Nancy Allen`` Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Think back to how Obi Wan appeared wounded when Aldaraan was destroyed. Surely Yoda would be the same given what happened, and the fight was at best a draw. Also keep in mind that the Sith teachings would come from Revan, it was Darth Bane I think who carried on Revan's teachings when he found them. So anything Sidious might have learnt would stem from Revan, and there are things that he hadn't learnt from the redeemed Sith Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephira Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Also keep in mind that the Sith teachings would come from Revan, it was Darth Bane I think who carried on Revan's teachings when he found them. So anything Sidious might have learnt would stem from Revan, and there are things that he hadn't learnt from the redeemed Sith Lord. Keep in mind that according to DESB sidious had mastered every aspect of the force. Meaning he mastered every force technique that ever existed and sadly revan does not know as much, Revan does not have the force storm(worm hole) technique which is the most powerful dark side technique only palpatine has used And darth nihilus force killer technique which only nihilus and sidious has. So yes, sidious knows everything that revan does and knows even more than what the prodigal knight once known Sidious can simply use the force sever technique to cut revan off the force, so why didnt sidious use it on luke skywalker in DE? Because luke skywalker has mastered the fallanasi looping technique which is the best defence against force sever. And no, revan does not have this defence seeing that he has never met the fallanasi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancy Allen`` Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Remember Endor? A Rebel strike force and the Ewoks defeated the Empire's best. Nuff said on how powerful Sidious might be. And there's one surefire thing that would bring him down more than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephira Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Remember Endor? A Rebel strike force and the Ewoks defeated the Empire's best. Nuff said on how powerful Sidious might be. And there's one surefire thing that would bring him down more than anything else. Seems you are unable to tell the difference between 1 v1 combat between force users and a technological war. READ and comprehend my posts, thank you because all you have been doing is derailing the topic and telling me things irrelevant to sidious vs revan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancy Allen`` Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Sidious' ego. Palpatine's arrogance would defeat him. We saw this with Yoda, we saw this with both Death Stars, with Luke, the whole lot. He would just rock up expecting to beat Revan, and that would be his downfall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephira Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Sidious' ego. Palpatine's arrogance would defeat him. We saw this with Yoda, we saw this with both Death Stars, with Luke, the whole lot. He would just rock up expecting to beat Revan, and that would be his downfall.b Its true that he has been arrogant, But did you realise when he starts to get serious he will not hesitate to kill his enemies? He instantly killed 3 sith acolytes powerful enough to bring maul back to life with one shot of lightning and turned them to dust at the same time. Oh and yoda is more powerful than revan which is why sidious had a harder time fighting with him. Again a technological war bears no relevance to a force fight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancy Allen`` Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Actually given that we are discussing one supposedly inferior force being able to beat one that is meant to be superior it does apply. This is known as Post hoc, propter hoc, and there's also evidence of special pleading, presenting only the evidence on one side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephira Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Actually given that we are discussing one supposedly inferior force being able to beat one that is meant to be superior it does apply. Lol you have yet to prove that other than just speculating. Bad analogy This is known as Post hoc, propter hoc, and there's also evidence of special pleading, presenting only the evidence on one side. I have posted enough evidence to dispute sidious as the winner while you or jambi have yet to do the opposite IF i were to go by your logic. I guess thrawn would smack revan easily in a force fight seeing that he is an even better at military tactics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancy Allen`` Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 I have yet to see anything that would suggest that Sidious would beat Revan, regardless of all the 'evidence' you have given. It would seem that all Revan would have to do to win is use force lightning, or deflect it back. Besides which whatever is posted is mostly just opinion anyway, there's no sense in debating with a raving fanboy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Nine Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 It's amusing how heated some people can get over a couple of fictional characters. I suggest both of you take a breather and come back when you're a bit calmer and can discuss without sounding like petulant kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephira Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 I have yet to see anything that would suggest that Sidious would beat Revan, regardless of all the 'evidence' you have given. It would seem that all Revan would have to do to win is use force lightning, Ha force lightning which sidious can effortlessly dissipate just like yoda Despite all my evidence you have yet to accept them. Seems you have missed the part palpatine destroyed a thousand warriors with his force storm technique and drained the entire planet of byss with the same technique nihilus used Uh you have yet to see how sidious wins? I listed down the feats that sidious did with the force. So how can sidious win? Seeing that he mastered every technique these are a few he can use: * Deadly Sight * Drain Knowledge * Electromagnetic Torpedo * Force Destruction * Force Drain * Force Fear o Force Horror advanced version of Force Fear o Force Insanity the most advanced version of Force Horror * Force Flight * Force Lightning (Living hands required) o Chain Lightning variation of Force Lightning o Force Shock variation of Force Lightning o Force Storm (lightning) advanced version of Force Lightning * Force Scream * Force Slow o Force Affliction variation of Force Slow o Force Plague advanced version of Force Slow * Force Storm (wormhole) * Force Wound o Force Choke variation of Force Grip o Force Grip advanced version of Force Wound o Force Crush the most advanced version of Force Wound * Kinetite * Mechu-deru * Midichlorian Manipulation * Mind Control * Sith Alchemy * Spear of Midnight Black * Thought Bomb * Torture by Chagrin # Battle Meditation # Breath Control # Comprehend Speech # Force Bellow # Force Body # Force Comprehension # Force Confusion # Force Deflection (without a lightsaber) # Force Flash # Force Illusion # Force Meld # Revitalize # Force Suppression * Force Breach advanced version of Force Suppression # Force Throw # Force Vision # Force Whirlwind variation of Force Push # Force Wave advanced version of Force Push * Force Repulse another advanced version of Force Push # Force Whisper # Precognition # Psychometry # Sever Force # Spirit Transference # Tapas Sources? Dark empire source book and wookiepedia. So do NOT accuse me of making these up or deflect it back. Besides which whatever is posted is mostly just opinion anyway, there's no sense in debating with a raving fanboy. 1) you cant deflect a force sever technique or a force storm. And how can i be a fanboy of sidious when all i did is argue with facts? I said time and again im a vader fanboy and even then ill still admit revan beats vader fair and square. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoffe Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 * Force Flight And yet he was killed by being tossed down a ventilation shaft. How ironic. Seems to me you're comparing characters from two different systems, which is kind of hard since there is no common frame of reference to compare it to. Revan is a d20 Starwars RPG character, and under that system, capped at level 20, it is not possible for anyone to have such a dire list of skills as posted above. Sidious Mk II is a comic(?) book character, and as such is limited only by what limits the author imposes upon him. Reminds me of the "Star Trek vs Star Wars vs Balylon 5"-wars that flare up every now and then about whose ships are more powerful even though the three settings have completely different technological frameworks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephira Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 And yet he was killed by being tossed down a ventilation shaft. How ironic. He didnt have time to react did he, Force flight doesnt literally mean you flying, its just levitating yourself in the air to move over small distances or leap very high but come down slowly Seems to me you're comparing characters from two different systems, which is kind of hard since there is no common frame of reference to compare it to. Revan is a d20 Starwars RPG character, and under that system, capped at level 20, it is not possible for anyone to have such a dire list of skills as posted above. Sidious Mk II is a comic(?) book character, and as such is limited only by what limits the author imposes upon him. Not really. I just listed down every force power that existed which sidious has mastered because gameplay mechanics and stats are not canon. If i were to go by stats exar kun would > all other sith lords Reminds me of the "Star Trek vs Star Wars vs Balylon 5"-wars that flare up every now and then about whose ships are more powerful even though the three settings have completely different technological frameworks. Well about the warship thing personally i think star wars would win. Take a look at this chart if you will http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/7206/comparisonsi8.gif on a pic that big.. post a link to it next time. Not all of our members have high-speed... ` Cz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RellioN Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Revan owns you all, and all jedi simultaneously, using his Infinite Fleet and superior tactics. And please don't assume that Revan is some stupid naïve light side fanboy, it makes me cry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obss Damell Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Revan is like....the best. of the best. of the best. noone can beat him, so certainly isidious couldnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RellioN Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 indeed. rofl @ sidious fanboys trying to make up excuses for his defeat to Mace Windu. the canon that you seem to worship, doesn't mention any of them anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephira Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Revan owns you all, and all jedi simultaneously, using his Infinite Fleet and superior tactics. And please don't assume that Revan is some stupid naïve light side fanboy, it makes me cry. Lolol canon says sidious > revan. Fanboys says revan > sidious. Please, just try to amumse me Oh and according to TNEC, revans a lightsider. Revan is like....the best. of the best. of the best. noone can beat him, so certainly isidious couldnt Lucas says sidious is stronger than revan in his statements, so does KJ anderson and daniel wallace. Try again, sidious > revan indeed. rofl @ sidious fanboys trying to make up excuses for his defeat to Mace Windu. the canon that you seem to worship, doesn't mention any of them anyway. Nope. They are not made up, they are according to common sense, analogy and logical thinking. Because how can 1)Mace beat sidious when yoda cant seeing that yoda is more powerful than mace windu? The answer? Vaapad and shatterpoint is what gave mace the upperhand. Notice how sidious dominated mace windu at the start of the fight? Now till shatterpoint kicked in. What is vaapad and shatterpoint? If your going to actually try to prove revan > sidious im sure you would try to at the least find out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RellioN Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Lolol canon says sidious > revan. lol where exactly? Fanboys says revan > sidious. Please, just try to amumse me Oh and according to TNEC, revans a lightsider. TNEC? Revan is a lightsaber? Lucas says sidious is stronger than revan in his statements, so does KJ anderson and daniel wallace. Try again, sidious > revanshow me where Nope. They are not made up, they are according to common sense, analogy and logical thinking. Because how can 1)Mace beat sidious when yoda cant seeing that yoda is more powerful than mace windu? you think in absolutes. just because guy1 may be stronger than guy2 doesn't mean that guy2 can't kill guy1 The answer? Vaapad and shatterpoint is what gave mace the upperhand. Notice how sidious dominated mace windu at the start of the fight? Now till shatterpoint kicked in. http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/macewindu/index.html "Windu had disarmed Sidious and cornered the treacherous Sith Lord into the frame of his expansive office window. Fearing that Sidious was too powerful to take prisoner -- the Dark Lord still had control of the Senate and courts -- Windu moved to deliver a deathblow. Torn between his loyalties, and needing Palpatine alive to fulfill his quest for arcane knowledge to preserve the life of his beloved, Anakin acted." Windu owned Sidious if it were not for Anakin. Can you find any where in the official canon that Sidious was "stronger" than Windu? the excuse that it was a setup to lure anakin to the ds isn't mentioned anywhere in the canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RellioN Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Darth Revan isn't even in canon, he's expanded universe. Makes Sidious look like a lil innocent puppy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephira Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 lol where exactly? TNEC? Revan is a lightsaber? The new essential chronology. Find the page yourself. "Yoda was unable to defeat the most powerful sith lord in history" DESB page 109 "Palpatine has risen from the dead. The most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived had returned." Star Wars Insider, Kevin J. Anderson, upon asked if he ever intended his Sith "to be stronger than the OT sith: "No. Exar Kun, Naga Sadow and the others are on a firmly lower tier than Emperor Palpatine." Palpatine learned a Force Storm. It is is an attack that rips apart the fabric of existence and space-time. It can do everything from create a wormhole to move a person lightyears to ravage the surface of a planet to annihilate starfleets. Palpatine uses Force lightning with enough power to kill 100 augmented Strormtroopers effortlessly. Same lightning reduced 3 dark siders strong enough to resurrect Darth Maul to charred skeletons. Empire's End, one of the Ancient Sith spirits: "He gave up everything to the Dark Side long ago. He has become the greatest who ever lived. He is the strongest who ever lived....I say we give what he wishes." Yes revans a lightsider according to SW databanks and the nec show me where Star wars insider, the interviews etc. "In order to face and defeat sidious you have to be on the level of mace and yoda" which revan isnt seeing that POTJ book stated yoda is the most powerful foe against dark siders which means he > revan you think in absolutes. just because guy1 may be stronger than guy2 doesn't mean that guy2 can't kill guy1 Thats very true, its a fact. Sidious lightning could instantly kill 3 sith acolytes powerful enough to reserruct maul from the dead. Wouldnt the same happen to revan? Windu owned Sidious if it were not for Anakin. Can you find any where in the official canon that Sidious was "stronger" than Windu? the excuse that it was a setup to lure anakin to the ds isn't mentioned anywhere in the canon. Lmao. Did you realise yoda was more powerful mace windu and that yoda is sidious equal? Did you realise Dark empire sidious is even more powerful than movie sidious? That Dark empire sidious would annihilate mace windu without the need to even draw his lightsaber? Read Dark empire. Read the nec. Read all the sources then come back and try to debate with me. And what do you know of canon? You didnt realise revan was a lightsider according to several sources: Tnec and leland chees statement Darth Revan isn't even in canon, he's expanded universe. Makes Sidious look like a lil innocent puppy HAH, Do you even know whats canon? Revans existence is canon. He is in the C-canon category. Nope, sidious > revan. Face it "When Luke Skywalker declared his ultimate standing with the light side of the Force, an enraged Palpatine unleashed another Force Storm over the Pinnacle Moon, obliterating the New Republic fleet and ending the lives of thousands." "Force storm was a dark side Force power, and possibly the most powerful Force ability known." "Force storm was actually not a storm; in fact, it was the ability to create hyperspace wormholes via the dark side of the Force. A Force storm could range from the size of a small starship, like a freighter, to huge maws capable of obliterating whole starfleets. The smaller storms appeared more easily controlled from a greater distance. No Force users other than Emperor Palpatine have exhibited this ability." See the picture? Thats palpatines force storm obliterating the entire rebel fleet during the events of dark empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephira Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 There, i have settled it, turn back a page and there is enough evidence to place sidious superior to revan according to facts and sources which clearly indicates sidious > revan directly. Ill be outta down for a day but when i get back i will take care of anybody who attempts to discredit the sources and resort to fanboyism of revan > sidious which will never be proven Sephira, please do not act like you know everything and act condescending towards everyone else as if your word is gospel. If the only way you can debate is like a petulant child, then you'd best not debate at all. Consider yourself warned. ~9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RellioN Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Yes revans a lightsider according to SW databanks and the nec I know but not in the games... where you can choose whether revan is ls or ds. The starwars databanks just assume the ls path. Star wars insider, the interviews etc. "In order to face and defeat sidious you have to be on the level of mace and yoda" which revan isnt seeing that POTJ book stated yoda is the most powerful foe against dark siders which means he > revan 1) if that quote were true you would be able to find it at google which you can't 2) give me a source that i can check myself 3) where does it say that yoda is the most powerful to ever have lived? That Dark empire sidious would annihilate mace windu without the need to even draw his lightsaber? fanboy proof. You can't possibly prove this. Its your imagination going wild you lil funny fanboy HAH, Do you even know whats canon? your fantasy world Nope, sidious < revan. Face it "When Luke Skywalker declared his ultimate standing with the light side of the Force, an enraged Palpatine unleashed another Force Storm over the Pinnacle Moon, obliterating the New Republic fleet and ending the lives of thousands."you fail to mention how that worm hole consumed Palpatine himself as well, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RellioN Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 "Force storm was actually not a storm; in fact, it was the ability to create hyperspace wormholes via the dark side of the Force. A Force storm could range from the size of a small starship, like a freighter, to huge maws capable of obliterating whole starfleets. The smaller storms appeared more easily controlled from a greater distance. No Force users other than Emperor Palpatine have exhibited this ability." Those guys at wookiepedia have no idea what a wormhole is. It would obliterated the entire solar system. Also Darth Nihilus was said to be "pure power" and he consumed entire planets, made people into his undead slaves. Thus he's clearly more powerful than Darth Sidious, making canon to contradict itself if it states that Darth Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord to ever have lived. More likely it stated that Darth Sidious was the most powerful Sith Lord in recent times. Rellion, enough with the flame-baiting. You knew you had your post deleted, yet you posted again with more juvenile insults. Do not do this again. Consider yourself warned. ~9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Nine Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 revan > sidious which will never be proven Unless George Lucas himself declares it so, in which case all of your 'proof' (you don't cite sources properly, by the by), is all for naught. Until Lucas himself gives a definitive word on this subject, all (meaning everyone's) of your posturing is just conjecture. You can debate until you're blue in the face that Sidious > Revan or vice versa, but until you hear it from the man himself or an accredited, universally-agreed-upon source, it will still be your opinion, nothing more. I'm shutting this thread down for now, since it's obvious the parties involved cannot debate without resorting to schoolyard insults and one-upsmanship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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