What if KOTOR3 Never happens

[Jediphile]

There was a lot of talk about it over on Obsidian's forums (which I no longer visit), where it was pointed out that it was Lucasarts that pushed the deadline. But no, I can't point to the specific quote. If you ask over there, I'm sure someone can, though.

 

I do recall someone from Obsidian saying the situation arose from circumstances beyond their control, or something to that effect, which most took as confirmation that LA had pushed the deadline, and which was never denied.

[DarkLord152]

There was a lot of talk about it over on Obsidian's forums (which I no longer visit), where it was pointed out that it was Lucasarts that pushed the deadline. But no, I can't point to the specific quote. If you ask over there, I'm sure someone can, though.

 

I do recall someone from Obsidian saying the situation arose from circumstances beyond their control, or something to that effect, which most took as confirmation that LA had pushed the deadline, and which was never denied.

Please say that in english so I can understand it more thanks.

 

I have pruned the off-topic responses to this post.

 

DarkLord152, I don't see where Jediphile's post is not in english? His post is in plain english on my end. -RH

[Char Ell]

There was a lot of talk about it over on Obsidian's forums (which I no longer visit), where it was pointed out that it was Lucasarts that pushed the deadline. But no, I can't point to the specific quote. If you ask over there, I'm sure someone can, though.

Hmmm.. I don't think Prime will find your source very credible. I know I don't. You're working off your memory as best you can I'm sure but this kind of controversial topic isn't well served by, "I heard so-and-so say..." Yet you can't provide a verifiable source. People have to take you at your word and that's not likely to occur with a hotly debated subject.

 

I do recall someone from Obsidian saying the situation arose from circumstances beyond their control, or something to that effect, which most took as confirmation that LA had pushed the deadline, and which was never denied.

A LucasArts press release dated May 4, 2004 announced that KotOR:TSL for Xbox and PC would be released in February 2005. As we all know the Xbox version was actually made available for purchase in November of 2004 while the PC version maintained the originally announced February 2005 launch date. So in my mind there is no question that LucasArts pushed up the launch for the Xbox version by 3 months, probably to get the game out in time for the American Christmas holiday season. To me the question is why didn't Obsidian Entertainment tell LucasArts no, they wouldn't be able to finish the game that early? Who knows? I personally feel that if the original timeline had been adhered to then Obsidian would have had more time to polish up TSL so it didn't play so awkwardly towards the end. However I don't think 3 months would have been enough time for Obsidian to include the HK factory or M4-78.

 

Blame who you will but it doesn't change anything.

[Prime]

Hmmm.. I don't think Prime will find your source very credible. I know I don't.

Exactly. Over the years I've learned to ingore message board theories and conjecture.

 

A LucasArts press release dated May 4, 2004 announced that KotOR:TSL for Xbox and PC would be released in February 2005. As we all know the Xbox version was actually made available for purchase in November of 2004 while the PC version maintained the originally announced February 2005 launch date. So in my mind there is no question that LucasArts pushed up the launch for the Xbox version by 3 months, probably to get the game out in time for the American Christmas holiday season.

Interesting. The question is, when did Obsidian know of this change? Was it a change that adversely affected them? We don't know.

 

To me the question is why didn't Obsidian Entertainment tell LucasArts no, they wouldn't be able to finish the game that early?

It is important to realize that as a part of the original agreement to do the game all the timelines and schedules will have been fleshed out at that time and agreed upon. In the vast majority of cases, deadlines are not moved ahead. If they are, the contract has to be revisited and all parties agree to it. Lucasarts could not have "pulled a fast one" and changed the dates without Obsidian knowing about it and agreeing to it.

 

There are several possibilities here:

• Lucasarts could have come to Obsidian and expressed a desire to move the XBox date ahead. Obsidian would then either outright say it isn't possible, or provide options in terms of what the consequences are (reducing content, reduced testing time, etc.) Both sides would have to agree to the change.
  
• Lucasarts could have come to Obsidian and expressed a desire to move the XBox date ahead. Obsidian reorganizes their schedules so that the Xbox requirements are completed first, and the PC requirements are pushed back until later. It is possible that all the required game content is ready by the XBox date anyway. Yes content was cut, but it might not be because of the moved date. Date's can be moved without affecting the content, but other aspects of the overall development are.
  
• Lucasarts had always planned on releasing the XBox first, but announced the original schedule (both at the same time) first and then announced the staggered schedule later one. Obsidian knew the real dates from the getgo. Yes, this happens.
  

In any event, the removed content could have been cut for a variety or reasons that are unrelated to a date change. Story improvements and alterations, for example. According to Obsidian they simply did not estimate accurately how long their vision was going to take to implement. Does anyone know when the dates were changed for the XBox? This makes a big difference. If this happened later on, it would mostly effect testing, shipping, and packaging schedules, not content.

 

Who knows? I personally feel that if the original timeline had been adhered to then Obsidian would have had more time to polish up TSL so it didn't play so awkwardly towards the end.

I would say that probably isn't really the case. The earlier XBox times would likely only effect the product test and post development schedules, not content. There are likely more bugs in TSL as a result, but not necessarily all the removed content is because of that.

 

Really, it all comes down to the usual uninformed fan conjecture. We don't know how decisions were arrived at, but saying that Lucasarts ruined TSL because of moved dates is far too simplistic.

[Jediphile]

Well, in this case you're asking for hard evidence that clearly cannot be made available.

 

Why? Because LA is not going to show their own dirty laundry in public, while Obsidian is not going to either, since they're still hoping to do projects for LA in the future, which is exceedingly unlikely if they accuse them of forcing a new deadline or generally speaking ill of the company in public.

[lukeiamyourdad]

I don't believe the extra time could've added any of the "cut-content". If anything, it would have added an extra layer of polish (if there actually is a layer of polish on TSL) in order to remove all the little cut-off areas, weird bugs, NPC that did nothing (HK-50 that just exploded on Telos). Overall, the experience could've been improved or at least give less ammo to the whiners (no offense to anyone in particular).

[Char Ell]

To me the question is why didn't Obsidian Entertainment tell LucasArts no, they wouldn't be able to finish the game that early?

If I may offer an answer to my own question...

 

One possibility could be that Obsidian was a new game development company at that time and didn't have an established track record of excellence to give them leverage in negotiations with LEC. TSL was it's first big project. Obsidian may not have wanted to "rock the boat" that much by telling it's first big client that they weren't going to do what LEC wanted so they gave in to LEC's wish to push up the Xbox release date.

Lucasarts had always planned on releasing the XBox first, but announced the original schedule (both at the same time) first and then announced the staggered schedule later one. Obsidian knew the real dates from the getgo. Yes, this happens.

Whoa. If this was how things went down then I wouldn't understand why LEC bothered with a press release. I didn't know game publishers will sometimes publicly announce game availability for a later date than when they actually plan to release it. What are some games where this has happened? But it does seem kind of strange that LEC planned to launch the sequel to the highly popular KotOR after the prime (no pun intended ) holiday shopping season.

Really, it all comes down to the usual uninformed fan conjecture. We don't know how decisions were arrived at, but saying that Lucasarts ruined TSL because of moved dates is far too simplistic.

Did my statements leave the impression that I thought LEC ruined TSL by moving up the launch date for Xbox? If so that wasn't my intent. My belief is that the cut content wasn't going to be ready for a February 2005 launch date anyway. IMHO TSL could have used the additional three months for QA. But the game apparently didn't get the QA that it needed. Basically what LIAYD said in post #31. I plan on buying KotOR 3 if and when it comes out so I must not have thought TSL was that bad.

Well, in this case you're asking for hard evidence that clearly cannot be made available.

 

Why? Because LA is not going to show their own dirty laundry in public, while Obsidian is not going to either, since they're still hoping to do projects for LA in the future, which is exceedingly unlikely if they accuse them of forcing a new deadline or generally speaking ill of the company in public.

Precisely. Well said. So does it make sense now why placing the onus on LEC or Obsidian can't be substantiated? We would need inside information in order to make an accurate assessment and as you have stated that kind of information won't be made available to the likes of us. Of course you can hold onto your belief/opinion that TSL's shortcomings are all LEC's fault if you still want to but like I said earlier this really accomplishes nothing.

[TruYuri]

Ok, guys, srsly, im tired of these K3 topics, so im gonna say what im gonna say.

 

It's not that i don't want K3 to happen, but i just have the gut feeling that its NOT going to happen. I'm sure they had a hard time thinking of what Kotor 2 plotline would be, now what the hell is it going to be next? A lost asteroid that must find his way to the holy warzone in which it may become a full planet, known as the planet earth?

[Jediphile]

A full scale invasion of the Republic by the "true Sith"...

 

That's my guess.

[Prime]

Well, in this case you're asking for hard evidence that clearly cannot be made available.

I'm saying there isn't any, so everything is conjecture, unlike what some people would have you believe.

 

Why? Because LA is not going to show their own dirty laundry in public, while Obsidian is not going to either, since they're still hoping to do projects for LA in the future, which is exceedingly unlikely if they accuse them of forcing a new deadline or generally speaking ill of the company in public.

Of course.

 

One possibility could be that Obsidian was a new game development company at that time and didn't have an established track record of excellence to give them leverage in negotiations with LEC. TSL was it's first big project. Obsidian may not have wanted to "rock the boat" that much by telling it's first big client that they weren't going to do what LEC wanted so they gave in to LEC's wish to push up the Xbox release date.

The company was new, but it was run by well known industry veterans. I'm not saying this is impossible, but I find it unlikely for a number of reasons. For one, Lucasarts seems to tend to favor genre heavyweights to do their games these days (Raven, Bioware, etc.). Many of these companies don't necessarily need the contracts, and prefer to do their own thing where they have complete control (e.g. Bioware). It isn't in Lucasarts best interest to bully a subcontractor, since that attitude tends to come back to haunt you, especially when you are trying to get companies that don't really need you in the first place. Secondly, Obsidian has outright said they would love to work with Lucasarts again. So there obviously isn't too much bad blood. Obsidian certain doesn't need Lucasarts with the titles they have coming up. So if they really didn't want to work with them again, they certainly don't need to.

 

Whoa. If this was how things went down then I wouldn't understand why LEC bothered with a press release. I didn't know game publishers will sometimes publicly announce game availability for a later date than when they actually plan to release it. What are some games where this has happened? But it does seem kind of strange that LEC planned to launch the sequel to the highly popular KotOR after the prime (no pun intended ) holiday shopping season.

I know this has happened where I work. It is sometimes done to provide a buffer in case of unfortunate unforeseen events. When things look good according to the original internal sched, then the earlier release date is announced. I'm not saying that that is what happened in this case, but it does happen.

 

Did my statements leave the impression that I thought LEC ruined TSL by moving up the launch date for Xbox? If so that wasn't my intent.

I was more making a general comment, responding to the many people around here and elsewhere who have the "Lucasarts ruins everything" mentality.

[*bAsTiLaJeEdAi*]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

 

If they dont make KOTOR3 I WILL go insane. i remember when after Malachor and you fly off in the Ebon Hawk, I was all happy thinking we were going to find Revan, and then... it ended. I just sat there for a while with my mouth open! It was Soooooooooo inconclusive! They had better make a third one!

[DarkLord152]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

 

If they dont make KOTOR3 I WILL go insane. i remember when after Malachor and you fly off in the Ebon Hawk, I was all happy thinking we were going to find Revan, and then... it ended. I just sat there for a while with my mouth open! It was Soooooooooo inconclusive! They had better make a third one!

I think you're the only person who got what I was trying to say lol....

 

Please say that in english so I can understand it more thanks.

 

I have pruned the off-topic responses to this post.

 

DarkLord152, I don't see where Jediphile's post is not in english? His post is in plain english on my end. -RH

what i mean is what do u mean bout LA and stuff say that so i can understand it more.Basically say it simplar...

[Jabba da Butt]

Kotor 3 will happen. It's only a matter of time. Perhaps I'm just too optimistic, but it seems to me that such a big franchise wouldn't be dropped, when it seemed so obvious at the end of Kotor 2 that there would be a sequal.

 

I'm thinking maybe it will be out by 2007. But I don't care when it comes out. If they take 5 years making it, good! It means it wont be rushed.

 

There is always a possibility that it wont happen. But who cares? If it doesn't, it doesn't? Thats why I hardly ever use this forum. I'm tired of people always freaking out about this stuff. It's a game. I'd like to see it happen, but if it doesn't, my life goes on.

 

I'm sure it will happen though. Just wait patiently.

[FiEND_138]

Probably be mad for a few days, say "meh" & move on with my life.

[DarkLord152]

But agin i dont want them to rush it like they did before on TSL so I think they should take there time dont forget anything.You know what i mean?

[MasterTiPPeR]

i hope it comes kotor2 is the only RPG i play i always liked sw , and that game lokked really cool , the first tiem i played it fully out , i even din't know anything about it , like flurry and power attack never used it i'm now buzzy with my second time and it goes alot better

[XioJade]

 

There MUST be a KOTOR 3

 

Yes, I need to get KOTOR 3 when it comes out.

 

Awesome sig, BTW.

[Shem]

Life goes on if K3 never happens. It won't be the end of the world. That doesn't change that I do want to see K3 come out.

[DarkLord152]

Life goes on if K3 never happens. It won't be the end of the world. That doesn't change that I do want to see K3 come out.

I think it does...lol

[Kommando]

Well, at the very least there is a Knights of the Old Republic comic by Dark Horse for those of us who will take any fix. Maybe it will spur some interest? Wizards of the Coast has released minis featuring characters from KOTOR and I've heard that some action figures may be in the works as well. If enough interest is garnered from the related products, it may help the decision as to whether another game should be made. From what I can see though, Knights of the Old Republic is marketable outside the video game market. That speaks volumes on its own.

[Master Urza]

Im not even gonna bother reading all the posts hear, im just throwing my 2 cents in and reading the ones on the second page

 

Its simple man, KOTOR 3 is like...STARCRAFT 2, or DIABLO 2, or WARCRAFT 4 (Hehhehe, all Blizzard games > . < BURN THE NON-BELIEVER!!!) It would be a financial error on Lucas Industries part to NEVER make the game. It WILL be made due to the fact that it WILL sell when it is made.

 

The only real question about it at this point is WHEN will it be made. There is no IF.

 

This excluding the possiblity aliens dont abduct and kill Lucas...

Or the likley possibility that armegadon occurs within the next 5 years...

Or even the more likley possiblity that Geroge W Bush kills off the entire american nation in some insane mad quest for smaller bagels and a Bin Laden free world

 

Lmfao > . < J/K BOUT THAT LAST ONE, PLEASE DON'T BOMB ME!!

[Prime]

It would be a financial error on Lucas Industries part to NEVER make the game.

Not necessarily.

 

It WILL be made due to the fact that it WILL sell when it is made.

It isn't a question of whether it will sell, it is a question of whether it will make enough money.

[Sir Palamides]

Not necessarily.

 

It isn't a question of whether it will sell, it is a question of whether it will make enough money.

 

It WILL make enough money, like the other kotor games a lot of people ( including me) will buy it ( I hope)

[Prime]

It WILL make enough money, like the other kotor games a lot of people ( including me) will buy it ( I hope)

Sure people will buy it. As for making "enough money," we don't know, because we don't have Lucasarts market research of insight into their financials.

 

Remember, they are a business, so they're goal is to maximize profit. Yes, making KOTOR 3 will make a lot of money. But how much will it cost to make? A lot more than other types of games, by the very nature of RPGs. So how big is the profit margin? Only they know what that might be. Is it worth it? We don't know that either.

 

Then they would look at the alternatives. What else could they spend their money on and what profit would they get from that? Making another type of game might not result in as many units sold, but if it much cheaper to develop, then their overall profits could still be higher. They would then choose to make that game instead at this point in time. For example, I would expect Lego Star Wars to be less expensive to make, but have similar sales, and thus be more profitable.

 

Selling a lot of games is simply not enough.

[Master Urza]

> . < VERY TRUE

No one knows exactly how much a KOTOR 3 will sell.

However...

Lego Star Wars compared to KOTOR? > . <......I dunno about that...Even if Lego Star Wars was less expensive to manufature, i'm going to have to go with KOTOR on the bigger money maker.

And once again to say the KOTOR 3 will NOT be made is...insanity?

 

1. It WILL make money. Period. (Compared to other projects? Im not sure, im just saying that due to how manny people have KOTOR 3 on their wishlist.)

2. Its in high demand? Lots of people want a new KOTOR. Google it KOTOR 3, Knights of the Old Republic 3, Star wars Knights of the Old Republic 3. Its on tons of forums, even IGN has it in their database as a rumored game. Lots of ppl want it

3. Never say never You can't sit there an honostley tell me a KOTOR 3 will !NEVER! be made. Its not probable. Not finicially smart. It just can't NOT happen .

Then again I never thought George W Bush would get re-elected...MY BAD!