Lynk Former Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 Wavedash was players taking advantage of a minor error in the games physics and not an official thing. And about the balance thing, you said yourself that you knew this team knew Smash Bros inside and yet you still think that they'd make an unbalanced character and add it to the game through WiiConnect24?... What I mean was overall balance between all of the characters, not just 1 on 1 balance. As for the controls... let's take a look at the GCN controls and the Wiimote + analog attachment controls and work this out... Analog stick = move, jump, attack direction. D-Pad up = Taunt A = Attacks B = Standard attacks X and Y = Jump C = cheap smashes which no one uses L and R = Shield Z = Grab That was the GCN layout.... so now let's look at the Wii mote + Analog attachment shall we. Moving jumping and attack direction can easily be handled by the Analog stick on the attachment. Furthermore if people require a button to jump, then D-Pad down is easily accessable from the natural hold position of the Wiimote. A and B on the Wiimote will do exactly what they would do with the GCN controller. Z would work as your shield and C would be grab. And finally taunt would be D-Pad up... ...now that only thing missing is the cheap smashes that the C stick handled with the GCN controller... will anyone miss those? I certainly won't since they were bloody useless. But overall... you have the setup right there with the only major differences being that you don't have cheap smashes, you don't have two buttons to work the shield or two jump buttons, and the controller is separated into two pieces. Everything looks fine to me. They don't have to use the Wiimote's unique abilities at all, perhaps only for menus but that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Windu Posted May 13, 2006 Author Share Posted May 13, 2006 The **** they were. Cstick smashes are an integral part of pro venue play in SSBM; they allow you to perform aerial attacks without fast-falling and potentially killing yourself. Cstick smashes come out faster than reg smashes cause there's no stall time in charging (even a minor stall time in charge can screw you over and result in loss of a stock). In addition cstick smashes are useful in linking combos, shffling, etc. Cstick is definitely necessary to play smash at a good speed. analog stick attachment is pretty hard to short hop on, another integral part of pro venue smash. I would imagine that you can't perform a slight flick on the analog stick as well as you can on a controller because the nunchucks are not held down firmly and you can move them around. L canceling is also a huge part of smash, and it's stuck through both ssb and ssbm. I also imagine l canceling will be harder with your arm shifting (even a little) as you play. How do you intend to shieldgrab with Z being both grab and shield? it's clumsy and unresponsive that way. Shieldgrab generally is used in R+A situations, not Z+A because that leaves you with a possibility of making a mistake and grabbing when you wanted to shield. 2 buttons for jump are also a big part of smash imo- I use them all the time, and so do other people. Many people prefer using the X button to SHL with Falco rather than flick up on the control stick (which is hard to do on a sturdy controller, let alone one loosely attached by a cord) Also, you answered your own question - I stated before that unless there was an actual development team dedicated to continual balancing of the game with new characters there would be a lot of **** going down in terms of unbalanced gameplay. I don't imagine Nintendo would be like "hey let's pay people X (where x is a variable) money to sit around and think up new characters and make sure they're completely workable before handing them out to the crowd" It would be more intelligent and safer in the long run to establish the set amount of characters at the release of the game, and keep it at that. This way, the balance is ensured. But hey, if you can show me that Nintendo has hired a dev team that will be developing new characters and maintaining balance after SSBB is released, then I'll shut my mouth. I remember reading somewhere that wavedash was actually discovered by developers during initial testing of the game, but they left it in. I imagine that happened more than a few times with things like l canceling. At any rate, wavedashing is such a huge part of the game for some people that the removal of wavedashing would have dire effects on the smash community. People like MookieRah who use Mewtwo as their main will no longer be able to keep up with people like Aurafox and Ken who use faster characters such as Fox and Marth. Wiimote would just be too clumsy to play a traditional fighting game with, imo. You need some sort of sturdiness to accurately input attacks and techniques- sturdiness is not a 2 ft wire attached to a remote and stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 So basically they will get everyone to buy a GCN controller just to play this game? Is this an EyeToy game?..................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Windu Posted May 13, 2006 Author Share Posted May 13, 2006 That's why the GC shell exists, and old gc controllers.. If they use the wiimote, then I don't think it'll have the same speed, skill, etc required by smash, and it would be too simplified. Either that or it'll be really clunky. A wiimote player is going to be dominated by a gc controller user in ssbb..it just isn't feasible to play it on wiimote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 Tbe point I am trying to make is that when Sakurai said "hold onto your GCN controllers" he was specifically talking about people like you, those who take the game EXTREMELY seriously. HOWEVER he never said that it wouldn't work for the Wiimote, to restrict a game to JUST traditional pads would be suicide, especialy for a huge game like this. True, Wiimote players will get owned by Classic controller players, but that's not the point I was making. The point I was making is that it will need to be compatible with the Wiimote because the system COMES with the Wiimote. The option for it to work just as Melee does with the GCN controller (and Classic controller) is for the serious players. Remember, not EVERYONE will buy a GCN controller or Classic controller just to play this game. Think about this from an "everyone" view, not a "hardcore" view and it will make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Windu Posted May 13, 2006 Author Share Posted May 13, 2006 Of course, I have already taken this into account. Smash isn't fun after a couple rounds when your friends get mad and chuck their controllers because you beat them. On equal playing ground everyone has fun. To be honest I don't take the game seriously at all, not enough to continue going to tournaments and stuff. But I still like to be good at the game and see myself improving my skill. I know that he said it wouldn't be restricted to gc controllers only; yes Lynk I understand logic (gasp) but even casual players of SSBB will want a gc controller or shell to at least have equal playing field with others. Think of it as driving a moped and driving a motorcycle; one exists but one is clearly the better choice. However if one cannot afford the better choice then there's always the moped to fall back on. Clunky control or smooth sexy control? Choice is yours. also I note that cstick smashing is generally only held to be "dishonorable" or "cheap" among casual gamers. Before I went into the whole smash scene I used to think the same thing, but there was really nothing wrong with it, and I still used it on occasion. aaaand that's about the extent we can beat this horse. Next topic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 XD I never said that the GCN controller wasn't the better choice, it just sounded like you thought there was only ONE choice for the game. Yes, it is like playing Gran Turismo with the standard PS2 controller or with a Steering wheel, everyone will want to play with the steering wheel. I know exactly what you're talking about, but like I said, it sounded like you thought it physically couldn't be done with the Wiimote. As for your last post, I think you misunderstood some of my control suggestions... XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seph Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 Some people have told me that if you look at one of the clouds carefully in the trailor you can see an outline of Cloud from FFVII... can anyone confirm this false or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 It's false. VERY false. Anywayz, as for downloadable characters, the idea came to me that it could be possible to have nonplayable characters imported into SSBB through OTHER games you buy or from an auto download from WiiConnect24... XD That would by a nice lil treat, though i doubt they'd do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seph Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 I Knew it, Topshot said he saw him though, anyways, the whole downloadable character thing would just be bad cause believe it or not some people don't have internet connection, so some people would miss out on chars. I like the idea of importing certain characters from other games, have like a little insert with the instruction manual, with a password, enter that in and you can import characters from that game, but I don't know How that'd work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 Actually it's pretty easy, You have SSBB, you have a saved game of SSBB. You then buy, say... the Resident Evil game that's coming out on Wii starring Leon Kennedy. So you insert the RE game into the Wii and you either have to finish the game, or simply have a saved game, and what will happen is the files for the new character are copied from the disc onto one of your SD cards that you'll have in the Wii. So next time you boot up SSBB, a new challenger has appeared, it's Leon, and any time you want to fight him and other imported characters you go into "Challenger" mode which has a list of all of the imported nonplayable fighters. Having it this way would allow people to square off with new Nintendo and third party characters while keeping the balance of SSBB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seph Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 but then wouldn't you have to update SSBB everytime a new game with an unlockable character would come out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 You don't have to no since the imported characters aren't playable and that they're only accessable in "Challenger" mode. All SSBB would do is detect what imported characters are on the SD cards in the Wii for you to fight against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seph Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 [Guiness voice] Brilliant[/Guiness voice]That'd be a great addition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Windu Posted May 14, 2006 Author Share Posted May 14, 2006 That doesn't give you balance because some of your friends won't have Leon/whoever and they won't know how to play against him/with him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 Did you miss the hundred times I said "nonplayable" and "challenger mode"? In otherwords, separating them so they don't interfere with the game but are just fun lil extras? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Windu Posted May 14, 2006 Author Share Posted May 14, 2006 You said it twice, and didn't clarify what the hell "challenger" mode was. You said nonplayable so I was like what's the point of having people you can't play as... blah, whatever. I got it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zelda 41 Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 I wants a Wii and SSB3. LINK!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 You said it twice, and didn't clarify what the hell "challenger" mode was. You said nonplayable so I was like what's the point of having people you can't play as... blah, whatever. I got it now. It's like mission mode, cept a little more customisable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Windu Posted May 14, 2006 Author Share Posted May 14, 2006 You continue to succeed in confusing the hell out of me, Lynky. Whaaaaaaaaat? At any rate, I only want two characters: Blastoise and Star Wolf. I have a good feeling they'll put in Star Wolf... he was in the intro of the last one... prominently in the SF portion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 Events, Mike... you know the list of missions you have in Melee? You have played it right? Nevermind. I can't see Blastoise added at all seeing as there are other better Pokemon that could be added which won't be anywayz lol. But Star Wolf, yeah, he'd be so kickass Wolf had a lot of "air time" in Star Fox Assault and was an unlockable character in Assaults multiplayer mode. But another character from Star Fox that I really want added is Krystal. We know she's into the martial arts and we know that she has a staff and psychic powers... but she's been pretty useless so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Windu Posted May 14, 2006 Author Share Posted May 14, 2006 I called those events, not missions. I know Blastoise won't be added, but he's my fav pokemon. They'll probably add some new pokemon Also I feel someone else from Fire Emblem will be in it but hopefully not a sword user, maybe Hector with his axe or Ephraim with his lance. I don't treat any of the new SF as canon so I don't like Krystal. I'm going to be mad if they use the Fox design from the assault/adventures games... he's so ugly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 They won't change Fox, don't worry, just look at Samus, her Varia suit resembles the old classic Metroid style rather than what Retro Studios has done even though Zero suit Samus is in the same game and her design is modern. As for Krystal, I don't like her either, but that's cause she's been useless and hasn't done anything worth going "weyhey, she's cool" about. I hope Wind Waker Link is in there somewhere as an unlockable character lol I imagine some interesting things coming from his comical nature. It would also be cool if a Space Pirate from Metroid was a playable character. If you think about it they'd have some pretty interesting moves with the scythe and laser combo happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seph Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 I'd like it if someone like Kratos from tales of symphonia makes it as an unlockable character He could have the angel wings, and fly like pit his moves could be something like B = Demon Fang/Fierce Demon Fang Up+B = Victory Lightspear/Lightspear Cannon Toward/Back+B = Super Lightening Blade Down+B = Guardian Limit(with the little orb) His Hidden Tech I can't remember the name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topshot Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 I'd like it if someone like Kratos from tales of symphonia makes it as an unlockable character He could have the angel wings, and fly like pit his moves could be something like B = Demon Fang/Fierce Demon Fang Up+B = Victory Lightspear/Lightspear Cannon Toward/Back+B = Super Lightening Blade Down+B = Guardian Limit(with the little orb) His Hidden Tech Grave Blade . I like TOS Kratos too, and I hope he makes it as one, but I think that's overpowering him a bit, sans the Demon Fang and Guardian, don't you think? They'd have to nerf his Grave Blade technique's power down a few notches, just so it doesn't break the balance of gameplay. Third party characters are good, but I just hope they don't make too much of a habit out of it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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