Ok so we all agree that Special moves (sans lunge)are useless, how do we improve them

[madcatmach2]

As for jetpack, I don't really get what you mean with rocket-like... You played MB2, right? (even a long time ago, or MB1, the jetpack was the same, or any JK2 mod that had jetpack, like jediplus)

play force mod III some time i think thats the kind of jet pack he wants and personally i would love to see that over our hover one

 

http://jediknight2.filefront.com/file/ForceMod_III_Return_of_the_Sith_Win_Installer;29610

 

ahh that was a cool mod if just to have my minions

[razorace]

Encumbrance system may be one of the big things to balance out hybrid classes.

Ok, we can give it a shot. Bug ticket the concept.

Going back to the DFAs, I accidentally discovered that the range of my Djem So DFA was reduced when I used the new Hard Edge weapon on JKFiles...perhaps we should eliminate or drastically shorten the distance of the initial jump to make these DFAs useful again.

So you're talking about the distance you jump when DFAing and not the amount of jump you gotta do before starting the DFA, right?

I'm still rooting for a 2-second parry paralysis...

I think the Gods of Balance would frown on that.

Don't take any offense Razor.. I'm just sick and tired of hybrids and want to get them done with already

None taken. I've been trying to address this problem as specifics are uncovered.

Issue 1:

Hybrids using jump to dodge saber attacks.

-New jumping fp cost nerfed Jedi's jump too much

+Either nerf jump (disable it) while using guns, or make gunners gain a ****load of mishap when they do it.

Bug ticket the jump FP cost issue. I'll go in and reduce the "continue" FP cost for the Jedi jumps.

 

Also, go ahead and bug ticket the idea of increasing the MP cost for firing a gun in mid-air.

-It has a bad physics system, hovers and can't go higher after it has reached a certain limit which makes it useless on big maps.

Add that to the jetpack retooling bug ticket.

-Jet fuel recharges too fast, making flame hit and runs possible. (1/10 of the bar is enough to burst you away at least 50 feet...)

Bug ticket.

But we could also just give the user a real Juyo situation; power attacks that can initiate locks on will. This would work like this:

I don't get it. Isn't that basically just the normal attack fake behavior?

[Maxstate]

Currently if saberlocks are on, a succesful non-parried power attack will always result in a lock. With the new changes a Juyo user can himself control whenever a saber lock happens (if he hits with it and it's unparried). I don't think there is a way of preventing a lock from happening after a succesful power attack currently.

[razorace]

Oh, so you could let go of a button and avoid the saberlock?

[JRHockney*]

Currently if saberlocks are on, a succesful non-parried power attack will always result in a lock. With the new changes a Juyo user can himself control whenever a saber lock happens (if he hits with it and it's unparried). I don't think there is a way of preventing a lock from happening after a succesful power attack currently.

 

I don't get it either as a perk. It would be more like a preference that would never be used unless the "unlocking" attack fake also caused a slowbounce because they get an extra hit with it. Even then, it would just be a preference more than a perk. In the bug ticket I just recently submitted for juyos lack of perk, I suggested that all special moves (DFAs, maybe lunge, cart wheel, roll stab, and maybe kick) have less FP cost, therefore making stronger or surprise moves cheaper the styles perk, and more like the actual wiki Juyo.

[razorace]

Well, maybe we could make it so that Juyo attack fakes don't cause saberlocks and just mishaps the other player. But, this would mean that Juyo users couldn't superbreak either. :|

[Maxstate]

What's the problem with letting them use both though? Via my idea I mean.

[razorace]

mmm, wouldn't it be a bit weird to have Juyo have a movement skill that other styles can't use?

[JRHockney*]

*coughs*notaperkitsapreference*coughs* I mean c'mon, give it something that makes it a true Juyo and comparible to the other saber offense 3 forms.

[razorace]

I've already suggested free attack fakes. Running out of ideas.

[JRHockney*]

I've already suggested free attack fakes. Running out of ideas.

 

But I just gave one!!!! LOL

[Maxstate]

mmm, wouldn't it be a bit weird to have Juyo have a movement skill that other styles can't use?

It's all up to the user if they know how to use this skill properly so I think it would be a good idea.

[TheShaman]

At the moment I don't think saberlocks occur everytime you land an unparried fake on the enemy, it seems to have a 50% chance to happen in this case.

So making it 100% with Juyo (even if you have to use it properly) is a far bigger advantage on the other styles ! Saberlocks drain a lot of DP, can cause mishap or death of the enemy !

I already imagine you fighting with Juyo: fake lock fake lock fake superbreak, enemy dead.

I'm rather for your first idea, inverting the perk with Makashi, mishap giver, which is more realistic. (Although this would be rather Vapaad, but anyway you made Juyo a single saber stance, and both are form 7, so I won't annoy you with that.)

[Maxstate]

At the moment I don't think saberlocks occur everytime you land an unparried fake on the enemy, it seems to have a 50% chance to happen in this case.

So making it 100% with Juyo (even if you have to use it properly) is a far bigger advantage on the other styles ! Saberlocks drain a lot of DP, can cause mishap or death of the enemy !

I already imagine you fighting with Juyo: fake lock fake lock fake superbreak, enemy dead.

I'm rather for your first idea, inverting the perk with Makashi, mishap giver, which is more realistic. (Although this would be rather Vapaad, but anyway you made Juyo a single saber stance, and both are form 7, so I won't annoy you with that.)

 

Vaapad is just Mace Windu's take on Juyo, Juyo is not a staff style.

[TheShaman]

I didn't say Juyo was a staff style. But we don't see much of Juyo's single saber, just a bit on Tatooine and at the end of DOTF.

But Vapaad is, although basically the same as Juyo, very different. It's darker, and probably more confusing, whereas Juyo focuses on agility and strength.

I was saying that because at the moment, staff has "Shii-cho".

According to the animations, I'd rather call purple "Vapaad", and staff stance "Juyo", but maybe it won't be possible since staff is yellow in basejka...

[Tanqexe]

Since we're thinking of having separate upgrades for gunners, we should do the same for sabers. Special moves and perks should be buyable upgrades...and Max is right, the pace of combat now in 009u pretty much cancels out the perks that we do have; they don't play a significant role in saber combat like they should.

 

First of all, is Max's idea difficult to code? If not then we can just try it out and see how it fits with the rest. Besides, Djem So already has a "special" move: unparried attack fakes do extra DP damage (although making it FP drain instead would be nice). I'd also suggest that when someone attacks with a "released" attack fake, if unparried it makes the mishap meter go up.

 

So where does that leave Makashi? Either beef up the mishap damage from normal strikes or lower the thresholds for mishap events (disarms, knockdowns, bounces). Or since Makashi is passive aggressive, Makashi's special move can be that you can cause disarm or get bonus DP damage with an attack fake following a successful riposte (would be a very nice bonus considering Makashi is one of the weaker styles, and it would simulate the surprise factor of a precision cut).

 

What of Soresu? Beef up its defense abilities, make it a style that someone will actually want to use. Make it so successful ripostes helps you regain DP when you're below 25 DP. We had that code before in an earlier version.

 

Making the styles more unique will give people more creativity in how they deal with duels.

 

Gotta go, but I'm just saying that making "perks" a more active, strategic effort will make fighting against and with each style more interesting...because right now they don't amount to too much. I don't see many people fighting with Soresu or Makashi, and there's a reason for that.

 

Edit: Yeah razor, eliminate or drastically reduce the distance of the DFA so that they're more practical to use.

[TheShaman]

What about making perks affect saber vs gun, too?

Here are a few ideas:

First of all, an idea would be to be able to buy the x styles you want, x is your level of saber offense. You could choose any of them, no order restriction.

 

Shii-cho is the basic form, so leaving it as it is now could do, just a higher MP regen for being balanced.

 

Makashi is a saber vs saber form. It should have a malus against guns, like 1 more DP cost for non-manually-deflected shots. As for the saber vs saber, when you attack parry someone, he should gain more MP than with another (I suggested in another post or thread that parry gives 4 MP to other, and attack parry only 2 because it forces mishap, so with makashi, it could give 4 as well). Also, winning a saberlock (no superbreak attempt) should give MP to the enemy.

 

Soresu, the defense form, is very good against blasters, so deflecting a shot should cost 1 DP less, no matter if you are manually deflecting or not. Against sabers, normal parries and attack parries should both cost half of the normal DP cost.

 

Djem-so, the offensive form, is also good against blasters, so manually deflected shots (with a windup fake or a swing) should cost half of normal DP cost. Against sabers, since it's a strength based form, it should cost 1 FP to block or parry or attack parry.

(no extra DP cost for fakes, as it is at the moment)

 

Juyo (coughvaapadcoughmaxstatecough), the confusing form, should give 1 MP when blocked and attack fakes should cost 25% more DP to block (as well as 1 MP given) because it's unpredictable.

 

I don't have any idea for duals and staff yet, I'll think about it.

[Maxstate]

We've gone through that so many times, first, it wouldn't be noticable ingame. Second, that's a very shallow interpretation of the wikipedia article on the saber styles.

[TheShaman]

Well, I'm just proposing, what I did is just augmenting the perks a bit, and also retooled them according to wikipedia, as you said... But I prefer passive perks than the control of saberlocks as you proposed earlier.

[Maxstate]

The passive ones are unnoticable. There is no valid reason to switch to any other style save for makashi or shii-cho for decreasing/increasing mishap. Even shii-cho is getting irrelevant with the speed of our combat system

 

I don't know.. maybe I was dumb in the first place for wanting perks. Sure they're fun and all and really give a twist to saber combat but if everyone can get every style what's the point?

[TheShaman]

That's why I said making the styles buyable would be better.

1 style per offene level, so you have to choose.

 

(btw go on hamachi, you are afk without being afk)

[Maxstate]

We've discussed that too and it has been ticketed already.

[razorace]

I don't know. I like Shaman's suggestions.

 

I know, I know. This is a reversal on my part, but I'm warming up to the idea of the 7 saber forms.

[razorace]

We can name them at will, just need someone to do the additional graphics.

[TheShaman]

Or not to hurt anybody who holds dear the saber styles (and to avoid things like "it's not juyo it's vapaad!" or "it's not djem so it's shien!"...) what about just putting a roman number of the form?

Shii-cho would be "I" in yellow, Makashi would be "II" in cyan, Soresu would be "III" in blue, Ataru/Ataro/Sokan would be "IV" in green, Shien/Djem-so would be "V" in red, Niman would be "VI" in orange, and Juyo/Vapaad would be "VII" in purple.

Although we don't have animations for form IV and VI... Maybe forget them and call the 7 forms the 5 current we have + dual + staff? but what is their name (dual tra'kata or so, but staff? juyo as well? heh...) or number?