TheShaman Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 This concerns force powers, to make it more balanced, I had this idea: Making a force resistance level, and a push power level. Resistance : -Movement Run: 0 Walk: 1 still: 2 -Mishap MP = 0: 4 0<MP<=5: 3 5<MP<=10: 2 10<MP<=15: 1 -Absorb level Instead of making abosrb THE way to resist force powers, it should CONTRIBUTE to it. I've been playing holocron recently, and I totally owned all the bots with lightning and pull, except the one who had absorb. With this new knockdown system, you could resist to force without absorb if you are very careful (no running + shooting a lot), but you can still get a better resistance by choosing the power. 1,2,3 more resistance points for level 1,2,3. It fits perfectly the 1,4,9 power (max resistance is 9). You make the sum of the 3 previous things (movement and mishap). Resistance goes from 1 to 9. Push power: 1,4,9, respectively level 1,2,3 (^2) Test would be: if (push_power > resistance) knockdown; else increase_mishap; (MP_increase = int((9 - resistance + enemy_power)/2)) Exemple: I have 30% of mishap, I am walking, I got 3 resistance, an enemy pushes me with level 2 (power 3), I resist knockdown and gain 10% of mishap, I now have 40%, which doesnt change anything, but suddenly very scared, I release the walk button, I'm not running. My resistance is now 2 only ! My opponent pushes me again with his level 2 (power 3), and Oh no I fall down! and now...ARGH. Recap table (knockdown yes/no): . 1 4 9 Push 1 n y y 2 n y y 3 n y y 4 n n y 5 n n y 6 n n y 7 n n y 8 n n y 9 n n n Res Tell me what you think of it. It could solve the overpower of force versus gunner, but it won't overpower gunners because if they run around or shoot too much they will have less resistance and be vulnerable. This could apply to the knockdown of push, pull, and lightning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxstate Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 This would be a fine addition to our system, albeit it might be a bit complex to deal with. I would like to see it in there but Ace is giving the final decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShaman Posted April 19, 2007 Author Share Posted April 19, 2007 Yea the problem is : I have no idea how hard it is to do something like that, doing this in a little standalone program without a game behind wouldn't be hard, but in the game code itself, I don't know, so if it is too hard to add in, too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orj Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 Sounds quite interesting. Logically very simple, but I don't know about the code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 It's an good idea but shouldn't there be some level of resistance granted by having relivent Force Powers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjusterbaarlik Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 It's an good idea but shouldn't there be some level of resistance granted by having relivent Force Powers? And shouldn't there be some level of vulnerability when holding a heavy weapon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 Well, if we want there be to be a point system vs a blanket no-d-while-heavy-weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 I'm still trying to wrap my brain around this, but it does sound like a good idea. It just could get really complex for normal players to keep track of...but that might be the draw of it since it adds more of a skill movement combo RPG like thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShaman Posted April 20, 2007 Author Share Posted April 20, 2007 OK I've adapted the system to absorb now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShaman Posted April 23, 2007 Author Share Posted April 23, 2007 Check my first post again, I've now included absorb level in the force resistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxstate Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 I'll come back to say that it MIGHT be a bit complicated to get into, and it might be a bit too restricting for gunners.. but with the aiming mode we had planned together with the current settings for guns increasing mishap I think it would be a fine addition that would take some getting used too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShaman Posted April 23, 2007 Author Share Posted April 23, 2007 I see, but wouldn't it be in conflict with the aiming mode? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 It sounds pretty good. My concern is the MP increase from blocking the attack. There's a limited range of MP that players can have (0-15) and if Force power blocking always increases this amount when blocked, I'm worried that the Force powers can just always be spamed. Maybe if the amount of MP increase be based on the level of resistance vs the level of attack? Also, should having the same type of power (lightning skill vs lightning skill) apply to your resistance level? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShaman Posted April 23, 2007 Author Share Posted April 23, 2007 Well I've thought about the MP increase because otherwise, a gunner with no MP, full absorb, and standing still would be totally imune to knockdown, which makes my idea overpowered. This prevents it. And by the way, being pushed away could cause some balance problem (which makes you fall if you are not careful), which increases your MP. Basing the MP increase directly on the level of resistance vs level of attack would be pointless since this MP increase is supposed to prevent people from being imune to force. But if you do something so that even someone with 9 resistance vs 1 power gains MP, it could be fine, but even the guy with most resistance must gain mishap, not to be imune forever. As for the same type of power resistance, I think it shouldn't affect resistance. The ability to cast powerful lightning bolts should not make you resist more, same with push and pull. Absorb is the only power that should affect resistance, according to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 I agree, the defender should probably always have an increase in MP, but I think the amount of MP they gain should be proportional to their resistance level vs the attack level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShaman Posted April 24, 2007 Author Share Posted April 24, 2007 In this case, I'm totally with you I'll update my first post again. But how to calculate this MP increase? and which size of increase? rather 1, 5, 10, 20? Maybe MP_increase = 2*enemy_power - resistance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 I think that's too high. At level 3 with max resistance.... 9 = 2*9 - 9 Which would an increase of over half the MP meter. And would mean that any level of player could never block level 3 of anything more than once. Maybe... MP_increase = (7 - resistance - enemy_power) or 1 minimum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShaman Posted April 24, 2007 Author Share Posted April 24, 2007 Wait, I was talking in percentage, how many MP are there? I thought 100... then 9% increase at max resistance is not too much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 The MP meter is 0-15, so percentage increases might not work so good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShaman Posted April 24, 2007 Author Share Posted April 24, 2007 Nevermind, just gotta find something so it fits the /15. Min power is 1 Max resistance is 9 With increase = 9 - resistance + enemy_power the minimum increase is 1, and the maximum is... well 18, but you can be knocked if you have 0 resistance, easily. *Note: the fact that MP goes up to 15 only creates a new problem in the resistance calculation, I made 5 levels... 0 25 50 75 100...(see first post for better explanation). Gotta fix it so it fits the 15 MP. =>Edit: OK changed a little thing in the resistance calculation, now the minimum resistance is 1, maximum is still 9. That won't change much in the whole thing, I think. It should be fine like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 A max of 18 MP for a Force block seems pretty high. Maybe if we halved that? Wait, isn't resistance >= enemy_power in all cases? Doesn't that make the range 1-9? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShaman Posted April 25, 2007 Author Share Posted April 25, 2007 Indeed, if we proceed to the increase_MP part, it means the resistance was too high for the enemy power. So making resistance - power is a bit pointless, I agree... If we halve it we'll have: MP_increase = enemy_power - resistance/2 which is also MP_increase = 2*enemy_power - resistance (to avoid float) right? Let's test the cases: power = 1 MP_increase = 2 - 1 = 1 (maximum) MP_increase = 2 - 9 = -7 (minimum) eeh? power = 4 MP_increase = 8 - 4 = 4 (maximum) MP_increase = 8 - 9 = -1 (minimum) eeh? again power = 9 MP_increase = 18 - 9 = 9 (only case, since max resistance = max power = 9) what to do with the negative numbers? Oh wait I finally got what you meant in your last sentence, indeed, it cannot go up to 18 because resistance >= power, so in my calculation, the range is 1-9 for power 1, 4-9 for power 4, and 9 for power 9. Seems a bit high though, and if we reduce of 1? 0-8 for level 1 should be OK because being invulnerable against level 1 could do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxstate Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Are you guys sure this won't be a bit too complicated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShaman Posted April 25, 2007 Author Share Posted April 25, 2007 Well maybe it seems so because we are doing a lot of calc at the moment, but once we are done with this, it might be easier than we thought. It's not very complicated, I think... just 1 test and 2 cases... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Yeah, it just sounds complicated. IE, programmer stuff Anyway, how about... MP_increase = (9 - resistance +enemy_power)/2 This would make the range be 0-4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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