Indy Last Crusade guide critiques

[ATMachine]

ThunderPeel, your Last Crusade guide is pretty awesome. But it has a few tiny mistakes in it, so I thought I'd post some feedback on what you might want to correct.

 

A lot of my info comes from the Indy 3 hintbook.

 

You might want to list where the three books are in the library. Here are some directions I made:

 

From the library lobby, go to the bookshelves on the lower left side of the screen. On the lower left area of the bookcase in the middle of a set of thin green books is the biplane manual.

 

Go left into the window room. Then go to the lower left bookshelves again. Mein Kampf is the red book tilted diagonally, sitting in the mostly empty upper right part of the bookcase.

 

Go left into another window room, then to the lower left bookshelves once more. The lower right part of the bookcase has several fat brown books. The rightmost of these is the catacombs map book.

 

Your map of level 3 of the catacombs is missing one dead-end passage. I've altered the image to show you where it is:

 

 

Castle Brunwald:

 

The Nazis each have individual fighting difficulties; it doesn't get harder as you fight more of them (unless you lose health in the process!) Here's how the hint book ranks them, in difficulty from A to E (A is darn hard, E is a pushover):

 

Butler: E

Drunk Nazi: E (though I'd say actually D- since he takes more than one punch)

Guard 2: C

Guard 3: D

Guard 4 (Art): B

Guard 5: A

Guard 6: B

Guard 7: B (though I'd personally rank him an A)

Guard 8 (Security): A

Guard 9: D

Biff: A+ (sober) or E (drunk)

Guard 11: B

 

Talking past Guard 5 nets you 8 points, not 7 as listed.

 

The description of how to get out on the window ledge is slightly wrong, as it places Guard 6 in the wrong room (the rightmost one on the castle map instead of the middle one). You might want to correct that to match the (already correct) diagram.

 

Henry can appear in any of the three rooms which face out onto the third floor window ledge. It's not limited to two (and indeed for me he usually shows up in the room with 75 Marks!)

 

You have to PUSH the paint-by-numbers Mona Lisa, not PULL it.

 

The price of Zeppelin tickets is 175 Marks, not 220.

 

When stealing tickets from the man, the Jones talking to him must be on the right side of the screen and the character stealing the tickets must be on the left.

 

You get 15 IQ points for getting out of the Zeppelin maze without being caught breaking the radio by the radio operator or the Zeppelin turning around.

 

You get zero IQ points, not 10, for reaching the biplane after going through the Zeppelin maze. But you do get 10 points for starting it up from the airport.

 

You get 5 IQ points for every 6 planes you shoot down in the biplane. So it's points for 6, 12, and 18, not 6, 11, and 16.

 

After you shoot down 18 planes (or 9 if you took the Zeppelin) you'll run out of gas and crash. You'll still have Checkpoint 8 to deal with.

 

Roadblocks 1, 2, 4, and 6 can be bribed, not just 2 and 6. Checkpoint guards 1 and 6 each want 150 Marks (not 225) and guards 2 and 4 each want 50 Marks.

 

Any guard will take the signed Mein Kampf, not just 6.

 

Checkpoint guard fighting difficulties from the hintbook:

Guard en route to Berlin: C

Guard 1: A

Guard 2: B

Guard 3: C

Guard 4: A

Guard 5: D

Guard 6: C

Guard 7: B

 

The third Grail trial is not so much a matter of where to click (although you do have to click on the other side, though it's not pixel-perfect) but when. You must cross the chasm as soon as possible. If you dally, then Indy will plummet to his death.

 

The correct Grail in the EGA versions doesn't leave a glowing ring mark. What really happens is that two of the glowing Grail images are improperly erased when Indy picks them up in the 16-color version, leaving behind part of the glow.

 

Your Fighting Tips section omits the fact that the keyset reverses itself (i.e. numpad 9 switches to numpad 7, numpad 6 switches to numpad 4, numpad 3 switches to numpad 1, and vice versa) when Indy is standing on the right side of the screen during a fight.

 

 

I did manage to get all 800 points! Funnily enough, the hardest part wasn't the fighting, but the biplane. I used Virtual PC to save and load the game state during that sequence (since you can't normally save during it).

 

I think the highest Episode score you can get is 505. Here's how...

 

-Use Cunning Plan 3 to get past the students (both ways)

-Talk past the Butler

-Give the painting to Guard 4 and get the inner vault open

-Give Mein Kampf to Guard 8 and disable the alarm system

-Get out on the window ledge and enter Henry's room that way

-Talk past all the other guards in Castle Brunwald, then knock them all out EXCEPT for Guard 2. It's damn hard!

-You need Guard 2 alive for maximum points

-Unlock Henry's door

-Get captured by Guard 2

-Give Vogel the real Grail Diary

-Talk past the checkpoint guard on the road to Berlin

-Get Hitler to sign the travel pass

-Steal the tickets at the airport

-Start the biplane

-Get shot down by the first plane that attacks you

-Talk past all the checkpoint guards except 2 and 6

-Bribe guards 2 and 6 (you should have enough money if you knocked out all the Brunwald guards)

-Pick up the Grail before Elsa gets it and give it to the Knight

[Thrik]

ATMachine returns!! :D

[clone2727]

 

I did manage to get all 800 points! Funnily enough, the hardest part wasn't the fighting, but the biplane. I used Virtual PC to save and load the game state during that sequence (since you can't normally save during it).

 

I think the highest Episode score you can get is 505. Here's how...

 

-Use Cunning Plan 3 to get past the students (both ways)

-Talk past the Butler

-Give the painting to Guard 4 and get the inner vault open

-Give Mein Kampf to Guard 8 and disable the alarm system

-Get out on the window ledge and enter Henry's room that way

-Talk past all the other guards in Castle Brunwald, then knock them all out EXCEPT for Guard 2. It's damn hard!

-You need Guard 2 alive for maximum points

-Unlock Henry's door

-Get captured by Guard 2

-Give Vogel the real Grail Diary

-Talk past the checkpoint guard on the road to Berlin

-Get Hitler to sign the travel pass

-Steal the tickets at the airport

-Start the biplane

-Get shot down by the first plane that attacks you

-Talk past all the checkpoint guards except 2 and 6

-Bribe guards 2 and 6 (you should have enough money if you knocked out all the Brunwald guards)

-Pick up the Grail before Elsa gets it and give it to the Knight

 

Congrats. I usually get 350 points when playing.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Brilliant stuff, ATM! Thanks so much for taking the time to put it all together, it's much appreciated!!

 

I've been half-heartedly redesigning the website in my spare time with a mind to get around to updating it. You've taken a lot of the chore out of it, it's really much appreciated! Maybe I'll actually get off my lazy ass and get around to updating it!

 

I even have exclusive interviews with Noah Falstein, David Fox and Hal Barwood (although I seem to have lost Hal's one - whoops!) which I've never posted. I even bought the official game guide after I'd finished the site, but never got around to cross-referencing what I'd already done. (I'm bad aren't I?)

 

Thanks again, ATM! If I ever get around to including all that excellent stuff I'll make sure you get a big credit!

[CaliMonk]

Nice guide, loved this game.

 

However, you didn't rate the Balloon guy

 

I Spend almost a week (fighting) beating him because i didn't know about the tickets Loved the comment of Henry after that.

 

He is a definite A+!

 

CaliMonk

[adalsgaard]

ThunderPeel, your Last Crusade guide is pretty awesome. But it has a few tiny mistakes in it, so I thought I'd post some feedback on what you might want to correct.

 

A lot of my info comes from the Indy 3 hintbook.

 

You might want to list where the three books are in the library. Here are some directions I made:

 

From the library lobby, go to the bookshelves on the lower left side of the screen. On the lower left area of the bookcase in the middle of a set of thin green books is the biplane manual.

 

Go left into the window room. Then go to the lower left bookshelves again. Mein Kampf is the red book tilted diagonally, sitting in the mostly empty upper right part of the bookcase.

 

Go left into another window room, then to the lower left bookshelves once more. The lower right part of the bookcase has several fat brown books. The rightmost of these is the catacombs map book.

 

Your map of level 3 of the catacombs is missing one dead-end passage. I've altered the image to show you where it is:

 

 

Castle Brunwald:

 

The Nazis each have individual fighting difficulties; it doesn't get harder as you fight more of them (unless you lose health in the process!) Here's how the hint book ranks them, in difficulty from A to E (A is darn hard, E is a pushover):

 

Butler: E

Drunk Nazi: E (though I'd say actually D- since he takes more than one punch)

Guard 2: C

Guard 3: D

Guard 4 (Art): B

Guard 5: A

Guard 6: B

Guard 7: B (though I'd personally rank him an A)

Guard 8 (Security): A

Guard 9: D

Biff: A+ (sober) or E (drunk)

Guard 11: B

 

Talking past Guard 5 nets you 8 points, not 7 as listed.

 

The description of how to get out on the window ledge is slightly wrong, as it places Guard 6 in the wrong room (the rightmost one on the castle map instead of the middle one). You might want to correct that to match the (already correct) diagram.

 

Henry can appear in any of the three rooms which face out onto the third floor window ledge. It's not limited to two (and indeed for me he usually shows up in the room with 75 Marks!)

 

You have to PUSH the paint-by-numbers Mona Lisa, not PULL it.

 

The price of Zeppelin tickets is 175 Marks, not 220.

 

When stealing tickets from the man, the Jones talking to him must be on the right side of the screen and the character stealing the tickets must be on the left.

 

You get 15 IQ points for getting out of the Zeppelin maze without being caught breaking the radio by the radio operator or the Zeppelin turning around.

 

You get zero IQ points, not 10, for reaching the biplane after going through the Zeppelin maze. But you do get 10 points for starting it up from the airport.

 

You get 5 IQ points for every 6 planes you shoot down in the biplane. So it's points for 6, 12, and 18, not 6, 11, and 16.

 

After you shoot down 18 planes (or 9 if you took the Zeppelin) you'll run out of gas and crash. You'll still have Checkpoint 8 to deal with.

 

Roadblocks 1, 2, 4, and 6 can be bribed, not just 2 and 6. Checkpoint guards 1 and 6 each want 150 Marks (not 225) and guards 2 and 4 each want 50 Marks.

 

Any guard will take the signed Mein Kampf, not just 6.

 

Checkpoint guard fighting difficulties from the hintbook:

Guard en route to Berlin: C

Guard 1: A

Guard 2: B

Guard 3: C

Guard 4: A

Guard 5: D

Guard 6: C

Guard 7: B

 

The third Grail trial is not so much a matter of where to click (although you do have to click on the other side, though it's not pixel-perfect) but when. You must cross the chasm as soon as possible. If you dally, then Indy will plummet to his death.

 

The correct Grail in the EGA versions doesn't leave a glowing ring mark. What really happens is that two of the glowing Grail images are improperly erased when Indy picks them up in the 16-color version, leaving behind part of the glow.

 

Your Fighting Tips section omits the fact that the keyset reverses itself (i.e. numpad 9 switches to numpad 7, numpad 6 switches to numpad 4, numpad 3 switches to numpad 1, and vice versa) when Indy is standing on the right side of the screen during a fight.

 

 

I did manage to get all 800 points! Funnily enough, the hardest part wasn't the fighting, but the biplane. I used Virtual PC to save and load the game state during that sequence (since you can't normally save during it).

 

I think the highest Episode score you can get is 505. Here's how...

 

-Use Cunning Plan 3 to get past the students (both ways)

-Talk past the Butler

-Give the painting to Guard 4 and get the inner vault open

-Give Mein Kampf to Guard 8 and disable the alarm system

-Get out on the window ledge and enter Henry's room that way

-Talk past all the other guards in Castle Brunwald, then knock them all out EXCEPT for Guard 2. It's damn hard!

-You need Guard 2 alive for maximum points

-Unlock Henry's door

-Get captured by Guard 2

-Give Vogel the real Grail Diary

-Talk past the checkpoint guard on the road to Berlin

-Get Hitler to sign the travel pass

-Steal the tickets at the airport

-Start the biplane

-Get shot down by the first plane that attacks you

-Talk past all the checkpoint guards except 2 and 6

-Bribe guards 2 and 6 (you should have enough money if you knocked out all the Brunwald guards)

-Pick up the Grail before Elsa gets it and give it to the Knight

 

I've done 506 points... Maybe you didn't both get the stein from the drunk guard by asking (2 IQ points), hand it back to him and then fight him to get the stein back (1 IQ point)?

 

Corrections: The guide doesn't mention the 25 Marks that guard 11 is carrying (nor text or table). You'll only get to checkpoint 7 by plane if you shoot all 18 planes (all 9 planes if you escaped the Zeppelin).

 

Anyone who has the official Hint Book:

I'm (re)playing this great game on the Amiga platform (simulated environment).

Now... Apparently something's wrong with the IQ points counter (in any version of the game, I tried so far).

 

Presumed errors:

 

1. Error: The game gives you 15 IQ points for fighting (and beating) the guard in the alarm room (Castle Brunwald) but doesn't consider the puzzle solved any different than giving the guard Mein Kampf. Meaning: If you gave already solved the puzzle by giving the guard Mein Kampf, nothing will happen to your IQ series score fighting the guard (supposed to worth 10 (unique) IQ points).

 

2. Error: When escaping Castle Brunwald, the game gives you 25 IQ points for the escape, REGARDLESS of the circumstances (supposed to get 25 IQ points for escaping ONLY if you escape the castle without getting tied up).

 

The questions are:

1) Does the Hint Book specifically state, that figthing (and beating) the guard in the alarm room is worth 10 IQ points?

 

2) As I strongly suspect that the IQ points are the same regardless of the versions (Amiga, PC etc.), does anyone know of a Amiga version of the game where the IQ points counter is not "corrupt"?

[ThunderPeel2001]

Hi there, sorry for not replying to this sooner. I did a lot of my research on the Amiga version (on an actual Amiga - it's the only version I had when I started the guide)... Are you running it through WinUAE or ScummVM? You're probably aware that the IQ points system is odd as the file is only written to on saving or loading.

 

Although I later bought the hint book and did notice some differences (which I thought might be mistakes in the book, although I never double checked :/ ), I now can't find it I'm not sure if the game is supposed to give you unique IQ points for your first presumed error, although it would certainly make sense. The guide, as you say, would probably help here

 

Again, for error #2 this may not be a mistake... you may have gone into further detail than anyone else ever has?

 

From ATM's screenshot it would seem to me that there should be a "Perfect!" episode score... that might help us understand if there's bugs anywhere if someone found out what it's supposed to be.

 

Are you having difficulty getting all 800 points on the Amiga version? (Can't remember if I ever managed it myself.)

 

Why not pick up the PC version from Steam (http://store.steampowered.com/app/32310/). It's only £2.99/$4.99 and isn't run in any sort of emulated environment (which might actually cause weird errors), and see if these same issues exist? I would be interested to hear what you discover!

[SyntheticGerbil]

Haha, I can't help here, but I wish you guys luck on figuring this out so that I can use the updated knowledge to one day get both perfect episode and series scores.

 

I'm a sucker for the points thing in adventure games.

[ThunderPeel2001]

I had a quite look at the game in ScummRev and it seems my idea of a "Perfect" Episode score was wishful thinking. It seems "Superb" is the highest the game recognizes for Episode scores, sadly.

[adalsgaard]

I'm running the game through WinUAE. Like SyntheticGerbil I'm very persistent when it comes to REALLY completing games, getting all the points etc.

Regarding the ScummRev review I can add that getting 506 IQ points (Episode, of course) also was rated as "Superb", so your information seems right.

 

I still believe that something must have gone wrong with the Amiga conversion of the game. I mean: Why would LucasArts make an adventure game which differs in only 2 "IQ puzzles" playing the PC and Amiga versions respectively? And why are these differences (presumably) not mentioned in the official Hint Book?

 

Another reason for believing that the Amiga version is "corrupt" is the fact that the missing 10 points from the alarm room makes it impossible to get all 800 IQ Series Points! If it's not a mistake, then there's one or more "IQ puzzles" in the Amiga version (giving you the last 10 IQ points) that I never heard of. That, of course, is a possibility but I doubt it...

 

The last reason for believing the Amiga version is to blame is the fact, that I played the PC version and did in fact get all 800 IQ Series Points (shooting 18 planes in a row is a b....!). The fighting sequence in the alarm room gave me 10 IQ Points and I only got 25 IQ points from escaping Castle Brunwald without getting tied up. So, apparently nothing seems to be wrong with the PC version.

 

The official Hint Book is the key to end the speculations: I hope it has EVERY detail of all the IQ points. If anyone has the official Hint Book, please let us all know what it says about the mentioned IQ puzzles and whether it says something about differences between the Amiga and PC version.

 

By the way... If the Amiga version is NOT corrupt:

1) The game will be up for further exploring, hunting down the 10 missing IQ points.

2) It'll be possible to do an episode score of 531 IQ points (506+25).

Exciting stuff for persistent (Amiga) adventure gamers!

 

If the Amiga version IS corrupt, I would love if someone would correct the code. Apparently, it's seems to be "just" a corrupt points counter, so it would seem possible to someone with the right skills...

[SyntheticGerbil]

I wouldn't doubt a corrupt point system being possible.

 

I recall Space Quest 4's CD version made it impossible to get 3 points that were possible on the floppy disk version, leaving you unable to ever to get a perfect score. Someone has made an ultimate patch for that game, but I have yet to complete it to see if it works now.

 

Man, I've been really meaning to complete this game again. I want to use the FM-Towns version since I've never completed that version, but I think Thunderpeel has said a few times that the FM-Towns version doesn't give out the correct score if at all sometimes. That sucks, since I've played my 256 color floppy version to death already (But not carefully enough to max out my score yet).

[ATMachine]

Yeah the Amiga version must be corrupt. I have the Hint Book and it confirms that the 25 points for escaping Castle Brunwald are awarded ONLY for doing it without being captured.

[adalsgaard]

Hi ATMachine.

 

Thanks for the info regarding the Castle Brunwald escape. Can you also confirm that fighting (and beating) the guard in the alarm room is worth 10 IQ points, according to the Hint Book?

 

Maybe I should write LucasArts, telling them that after 20 years of playing Last Crusade I've come up 10 IQ points short and I expect to receive either a corrected Amiga version or a refund ;-).

 

Does anyone have a clue how difficult it would be to correct the IQ points counter (Amiga version)?

[SyntheticGerbil]

Maybe I should write LucasArts, telling them that after 20 years of playing Last Crusade I've come up 10 IQ points short and I expect to receive either a corrected Amiga version or a refund ;-)

 

Hahaha, I think you should try this anyway and post their reply for us here. It'll be a good laugh, I'm sure.

[adalsgaard]

The corrupt points counter makes it possible to get 531 IQ points in one episode playing the Amiga version. I just did it. It's aprobably a World Record , but I would gladly give it up in exchange of a 100% working Amiga version.

 

Again: Does anyone have a clue how difficult it would be to correct the IQ points counter?

[ThunderPeel2001]

Wow, I can't believe it's actually properly broken! (Maybe that's why I never got 800 points on the Amiga... :0/ )

 

Try pressing CTRL-V and seeing what version you're using.

 

Also, could this be a bug in WinUAE?

[adalsgaard]

Hi ThunderPeel2001.

 

The version is 1.4 (10/04/89). I don't know how conclude if the corruption is caused by WinUAE. The version I'm using is 1.5.0. I belive 1.6.1 is the newest version.

 

Do you know a way to correct the points counter?

 

Correction for the guide:

ALL roadblock guards can be bribed (it not an Amiga "bug" since I tested it playing the PC version): Roadblocks 3, 5 and 7 seem impossible to bribe, but they're not. Initially, when you offer them money, they respond "You dare to bribe me?" and any dialogue choice after that will start a fight. Instead, "reply" by "offer an item" again, select the money and then 50 marks. No sweat.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Wow, nicely spotted. Thanks!

[blueskirt]

Nice finds!

[adalsgaard]

More info on versions:

 

I've now tried the Italian version (hard language!). It's version 1.5 (29.12.89). The problem is exactly the same. Aaarrrggghhh!

 

At least I learned what "sistema di sicurezza" means...

[ThunderPeel2001]

I had a thought about this over the weekend: Is your version cracked? If so, could it be the crack interfering? It's unlikely, I guess, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

 

Also: What are highest scores you can get on the Amiga version, then?

[adalsgaard]

The versions, I've played are not cracked. You must enter the correct code at the beginning of the game (both English and Italian).

 

Since the Amiga version gives you 25 IQ points for escaping Castle Brunwald regardless of the circumstances, it's possible to get 531 IQ points in one epsiode... BUT... the malfunction regarding the fight in the alarm room makes 790 the highest possible Series score! The game gives you 15 IQ points for beating the guard, but if you already solved the puzzle by giving him Mein Kampf, it does nothing to your Series score.

 

Frustrating stuff!

 

I need someone with coding skills to correct the errors (if it's possible to do so).

[ThunderPeel2001]

I would consider that possibility highly unlikely, but you might try ScummVM's forums.

[adalsgaard]

OK... I've started a thread on the subject here:

 

http://forums.scummvm.org/viewtopic.php?t=8018

[ThunderPeel2001]

Actually, if you're hoping some Amiga buff will fix the code for you, you might possibly also try the Scumm Hacking forum here and also the English Amiga Board... It's all very slight that you'll meet someone who could fix this for you, but you'll never know if you don't ask, I guess