metallized, they incorporated metal in some format while the latex was still liquid (as opposed to attaching it somehow later after the balloon was formed).

I did read that they also sometimes had metal streamers attached to increase the radar signature.

Your trivia for the day.

[machievelli]

To Melee or not to melee;

 

The Soldier drew his melee weapon-

 

Now wait just a minute? Melee is a type of fight, not a weapon! A melee is where it's up close and personal as war was long before the invention of the bow or gun.

 

Melee weapons are broken into two broad categories, blunt and edged. A club is a melee weapon, as is a knife, but one does damage by cutting and stabbing, the other by blunt force trauma. You can get killed just as readily when the man has a quarterstaff instead of a lightsaber, but you're still dead.

 

We could go on in the descriptions, thrusting or slashing, serrated or razor sharp. fluid like a whip or heavy like a mace but you should have the picture now. I have a book entitled Weapons by the Diagram Group and they had 37 different varieties and styles of blunt weapons and two or three hundred different stabbing, cutting, and slashing weapons.

 

So whether it's a character in a story, or an RPG, look at what your person is carrying.

Is it a knife? Sword? stun baton? Whatever it is, describe it. If they have to use it, have them use that not their 'melee' weapon.

 

As an example, I had a character who was an assassin in a comedy story I was writing. She carried two curved double edged sickle swords (Sharply curved) a pair of brass knuckles a garrote and a ninja hand bow (A slingshot arrangement that fires short crossbow bolts).

[machievelli]

The Republic military: An overview.

 

As much as we constantly talk of the Republic's military, the military we are using is actually an alliance. Each of the planets that have militaries and militias would have their own uniforms, ranks, weapons and tactics. The German Army of Today still wears their own uniforms when on NATO duty, and fields their own Armored vehicles artillery, and infantry weapons.

 

The Republic in other words, is NATO writ large.

 

This doesn't mean there's a lot of confusion. NATO drills constantly, and they have become a cohesive force by learning the strengths and weaknesses of each ally. They have created a playbook if you will of how something can be done, and how others do it.

 

This has caused changes even in the way every army uses their troops. The French Division shrank because the German divisional formation is more efficient, even though it has about two third of the men. The Americans developed the modern Armored Cavalry Regiment (Which is a Brigade in size) by seeing what the Israelis do with the largest standard formation, the Brigade.

 

What the Republic has that NATO does not, is a combined Staff and Tactical college that every officer proably goes to.

 

The only time I could see them being a combined unit was during the clone wars and Empire. Everything standardized right down to the weapons the troops carry.

[stingerhs]

^^^^

i think the biggest difference there, though, would be that a lot systems didn't field much more than a security force, much like Naboo in Ep. I. although some systems might have been willing to run war games and other forms of training involving larger militaries, i think its quite apparent that the Repbublic wasn't unified enough to field a military that could challenge the Seperatists. otherwise, there wouldn't have been a need for the Clone Army in the first place.

 

its been my understanding of the Clone Wars that the systems and organizations that had a military or a method to quickly produce a military joined the Seperatists which is one reason why things would've been so hopeless for many of the Republic Systems during the escalation that led to the Clone Wars. in my 'Betrayal and Retribution' series, a major part of the story involves those same reasonings which is based on a lot of research into various EU and Official databases on the Star Wars Universe.

[machievelli]

^^^^

i think the biggest difference there, though, would be that a lot systems didn't field much more than a security force, much like Naboo in Ep. I. although some systems might have been willing to run war games and other forms of training involving larger militaries, i think its quite apparent that the Repbublic wasn't unified enough to field a military that could challenge the Seperatists. otherwise, there wouldn't have been a need for the Clone Army in the first place.

 

That is why I added Militias to the commentary, stingerhs. Before the 1780s the US didn't have a standing army per se Each campaign was dempendant on militas. Once the war was over they couldn't disband the 'Fedeal' army fast enough. The Federal government had to call up militias, which is where the 2nd Amendment came from. Madison (Author of the amendment) commented in the Federalist papers that 'what chance would an oppressive Federal government have if their army is faced by armed militianmen of equal caliber?'.

 

The Military of Naboo is by my definition a Militia rather than an army.

 

its been my understanding of the Clone Wars that the systems and organizations that had a military or a method to quickly produce a military joined the Seperatists which is one reason why things would've been so hopeless for many of the Republic Systems during the escalation that led to the Clone Wars. in my 'Betrayal and Retribution' series, a major part of the story involves those same reasonings which is based on a lot of research into various EU and Official databases on the Star Wars Universe.

 

I think in actuality that it was the ones who have a hive or socialist leaning society that were the backbone of the Separatists, not merely the ability to raise and supply an army but the willingness to use that army to support the political and economic aims of their society. Otherwise the Separatists would have won at the outset.

 

I am looking at it not as a social scientist but as a military man. Each of the societies represented at Geonosis were not militant, rather they were socialist or aquisitive, extending their society/attitudes onto the Republic as a whole. That is the problem with an alliance based primarily on trade, you assume your well being as a supplier/industrialist is more important than the wellbeing of the being who works in your factories.

 

That is why the original Confederation that the Bill or Rights fostered collapsed to become the Republic that the Constitution supports.

[Jae Onasi]

I also had the impression (rightly or wrongly) that the Republic could have put together an army long before the Clone wars had started if the Senate had not been bogged down in debate.

I.e. they were trying to decide if the Trade federation was really a threat, and if so if it could be dealt with diplomatically, but few of them ever got around to thinking of getting any kind of military force together to deal with it. I got the idea that it was sort of like Europe sitting on its hands in the late 30's/early 40's trying appeasement rather than building an army while Hitler amassed a large and well trained force in plain sight.

[stingerhs]

I think in actuality that it was the ones who have a hive or socialist leaning society that were the backbone of the Separatists, not merely the ability to raise and supply an army but the willingness to use that army to support the political and economic aims of their society. Otherwise the Separatists would have won at the outset.

no, the Seperatists were not socialists. just look at who provided the backbone of the Seperatist Army: the Trade Federation, the Banking Clan, the Commerce Guild, the Techno Union, and the Corporate Alliance. these are huge businesses that want to control the galaxy without government interferance. that is the reason for the Trade Federation attacking Naboo in the first movie, and it is the same reason why they all join the Seperatists: the promise from Count Dooku of a pure capitalistic economy where they would be the sole competitors. these are not corporations looking for a strong central government (ie, a socialist government), they are corporations looking for a government that will leave them alone to do their business without interference.

 

edit: okay, i've been doing some outlining for my story, and i was wondering if anyone knows what the Jedi Trials consisted of. my guess is that they would've had a test of Wisdom, a test of one's connection to the Force, and a test of Lightsaber skills. does anybody else have any ideas??