The first school shooting in Finland

[Ray Jones]

So to me that means trigger guards, gun safes and general gun safety (that also means not giving the key or the combinations to minors)

I think the whole point of a weapon is that you have it ready at hand, for immediate use. What would I need a weapon for (the so often stated reason of "self defence") when I first have to go downstairs enter a code to get to the basement where I have three locks and five fingerprint scanners before I can get the gun to hassle around with a trigger lock so I can blow that guy's ass off?

 

 

So if your kid is trying to buy a violent game, he's trying to break the rules. If your kid is bootlegging a game, he IS breaking the rules. if your kid kills people because of a game that he broke the rules to get, it's your kid's fault.

It's hardly a kids fault that people create influences that hypothetical makes my kid go and kill people. It may to a certain degree be my fault, because I might have done something wrong with how I raise my child, or missed out to teach my child no to kill or whatever. The point is, *I* as a parent and my child have to deal with the fact that so many fail to show a minimum of responsibility.

 

And it applies to all ages, people from a certain age or maturity level up are entirely responsible for their actions. Teens are no exception because of raging hormones.

Not to "your" laws. Kids can't vote, drive a car, buy cigarettes or booze. Why would that be?

[Web Rider]

It's hardly a kids fault that people create influences that hypothetical makes my kid go and kill people. It may to a certain degree be my fault, because I might have done something wrong with how I raise my child, or missed out to teach my child no to kill or whatever. The point is, *I* as a parent and my child have to deal with the fact that so many fail to show a minimum of responsibility.

 

if your kid isn't at fault for their actions when they kill somebody, then it's hardly your fault for raising him badly. And you can't really blame those guys who make games, they were just influenced by society, and I mean, society is controlled by the government and media, so it must be George Bush and Ted Turner's fault.

 

I always knew Time Warner, Disney and the IRS were the cause of all school shootings.[/sarcasm]

 

get a grip. If you buy your kid a violent game, and they go and kill people, you can't blame the game because they abided by the law and only sold it to adult. it you an adult, YOU who gave it to your kid. So if your kid does something bad and you're looking for blame, look no farther than a mirror.

 

Not to "your" laws. Kids can't vote, drive a car, buy cigarettes or booze. Why would that be?

 

maybe, because if you actually read what I wrote, I said "above a certain age or maturity level", since those people aren't above a certain age or maturity level, they aren't responsible for certain things. Killing people is still something that people of most ages are responsible for.

[mimartin]

I think the whole point of a weapon is that you have it ready at hand, for immediate use. What would I need a weapon for (the so often stated reason of "self defence") when I first have to go downstairs enter a code to get to the basement where I have three locks and five fingerprint scanners before I can get the gun to hassle around with a trigger lock so I can blow that guy's ass off? [/Quote] To me the entire point of having a gun for self-defense is making sure it is not used by the criminal first and foremost. Kind of pointless to be robed and murdered in my home with my own gun isn’t it? I have trigger guards and a gun safe and Carl Lewis couldn’t make it from the front door to my bedroom door before I have a shell in the chamber of my shotgun and the trigger guard off. Yes, I use a shotgun for home protection because there is no real need to aim it.

 

With a little practice, a trigger guard is not that time consuming to remove. Anyway I’d rather be killed in the unlikely event I am robed by someone with a gun then take the chances of being killed with my own gun or have someone use my firearms to murder an innocent victim.

 

Also I only need one firearm outside the safe to protect myself so there is not need to fumble with the gun safe.

[Corinthian]

Actually, the whole point of having a gun for self defense is so you can defend yourself. If the entire point of having a gun for self defense is making sure you're not killed with it, aren't you better off having no gun at all?

[mimartin]

Actually, the whole point of having a gun for self defense is so you can defend yourself. If the entire point of having a gun for self defense is making sure you're not killed with it, aren't you better off having no gun at all?

I guess if you are so lame with a firearm that you can't unlock, insert a shell and arm it in the time it takes someone to break your door down or climb through a window then no you shouldn't have a firearm. If they get in faster than I can do all that, I have a personalized Louisville Slugger waiting for them. It is armed and unlocked and child safe.

 

More likely someone is going to break in when your not home. They find your unlocked gun and go to steal it. You surprise them; you are then killed by your own gun.

 

It is not difficult you can protect yourself and be responsible too.

[Ray Jones]

To me the entire point of having a gun for self-defense is making sure it is not used by the criminal first and foremost. Kind of pointless to be robed and murdered in my home with my own gun isn’t it?

Kind of pointless to be murdered with *any* random gun at *any* random place, isn't it?

 

I have trigger guards and a gun safe and Carl Lewis couldn’t make it from the front door to my bedroom door before I have a shell in the chamber of my shotgun and the trigger guard off.

That is, assuming you are actually at home, and already in your bedroom, and taking notice of someone breaking into your house, and instead of ransacking your fridge he's thinking "oh let's get them guns in the bedroom". Also, you do kind of recognise that most housebreakers or robbers do bring their own guns, don't you? I personally am not sure if I would really want to incite a shooting in my house where my kids are sleeping, either. Would be kind of too pointless if my kids die because of a bullet coming from my own gun.

 

With a little practice, a trigger guard is not that time consuming to remove.

Anyway, the punk breaking into your house with a gun ready *will* be faster with pulling the trigger, as he most likely will not have to get it out of the closet, load it and remove a trigger lock first.

 

Also I only need one firearm outside the safe to protect myself so there is not need to fumble with the gun safe.

Yes, maybe, but one gun *outside* the safe is one easy taken gun.

 

 

if your kid isn't at fault for their actions when they kill somebody, then it's hardly your fault for raising him badly. And you can't really blame those guys who make games, they were just influenced by society, and I mean, society is controlled by the government and media, so it must be George Bush and Ted Turner's fault.

Well not Bush directly, but as you see the list of causalities is a long one before it ends up in some "misunderstood" individual taking the wrong path.

 

I always knew Time Warner, Disney and the IRS were the cause of all school shootings.[/sarcasm]

It is, in fact, the fact that Barbie left Ken.

 

If you buy your kid a violent game, and they go and kill people, you can't blame the game because they abided by the law and only sold it to adult. it you an adult, YOU who gave it to your kid.

That is of course, correct. But why would I "blame" others when I personally am responsible? I mean, let's assume for just one second that it is given that I, "the parent", do not hand out inappropriate material to my kids, m'kay.

 

So if your kid does something bad and you're looking for blame, look no farther than a mirror.

Sorry, I cannot agree. I think I pretty sure can say that everything seriously illegal I have done in my life is not my mum's or dad's fault. Really. Neither do they did something similar, nor did they know any "bad" persons, nor did they in any way give me a reason to do the things I did.

 

maybe, because if you actually read what I wrote, I said "above a certain age or maturity level", since those people aren't above a certain age or maturity level, they aren't responsible for certain things.

Oh, I read what you said, so, at what age do you become a fully legal adult in your country, with all rights and duties? And at what age do you personally consider a person fully mature, regarding all points of law and life?

 

I think that really varies from person to person, and I personally thought I was fully mature already when I was sixteen, but in fact, I wasn't really near any matureness before I became father ten years later. In the end, it's really hard to say, and depends a lot on how you grow up and such.

[Web Rider]

Jeeze you're good at taking things out of context

 

Well not Bush directly, but as you see the list of causalities is a long one before it ends up in some "misunderstood" individual taking the wrong path.

 

It is, in fact, the fact that Barbie left Ken.

the whole thing was sarcasm, not just the remark about AOL+Ted Turner.

 

That is of course, correct. But why would I "blame" others when I personally am responsible? I mean, let's assume for just one second that it is given that I, "the parent", do not hand out inappropriate material to my kids, m'kay.

dunno, you've been a proponent of not blaming anyone under the age of 18 for their actions.

 

Sorry, I cannot agree. I think I pretty sure can say that everything seriously illegal I have done in my life is not my mum's or dad's fault. Really. Neither do they did something similar, nor did they know any "bad" persons, nor did they in any way give me a reason to do the things I did.

since that's not even what I was saying, that's not even relevant.

 

If you had paid attention, I was still talking about if you, the hypothetical parent, bought a game, and gave it to your kid, and your kid killed people. It's your fault, not the gun's or the game's.

 

Oh, I read what you said, so, at what age do you become a fully legal adult in your country, with all rights and duties? And at what age do you personally consider a person fully mature, regarding all points of law and life?

that's why we have trials, to determine to what degree a person is responsible for the action(s) they took.

 

I think that really varies from person to person, and I personally thought I was fully mature already when I was sixteen, but in fact, I wasn't really near any matureness before I became father ten years later. In the end, it's really hard to say, and depends a lot on how you grow up and such.

that's why we have trials, to determine to what degree a person is responsible for the action(s) they took.

 

whenever a person does anything, they are responsible for their actions, it was with their hands that whatever was done, was done. But trials and existing laws help outline the extenuating circumstances that would reduce the level of blame. I don't think I need to go into how our legal system works beyond that.

[Ray Jones]

Jeeze you're good at taking things out of context

 

 

the whole thing was sarcasm, not just the remark about AOL+Ted Turner.

Who said I did not see that?

 

 

dunno, you've been a proponent of not blaming anyone under the age of 18 for their actions.

Be so kind and show me where I did say such things. You're taking things out of context here. I merely asked you if we could get off the point that parents are responsible when they buy/give their kids inappropriate material, because that stands out of question.

[mimartin]

Kind of pointless to be murdered with *any* random gun at *any* random place, isn't it?[/Quote]I find any life needless taken to be pointless, if I had to die from gun violence I just don’t want to be the one that purchased the bullet.

That is, assuming you are actually at home, and already in your bedroom, and taking notice of someone breaking into your house, and instead of ransacking your fridge he's thinking "oh let's get them guns in the bedroom".[/Quote]I’m a little more observant than that. A gun is my last line of defense not the end all defense. Windows and door are not that inviting for burglars. I’ve by the way been burglarized before having a television stolen. Didn’t really care that much about the TV, but it does make you feel violated to have someone uninvited come into your home.

Also, you do kind of recognise that most housebreakers or robbers do bring their own guns, don't you?[/Quote]I really don’t know if this is true, but for argument sake I’ll agree. My personal belief is it is more important how I lived then whether I die or not (too many John Wayne movies I guess). I would rather end up dead from a random robber than have my gun used to kill an innocent victim or accidently kill someone I love. I’m not going to pull the trigger on a burglar until I see what I’m shooting at. Not going to kill someone by mistake even if it does mean my life. If I did kill an innocent victim I could not live with it so why should I take that chance.

I Personally am not sure if I would really want to incite a shooting in my house where my kids are sleeping, either. Would be kind of too pointless if my kids die because of a bullet coming from my own gun.[/Quote]Agreed and the same goes for a neighbor or any other innocent victim. Personally they can take my material things. I plan to only defend my family and myself. If they stay out of the bedroom closet they will only have to deal with the police the alarm has summoned.

Anyway, the punk breaking into your house with a gun ready *will* be faster with pulling the trigger, as he most likely will not have to get it out of the closet, load it and remove a trigger lock first. [/Quote] First off I’m staying in the closet with the gun the punk will have to come to me. 2nd I’ve timed myself and it took a little less than ten seconds to remove the trigger lock and insert two shells.I'm sure it would take longer in the dark and under pressure, but to me the benefit outweighs the risk.

Yes, maybe, but one gun *outside* the safe is one easy taken gun.[/Quote] Sure, but that will depend on the floor plan of the home. I live in a 1000 sq ft apartment 5 steps and I’m at the closet from any of the three rooms. Plus from the closet I can cover all entry points and I’m shooting away from the public and into a solid wall.