Documentary shows possible Jesus tomb

[Rabish Bini]

@SkykoRevan: How do you know that Jesus ascended into Heaven with his body? I've read it too, but it may have been misinterpreted. Think about it, the Bible was writen by many people, mainly Jesus' apostles, and it was written over a millenia ago. Information could've been lost as it went through more and more interpretations in different languages, or it could've been misinterpreted as it changed languages.

 

As for the tomb, I doubt it's authenticity, a person tried to pull off something like this a couple of years ago and he got slapped with a fine.

[SykoRevan]

@SkykoRevan: How do you know that Jesus ascended into Heaven with his body? I've read it too, but it may have been misinterpreted. Think about it, the Bible was writen by many people, mainly Jesus' apostles, and it was written over a millenia ago. Information could've been lost as it went through more and more interpretations in different languages, or it could've been misinterpreted as it changed languages.

 

As for the tomb, I doubt it's authenticity, a person tried to pull off something like this a couple of years ago and he got slapped with a fine.

 

If one major part of Jesus's story was misinterpreted, then how do we know the whole thing's not just "misinterpreted?" Small things can be misinterpreted and overlooked, but I doubt that would happen when a guy's body starts floating up into the sky. The Ascension was too major in Jesus's story, and along with his Resurrection, was an event that supposedly proved to all his followers that he was the son of God. To say that the Ascension was a misinterpretation is to call the Bible inaccurate. How many Chrsitans would agree to that, I wonder?

 

And just because someone else tried to do the same thing a couple of years ago, we should not rule out the possibility of the tomb's authenticity.

[Rabish Bini]

^True, and i'm not ruling out the tomb's authenticity, i'm just saying people have pulled hoaxes like this before, and none of them were true.

[Jae Onasi]

When I first heard of the tomb, I literally jumped for joy. If this is proven true, then it would completely mess with religion.

 

Why would that bring you such joy? I would not take joy in something that would 'completely mess with atheism' because of the difficulties many atheists would then face giving up cherished (non-)beliefs. If something did come along that definitively disproved God, I would hope that atheists would show theists some measure of compassion as they worked through the massive paradigm shift in their lives.

 

The stories I'm hearing on WGN radio news this am indicated that religious and non-religious scholars alike have said there's no way to prove that it's Jesus' ossuary, and likely is not. Discovery apparently has decided not to re-air the story (which is too bad, because I'd like to see the artifacts and I missed the show)--I haven't had a chance to link an article on that and just heard it on the radio, so take that fwiw.

[stingerhs]

i, for one, did see the documentary, and i was far from impressed. there was a lot of fact twisting in order for the message to come out the way it did.

 

there are several problems with the documentary itself that i found rather disturbing. first, there was no mention that the official documentation of the discovery by Amos Kloner found nothing remarkable about the discovery. Kloner is quoted in the Newsweek article about his opinion on the matter:

To this day, Kloner says the burial cave is not extraordinary. "It's a typical Jewish burial cave of a large size," he says. "The names on the ossuaries are very common names or derivatives of names." The echo of the names of the members of the Holy Family, he says, "is just a coincidence."

something else that Kloner pointed out was that the tomb was typical to middle to upper class families. he was then quoted saying:

"Joseph, Mary, and their son Jesus were a poor family from Nazareth. There is no proof they even lived in Jerusalem," he said.

Stephen Pfann, who was interviewed for the documentary and is a Biblical Scholar at the University of the Holy Land in Jerusalem, has stated that:

Pfann is even unsure that the name "Jesus" on the caskets was read correctly. He thinks it's more likely the name "Hanun." Ancient Semitic script is notoriously difficult to decipher.

 

in the documentary, they pointed out that the odds were "600:1" that all of those names on the ossuaries would occur in the same tomb. according to Pfann and Kloner:

But Pfann and Kloner both said it is not surprising to find a tomb containing this combination of Jewish names, which are among the most common of that period.

 

"The pool of names that was available during the 1st century A.D. in this country was very limited," Pfann said. He said scholars have also found inscriptions reading "Jesus, son of Joseph" in other tombs.

 

if you want my opinion on the matter: Simcha Jacobovici, the director of the documentary, came up with an idea and then twisted the facts around in order to present it as fact with the intention of making a lot of money off of the controversy.

[SilentScope001]

What I really want to see:

 

A doctumentary showing the life of this middle-class family who is not Jesus, the holy man, but Haunun, a rich, middle-class Jew who is torn between supporting the Zealost terrorists and helping the Romans. A historical documentary about this great terror event in 70 AD would bring in a lot of money and inform people much more. Jesus may not be considered historical fact by some, but the Zealot rebellion, in which Jews tried to overthrow the Romans and take over Palestine/Israel is a documented historical fact.

[Achilles]

That's not entirely true, offhand I know for a fact that Irenaeus of Lyons (d. 202) associates them with their "traditional authors" in Against Heresies which was written in the 170's. That doesn't mean that has to have been right of course, but it demonstrates that there was a widely held tradition at that time, of who wrote them. I know of no other ancient writers who ascribed them to others.

Irenaeus is exactly who I was referencing, however it appears that I had the wrong date. Thanks for clarifying that and for the correction.

 

If something did come along that definitively disproved God, I would hope that atheists would show theists some measure of compassion as they worked through the massive paradigm shift in their lives.

Most atheists are former theists. Some are still very angry, but I imagine that most would be able to empathize. Mostly I think the sentiment would be something like, "cool, now check this out!"

 

It's a gross analogy, but think of the movie The Matrix. Neo's discovery of the truth is very difficult for him at first, but freeing his mind has some pretty nifty advantages that he has some good times with later. It's pretty much exactly like that.

 

Discovery apparently has decided not to re-air the story (which is too bad, because I'd like to see the artifacts and I missed the show)--I haven't had a chance to link an article on that and just heard it on the radio, so take that fwiw.

The Discovery site has a DVD up for sale (surprise). Also there are clips available on YouTube. Unfortunately no sequence is offered so Youtube viewing is difficult to follow at best. From what I did see though, you aren't missing much.

 

i, for one, did see the documentary, and i was far from impressed. there was a lot of fact twisting in order for the message to come out the way it did.

That's the impression that I walked away with as well.

[SilentScope001]

It's a gross analogy, but think of the movie The Matrix. Neo's discovery of the truth is very difficult for him at first, but freeing his mind has some pretty nifty advantages that he has some good times with later. It's pretty much exactly like that.

 

But take up Plato's Anology of the Cave. Suppose a person is freed from his cave and finally sees the truth, (aka the outside world).

 

What if that isn't the truth? What if he merely left his cave into entering the Outside World, but that isn't really true. The cave is false, but so is this new outside world.

 

What if Neo is freed from the Matrix, but he then realizes that in the "real world", he's actually in another Matrix? What if the Machine wanted to do a simulation on what would happen if they built the Matrix, so they created a program that generates humans and see what they believe. So, Neo is a computer-generated thing who is trapped within a Matrix to receive dreams. When he wakes up from the dreams and the Matrix, he is hereby "free" and adjusts to this brave new world. And yet, he still gets a feeling something is wrong: And then finds out that he is in a computer simulation on seeing what would humans do when they react to The Matrix, examining their rebellious attidues.

 

And what about the Machines who built the Computer Simulation? What if they too are trapped in a Matrix? And what if the people who run that Matrix are also trapped within yet another Matrix?

 

What I really want to say is: Have we really freed our minds?

[SykoRevan]

Why would that bring you such joy?

 

Personal reasons, including my own experiences with religious people everywhere I have been, have shown me that while the underlying concepts of all religions have good intentions such as loving fellow man, those intentions are undermined by the more important focus on the religious figure's power or staus (ex: Jesus as the Son of God) instead of the message they bring, as well as the fact that many have used religion for their own ends and even brainwashed people. An ever-famous example of this is of course Adolf Hitler, who not only appealed to Christians, but attacked another religious group so strongly that his followers considered them a separate race altogether. The truth is, so many people have used religion as either a tool or an excuse for their own actions. But I may be going too far into my own answer. Personally, I feel a sense of self-pride (and this sounds selfish and mean, I know, but at least I am being honest) that if this whole thing is proven true, then I will have proven myself correct over all the ignorant clergy who have bashed, harassed, and called me a "foolish young devil-worshipper who denies the power of your almighty Lord and savior Jesus Christ." (I still love the fact that the clergy call Atheists "devil worshippers" when my kind don't believe in Heaven OR Hell. It makes me giggle sometimes)

 

But I know that not all religious people are like this, and I do have good friends who are Christian, Catholic, and other denominations, and as for what you said about showing compassion Jae, I will of course talk to my friends about what they feel and if they need help with dealing with it, I will of course give my opinion and give advice. But this does not mean that I won't feel some personal happiness at seeing a certain religion possibly disappear. I have been noted by some to be borderline Antitheist after all.