Jehovah's Witnesses

[Q]

Actually' date=' from their point of view, they are the [i']only[/i] Christians.

A Christian that denies Christ's deity is a contradiction in terms. Plain and simple. That's why I fail to understand why they identify themselves as such.

Which is why they are detested so venomously.

Not by me. I've repeatedly been able to argue every single one that I've talked to into the ground on the very point that I mentioned above, easily and politely. Needless to say: they avoid my house like the plague.

I find them intriguing to talk to. I still have trouble with some of the ideals' date=' but, it all falls on one's interpretation of the bible.[/quote']

Same here.

Unfortunately' date=' there is no perfect version of this [i']book[/i] to base any deviations on. Man wrote this book and man is imperfect. Therefore, the bible is imperfect. No questions on that logic.

Over the centuries, I'm quite sure variations were created and beefed up to suit the clergy of the time.

I'm beginning to accept the likelyhood of this more and more. It was difficult for me at first considering my up-bringing, but the evidence is definitely there.

It still all comes down to what you believe.

Actually, it comes down to the truth. As to what that truth is, I sincerely doubt that anyone in history was 100% certain, and I don't believe that anyone is now.

Violence' date=' repugnance and offensive treatment of your fellow man is just a showcase for your own personality.[/quote']

I couln't agree with you more.

It's not who you are underneath' date=' but what you [i']do[/i] that defines you.

Actually, I believe that it's a little bit of both.

If you slam doors in their face' date=' swear or spit at them, it is just a reflection of your own personality or lack thereof.[/quote']

I would never practice or advocate behavior like that. Aside from being just plain wrong, it's counter-productive.

[Achilles]

re: The Bible - to my mind, it adds veracity. In the four gospels, there are a variety of reasons that timelines contradict that I can see - simple muddling of recollection, or, in very rare and specific situations, such as the order of events leading up to the crucifixion, to take but a few.

That is your take and that is fine. What about those that believe that the Bible is the unerring word of God?

 

To my mind, it puts the Bible exactly where it belongs: Amongst all the fictional religious texts that came before it.

 

It should also always be taken into account when dealing with Biblical passages, or indeed any historical source, is the context, both within the larger passage, and the wider cultural context.

Please don't mistake me. Personally, I absolutely agree. I also think it's evidence that no one should take it seriously.

 

What you have done with the Old Testament passages is to pick out different soundbites, from different times and different books. You take them with modern eyes, and don't look at what is being said in the context of the time.

What I have done is show that there are contradictions in the Bible. If the Bible is the unerring word of the perfect God, then there shouldn't be any contradictions. If the Bible is a fictional text written by various storytellers over several centuries, then contradictions make sense and should be expected...just like they are in every other tome of its ilk that have been summarily dismissed as "mythology" by scholars.

 

The Bible is the Word of God for Christians, yes, but that Word has been written down by human hands, and human minds are coloured by their times and places. You didn't take this into account as far as I could see, and I would imagine, 'though I cannot speak for any others here, that that would be the reason for this.

I've made every attempt to address my audience (devout Christians). I think you've cherry-picked my arguments in an attempt to make it look as though I'm ignorant to history. It seems to be your argument would be best directed at those that still take their guidance from a book that was written 1800+ years ago.

 

OT: Yes, I've just been too lazy to respond

Take your time. Surely you'll bring your A-game once you're rested.

[JasraLantill]

I’ve really been enjoying reading the debate going on between all of the different parties involved in this thread. Don’t really want to get too involved in it (mostly because I'd feel so out of my league due to my lack of familiarity of the Bible), but please carry on! I’m learning a lot from all sides.

 

Science gives us progress because it's never satisfied; it constantly asks "why?". Religion doesn't do this.

Actually, Achilles, there is one world religion actually encourages people to ask ‘why’ all the time. Haven’t really seen it mentioned in this thread, but thought you might find the folllowing quote of interest. I have it hanging in the hallway by my front door.

 

"Do not believe something just because it has been passed along and retold for many generations. [simpler: Do not be led by what you are told.]

 

"Do not believe something merely because it has become a traditional practice. [Do not be led by whatever has been handed down from past generations.]

 

"Do not believe something simply because it is well-known everywhere. [Do not be led by hearsay or common opinion.]

 

"Do not believe something just because it is cited in a text. [Do not be led by something just because it is written in a religious book.]

 

"Do not believe something merely because it accords with your philosophy. [Do not be led by mere deduction or inference.]

 

"Do not believe something because it appeals to "common sense". [Do not be led by considering only outward appearance.]

 

"Do not believe something just because you like the idea. [Do not be led by preconceived notions (and the theory reflected as an approval.)]

 

"Do not believe something because the speaker seems trustworthy. [Do not be led by what seems acceptable by what some believable person says.]

 

"Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. [Do not be led by what your teacher tells you is so.]

 

"But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.”

 

--Gautama Buddha, taken from the Kesaputti Sutta, 5th sutta (sutra) in the Book of Threes (Mahavagga) in the Gradual Sayings (Tika Nipata).

 

Needless to say, the JW's don't pay many visits to my house.

[Achilles]

Actually, Achilles, there is one world religion actually encourages people to ask ‘why’ all the time. Haven’t really seen it mentioned in this thread, but thought you might find the folllowing quote of interest.

Gah! Clearly, I'm not being as careful with my use of language as I thought I had been. You win.

 

In my defense, I do not consider Buddhism (or any other non-theistic, non-dogmatic belief systems) to be "religion", but I wasn't very clear on that, now was I? I will try to be more careful from now on.

 

Thanks!

[JasraLantill]

Aw, no problem, Achilles. You're forgiven.

[Negative Sun]

I’ve really been enjoying reading the debate going on between all of the different parties involved in this thread. Don’t really want to get too involved in it (mostly because I'd feel so out of my league due to my lack of familiarity of the Bible), but please carry on! I’m learning a lot from all sides.

 

Actually, Achilles, there is one world religion actually encourages people to ask ‘why’ all the time. ~snipped for brevity~

 

--Gautama Buddha, taken from the Kesaputti Sutta, 5th sutta (sutra) in the Book of Threes (Mahavagga) in the Gradual Sayings (Tika Nipata).

Buddha rules, it's sad that some Eastern cultures aren't that well known around here...