Make lightsabers valuable tools, things of pride!

[UDM]

Then again, I hardly use DFAs in OJP. To me, they're only there for show, but the pros might disagree

[Tokakeke]

It was just an example

 

All moves would be buyable. Even just the basic ones. I realize this might cause issues with the idle animations, but if needed the chosen stance could transition to the idle animation for the move's stance, then go into the move..

 

Knowing nothing about animation, dunno, really.

[JRHockney*]

It was just an example

 

All moves would be buyable. Even just the basic ones. I realize this might cause issues with the idle animations, but if needed the chosen stance could transition to the idle animation for the move's stance, then go into the move..

 

Knowing nothing about animation, dunno, really.

 

I'd love to see buyable moves. I've suggested this in the past, but we are still a long ways from doing that.

[Maxstate]

*Takes a deep breath*

 

Using stances to represent forms of lightsaber combat is a bad idea, simply because nobody in the movies used these stances.

 

Yes, they did. Every jedi has a different fighting style based upon the 7 forms. Every jedi is trained in Shii Cho first, which is like the simplest of simple combination of moves and the simplest mentality one can learn. Later on a jedi chooses a style that best resembles his inner-self, or the style that his mentor learned before him. For example, in Ep1 Obi-wan got taught the agressive, acrobatic form Ataru from Qui-Gon. You could see him sweeping, flipping and using the force to empower and speedup his attacks a lot.

Later on he switched to his variant of Soresu due to personal issues, and you could tell the difference. If you dont believe me, look at the Obi-Grievous fight again.

 

They used some moves of each, however. I always felt purple and cyan were extremely close to Windu and Palpatine's styles.

I dont think you've ever tried any sports involving sword combat eh?

Look at the simple way someone like Kit Fisto fights, then compare it to the late Obi held back defensive style. A personal style is based on a form, no jedi style is the same ofcourse and a jedi can cross styles and forms to suit his personal fighting style but the fact remains that the 7 forms were used.

 

What I'd like to see is a force menu that let you buy moves from each stance. For example, I could buy the DFA or overhead flip (red and yellow, jump + attack + forward), but not both. Other moves would be the same. You could choose a very unpredictable Vaapad style with different looking swings by using a strong forward attack (as with the red) but one handed side swings (like cyan/blue)

Get 'a codin' then. I dont want to attack you personally but it seems like you just drop by here and express ideas without knowing the full extent of progress here in the community. We already have new animations that are almost exactly true to the nature of the seven forms, and there is also a style that is exactly like the one you described. But, the most important thing you need to know -something I told the MB community as well- is that its about the mentality; the mindset, the way of thinking and not the animation set.

 

Sure, the slashes you make, the moves you execute are important but if you dont have it here *points to head and heart*, you wont be able to do **** here *points to saber/mouse*

 

That would be sweet.

I agree, but its unneccessary. I can customize animations for you when I get back if you want, but you can try the ones we have now first.

[Vruki Salet]

So maxstate are your new anims exclusively for the use of ojp enhanced?

[JRHockney*]

So maxstate are your new anims exclusively for the use of ojp enhanced?

 

I think they are because the anims include tavion and desann styles (unless OJP basic has those too). I suppose he could make them work for basic too, but he has several things he's still working on at the moment. Ask him again when he gets back. I'd also recommend moviestances_2.0 at jk2files as a great replacement.

[Maxstate]

I think they are because the anims include tavion and desann styles (unless OJP basic has those too). I suppose he could make them work for basic too, but he has several things he's still working on at the moment. Ask him again when he gets back. I'd also recommend moviestances_2.0 at jk2files as a great replacement.

 

Well since Razor opposes 3rd party content I was thinking of just making some sort of community add-on pack or something. The anims work with base, I guess the red, blue, staff and dual ones will work as well but they dont have a lot of slash changes. First and foremost (Ill post it here not to forget) I need to :

-Fix a red slash for UDM

-Get back those deflect anims

-Somehow get back the work I did for my latest anim.cfg, which I lost after my reformat

[razorace]

Opposes 3rd party content?

[Tokakeke]

Yes, they did. Every jedi has a different fighting style based upon the 7 forms. Every jedi is trained in Shii Cho first, which is like the simplest of simple combination of moves and the simplest mentality one can learn. Later on a jedi chooses a style that best resembles his inner-self, or the style that his mentor learned before him. For example, in Ep1 Obi-wan got taught the agressive, acrobatic form Ataru from Qui-Gon. You could see him sweeping, flipping and using the force to empower and speedup his attacks a lot.

Later on he switched to his variant of Soresu due to personal issues, and you could tell the difference. If you dont believe me, look at the Obi-Grievous fight again.I dont think you've ever tried any sports involving sword combat eh? Look at the simple way someone like Kit Fisto fights, then compare it to the late Obi held back defensive style. A personal style is based on a form, no jedi style is the same ofcourse and a jedi can cross styles and forms to suit his personal fighting style but the fact remains that the 7 forms were used.

 

What the hell? Did you even read my post? I said that the Jedi don't use "blue, yellow, red" stances, not that they don't use forms as you described.

 

 

Get 'a codin' then. I dont want to attack you personally but it seems like you just drop by here and express ideas without knowing the full extent of progress here in the community. We already have new animations that are almost exactly true to the nature of the seven forms, and there is also a style that is exactly like the one you described.

 

 

Well, I'm sorry for making suggestions. God forbid I actually express ideas and opinions on this forum without having the level of C coding experience to actually implement them! Tell ya what. We should just take it one step further, and you guys can ban anyone who makes a suggestion, on sight, unless they successfully implement it.At the time, there was no threads saying "there are forms animated that are close to these styles", and even if they were, you have the nerve to attack me because I haven't been here for a while? Then pretend to be cordial while you blatantly tell me to GTFO? That's bull****.

 

But, the most important thing you need to know -something I told the MB community as well- is that its about the mentality; the mindset, the way of thinking and not the animation set. Sure, the slashes you make, the moves you execute are important but if you dont have it here *points to head and heart*, you wont be able to do **** here *points to saber/mouse*

 

 

Um, what does this have to do with animations/lightsaber styles?

 

 

My overriding point is that nobody in the movies used exclusively one stance, or even anything close to them - therefore it's silly to try to compare them to forms. Instead, they used a mix of moves from each as well as a large amount of moves not represented in JKA. This is why I suggested a buyable move scenario where a player could buy moves from each stance in order to create their own unique style, rather than simply assigning forms to stances and keeping the red, yellow, blue "this does more damage than this and also it's slower lawls" intact. I'm sorry if this pisses you off or something. -_-

[JRHockney*]

Alright guys, I'm sensing an old MB2 rivalry or something along those lines. I would prefer if all rivalries and such were put aside while on these forums so lets kill this thing before it becomes a vindictive argument. Or just discuss it without any vain remarks if possible.

 

Max, Toka is plenty welcome to post ideas whether their good ideas, out of the loop, or we now the answer already. Heck, we let noobs do it all the time, so if anyone misses progress we've made, it doesnt disqualify them from posting.

 

Toka, try not to take it personally. Max has been making anim replacement mods for us for awhile so he's alittle more critical about animation ideas than most of us. You might remember Maxstate as TK Paddy from the MB2 forums so maybe that makes more sense with his comments or something.

 

Anyways, maybe I shouldnt have said anything, but its late and I'm not think clearly. Go about your business.

[Vruki Salet]

I think they are because the anims include tavion and desann styles (unless OJP basic has those too).

 

Sorry what I meant to ask is, can anybody use his anims like for their own mod, or does he want them only to be used by razor ace & ojp as his exclusive content.

 

 

BTW I haven't seen any of them yet. Where can I find them?

[JRHockney*]

Sorry what I meant to ask is, can anybody use his anims like for their own mod, or does he want them only to be used by razor ace & ojp as his exclusive content.

 

Hmm, I don't think so. He mostly just used the animations from the threatrics mod for FM3 with a few interesting substitutes. They are probably fair game to anyone who wants to use them. You can still get his permission if you want, but I wouldn't worry too much about it.

[Vruki Salet]

What's the theatrics mod for forcemod? I'll look it up but if you can give me a quick link that's great.

 

____________

 

 

I just looked for it a & the pcgamemds.com site is broken atm. Does anyone have a copy of this theatrics mod he can give me?

[UDM]

I didn't know theatrics was for FM3

 

In any case, it can be found on pcgamemods. I'd give you the link, but pcgamemods seems to be down atm...

 

You can check out other saber anims mods, and stick the necessary files into ojp_animations.pk3. Just remember to back it up. There's a good one, I think it's called chaos force, it's got some interesting animations. Most don't work with purple and aqua though

[razorace]

I don't recommend people changing the internal stuff inside .pk3s. It can cause massive problems if you're trying to play or run pure servers. The best way to do it is to make a new .pk3 with a name that is in lower alphabetically order than the .pk3 you're trying to replace.

 

For example, OJP_enhanceddlls_0.0.9c.pk3's files would be overridden by OJP_enhanceddlls_0.0.9g.pk3's files.

[RendarQueloon]

Maybe put in simple bonuses for purchasing each saber type. But make the cost worth the bonus

 

Yellow = Shii-cho (No cost, No Bonus)

Tavion = Makashi (Greater Chance at causing mishaps (mostly the disarm mishap)

Blue = soresu (less DP loss for successful parries, less force drain for deflecting)

One handed dual style = ataru (More DP damage if attack hits while in air)

Red = Djem-So (Greater DP dmg for all hits that are not successfully blocked)

One handed staff style = Niman (Consular form... so.. maybe faster force regen)

Desann = Juyo/Vaapad (some type of bonus given to fake attacks, maybe more DP dmg to fake attacks that are not successfully parried)

 

Just a few thoughts

[JRHockney*]

Maybe put in simple bonuses for purchasing each saber type. But make the cost worth the bonus

 

Yellow = Shii-cho (No cost, No Bonus)

Tavion = Makashi (Greater Chance at causing mishaps (mostly the disarm mishap)

Blue = soresu (less DP loss for successful parries, less force drain for deflecting)

One handed dual style = ataru (More DP damage if attack hits while in air)

Red = Djem-So (Greater DP dmg for all hits that are not successfully blocked)

One handed staff style = Niman (Consular form... so.. maybe faster force regen)

Desann = Juyo/Vaapad (some type of bonus given to fake attacks, maybe more DP dmg to fake attacks that are not successfully parried)

 

Just a few thoughts

 

Who are you and how do you know our system so well!!! LOL

 

These arent bad ideas and I wouldnt be opposed to such a setup; however, razors never been a big fan of seven forms ideas or giving certain styles magical abilities. These are fairly subtle though. We'll have to see what he says.

[RendarQueloon]

Ive been playing OJP Enhanced for awhile and visit the forums often, just never felt the need to post untill now.

 

Does anyone have a link to the saber animations Maxstate made? I would love to see those.

[UDM]

Yeah personally, I'm also against the whole idea of giving bonuses and such. Right now, the styles have their advantages and disadvantages, and I think they will suffice. For example, blue reduces dp loss when blocking. Red takes in more DP, but deals more too

 

But anyway, to relate styles, I agree for the most part, but...

 

Yellow - Shii-Cho

Aqua (tavion) - Makashi

Blue - Soresu

One-handed dual saber - Niman (which according to Wikipedia, is the style which causes the user to get 0wned by his enemy. Also, Niman is the stepping stone to Jar-Kai, which is dual saber form)

Red - Djem-so

Purple - Ataru. According to Wikipedia, Ataru needs open spaces to fight, uses wide slashes etc...that all fits Purple more than it does for the other stances. Besides, Purple is almost a mix of all the stances

Staff - Juyo/Vaapad. Wikipedia says it all

Two sabers - Jar'Kai (not in the 7 forms)

 

Wiki link here

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightsaber_combat

 

I've bolded the parts that I feel are more suitable. So there you have it! I guess no more arguments to it

[razorace]

These arent bad ideas and I wouldnt be opposed to such a setup; however, razors never been a big fan of seven forms ideas or giving certain styles magical abilities. These are fairly subtle though. We'll have to see what he says.

Right, I'm definitely not a fan of the seven forms theory.

 

As for the ideas, I think the powers need to be related to the practical effects of the style. Realistically, your ability to regenerate the Force probably isn't going to be affected by which style you're using at the moment. That being said, there are some things that could be practical, like maybe purple does more DP damage, but also results in more mishap increases because the style is more agressive than normal.

[RendarQueloon]

Well the theory behind the more force regen for Niman stance is that its the consular stance. Its the stance that diplomats and more force orientated jedi learned because it was quick and simple and allowed them to focus more on their connection to the force, as oppossed to saber fighting.

 

In the Star Wars D20 RPG book the exact bonus for those using Niman Stance is +2 diplomacy, +1 on all force rolls.

 

So I thought it was fitting

[UDM]

I don't know, but if you ask me, holding a staff in front of me is going to make my enemy **** his pants than sit down and talk

 

I think for fictional purposes, it's fun to discuss about this anyway . After all, OJP is closer to movie forms than any other mods. Anyway, reason why I suggested having Niman as the one handed dual style is because...well you lost your saber, and you're wielding with your left hand. That makes you weaker, since technically all the characters in game are right handed. Then, this means that you're more in the mood for diplomacy. You're less aggressive too. And besides, it is the stepping stone to Jar'Kai after all. In terms of diplomacy and all that other stuff, I think the other stances don't seem as fitting. Staff especially

 

By the way Razor, is it possible to change stances when using dual sabers, but instead of getting blue stance, we get the one saber dual stance? I think it's more fitting, and it looks cooler too. Not that I roleplay, but it would be sweet and nastier than having gay blue all the time

[Vruki Salet]

<rant>

Niman can't be the foundation of dual saber use. I don't care what wiki/wookiepedia or the star wars RPG or whoever says. Niman was only supposed to be developed in the 1000 years of peace in the Republic since the Ruusan Reformation, when Jedi became less martial and more diplomatic, political and police-like. Yet duals were routinely used way before then like in KOTOR days. Niman is a modern jedi (fictionally speaking o'course , prequel-era) style for modern jedi needs. Duals were around in the olden days and learned by jedi who were at war. Yet more commonly it seems.

 

I think it makes much more sense that most or all the forms could have duals variants, just like a staff could be used to accomplish the techniques and intentions of each form in its own way.

</rant>

[UDM]

Still, Niman isn't as useful as the other stances in multiplayer because it's a diplomat's stance. Therefore, the best call would still have to go to dual one handed stance

[Vruki Salet]

No the best call is to skip it. It's not a form for people who want to battle it out with lightsabers - it's a stance for people who would rather play backgammon, the sims or "galactic republic tycoon" or some such.