Astrotoy7 Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 I've heard good reports about the Asus. But as you can guess Char, If I was going to commit to corei7, I'd go for the Shuttle SX58H7 in a snap mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Man, what's it going to take to cure you of your proprietary hardware madness? Anywho, I'm gathering the final pieces of the puzzle together now, and I should get them by the middle of next week. It's going to come to ~$600.00 after rebates and other discounts, but it's going to be a lot nicer than I had originally planned for ~$50.00-$100.00 more than I was originally intending to spend (ain't that always the way it goes? ), while still being about 2/3 of the cost of a Core i7 system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingerhs Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Core i7??? a bit too overpriced and slightly overhyped, IMHO. is there any hope in me convincing you to go with a high end Core 2 Quad or a Phenom II?? at least prices on DDR3 are a lot lower than they were a year ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 I mostly agree, but I dont think that Core i7 is overhyped, sporting a 17% single-threaded IPC advantage over Core 2 Quad like it does, even with it's anemic L2 cache. And Hyper-Threading enables it to handle 8 simultaneous threads almost as well as 2 C2Qs put together. Recent BIOS and driver revisions have really improved its performance in the ~6 months since it was released. It's really all about what you'll need it for. Avery's building a new rig for graphics design and she'll definitely need Core i7. I'm not even going quad-core, ATM; I just don't need it. What I do need is maximum single- and dual-core performance for gaming. Here's the hardware and OS that I've already bought with prices adjusted for rebates and discounts: Motherboard: Zotac nForce 780i Supreme -$116.08 CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo Wolfdale 6M E8400 -$128.79 RAM: Corsair XMS2 2x2GB PC2-8500 (5-5-5-15) -$30.00 Graphics Cards: 2xPNY 9600 GSO (96SP, 192-bit model) 768MB GDDR3 -These two cards in SLI should deliver the performance level of the GTX 260 at least -$80.00 for both! HDD: Western Digital Caviar Black 640GB -$68.24 Optical Drive: Sony 24x SATA DVD burner -$22.80 CPU Heatsink: Sunbeam Core Contact Freezer 120mm -$28.99 Case Fans: Scythe 120mm and Cooler Master 80mm -$15.58 Case: Ultra Wizard (Junky, but it works. Hell, I don't care what it looks like. ) -FREE* Power Supply: Ultra X-Finity 600W (definitely NOT junk) -FREE* Operating System: MS Windows Vista Home Premium 64-bit -$77.99 Total: (so far): $568.47, and I didn't have to pay tax or shipping on any of it. *Yes, FREE. Fry's Electronics and Ultra were running these crazy promotions a couple of years ago when Ultra was first entering the US market. I got a case and a couple of PSUs for free after rebate. Good times. And, yes, I'm going to overclock the absolute crap out of this thing once I get it put together. 4+GHz, here I come! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Char Ell Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Those are some amazing prices Q. You are definitely a bargain hunting master. I've heard good reports about the Asus. But as you can guess Char, If I was going to commit to corei7, I'd go for the Shuttle SX58H7 in a snap mtfbwya Good to know. To me it's a toss up between these two. As far as h/w choice goes, I already have a case and 80+ Bronze PSU that I don't feel like sidelining. Still waiting for Shuttle to come out with an AM3 model so I can use it to try my hand at running a media center. Core i7??? a bit too overpriced and slightly overhyped, IMHO. is there any hope in me convincing you to go with a high end Core 2 Quad or a Phenom II?? Considering I'm currently using a Pentium 4 and am on a 4-5 year upgrade cycle, probably not. Besides, I do want the multi-threading horsepower for video editing. The Pentium 4 just isn't making it happen. And I'd rather go with the integrated memory controller solution than Core 2 Quad FSB. As for Phenom II, its performance really doesn't match up to Core i7. That being said, I'm trying to hold out for a price drop so I can buy a Core i7 920 for $250 or less. Not sure how much longer I'll manage to wait though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 You can already get a 920 for $229.99 if you live near a Micro Center. It was down to $199.99 for a few days recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Char Ell Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 Hmmm.... Unfortunately I do not live within a reasonable driving distance from any Micro Center. I'll keep that in mind though so thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 Yeah, neither do I. It shouldn't be too long before the 920's price comes down elsewhere, if only temporarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabretooth Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Oh great Tech Community, I invoke thy powers to give me advice! As some of you may know, I happen to have a spanking new computer that has a decent onboard video solution to boot. I plan on buying a video card by Christmas this year, so I was wondering what the local rap is about graphic cards. I have my eyes on ATi's 4470 and 4850, the latter appears to have higher benchmarks, but the latter has some sexy tech wizardry with GDDR5 memory or some such. I do not know about the nVidia camp, so I'm especially interested if there are any nVidia cards worth their salt (I hear they have that fancy new PhysX thingie included now). Budget is $100, low cost is appreciated. Card should last out for some 3-4 years (be able to play new games at Highest/High/Medium-High at least), and I'm not too interested in overclocking. Current system: AMD Phenom X4 9950 BE 2 GB RAM (will prolly buy another 2GB stick with the GPU) One PCIe slot (no crossfire/SLI kthxbai) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Char Ell Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Congrats on the new rig, Sabretooth. As far as I know the Radeon HD 4850 uses GDDR3 memory so nothing particularly unusual or snazzy about its memory. From an initial search it appears there are a few of these cards that can be purchased for USD$100 or slightly less. If rumors are true though and AMD launches its next gen of GPU's in the next couple of months we may see more price drops for the 48xx cards before too long. Also, if you're in India then what merchants can you purchase from? I don't want to quote some prices from different websites only to find out you can't buy from them. Q is pretty good at finding smoking deals though so hopefully he'll chime in with some recommendations. What resolution do you plan/want to use when playing your games over the next couple of years? That will play a big role in determining what card you will need to meet your Very High/High quality graphic gameplay requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabretooth Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 My monitor only goes upto 1360x768, so I don't think that's very huge. I'll most probably get the card off a local dealer who generally sells cheap, but I just wanted to know what the perfect card will be. I'll be buying somewhere around Christmas, so that's some 4 months left for prices to drop. So the price issue is kinda vague, just give me a good mainstream card to consider that'll retail at around $100. And btw, I meant to say former, the 4770 has GDDR5, not 4850. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 wow - If Q can find cheap deals in India, then that will be a super effort! Surely you have a local pc shops sabre? If nit, there's always ebay India. Finally, you did not mention which power supply you had - it has some bearing on certain card choices. mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingerhs Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 by that time, i wouldn't be surprised to see Radeon 4890 prices at around $100 or so, knowing AMD's strategy of price cutting these days. and don't count out Nvidia, either. i highly doubt that they'll just sit by and do nothing while AMD launches a whole new line of graphics cards in time for the holidays. you have to remember that all bets are off with pricing in the PC Hardware market when something new comes around. there's always a lot of savings to be had as companies try to stay competitive price-wise, so keep that in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 GDDR5 isnt all it's cracked up to be. You have a performance boost to measure against increased power draw and heat production...which then affects performance!! *sigh* why the heck did AMD buy ATI.... *laments* mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Because it happened during the reign of Ruinz? Still, I'd be willing to bet that Nvidia's next top-line cards will be using GDDR5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Because it happened during the reign of Ruinz? Still, I'd be willing to bet that Nvidia's next top-line cards will be using GDDR5. I posted the GT300s reported/leaked specs earlier on - Ive gone blank in recalling them Not a suprise at all. Some of their mid end cards already do sport it. Im thinking nvidia were hoping to pair the 'hot-hot-hot- GDDR5 with the relatively cooler 55nm(and smaller) parts and arrive at some type of happier medium than the Radeon 4870X2 marshmallow cooker Astro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 My monitor only goes upto 1360x768, so I don't think that's very huge. I'll most probably get the card off a local dealer who generally sells cheap, but I just wanted to know what the perfect card will be. I'll be buying somewhere around Christmas, so that's some 4 months left for prices to drop. So the price issue is kinda vague, just give me a good mainstream card to consider that'll retail at around $100. And btw, I meant to say former, the 4770 has GDDR5, not 4850. Those two cards are similar in performance, with the 4770 sporting the newer tech (45nm GPU, GDDR5 using a 128-bit bus) and the 4850 using slighly older tech (55nm GPU, GDDR3 on a 256-bit bus). I would still get the 4850, because its GPU features the full 800 shaders compared with the 4770's 640(?). Both can be had for about the same price here in the states. At your resolution you shouldn't need a frame buffer any larger than 512MB. Just make sure that it comes with adequate cooling, or that your case has good ventilation, and be sure to use a utility to adjust the fan speed. Some of those 4850s have downright crappy coolers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabretooth Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Okey-do then, no 4770. Do I get any special bonuses for an AMD/ATi pair? As for the PSU, I currently have a 400W I got with the case. I'm guessing these new hotshots will need a 500? I've got two extra fan slots too, I'm guessing I'll have to get them filled to cool the GPU. Hopefully that should keep temperatures cool, but I really am impressed by how these new swanky computers can handle well under pressure. My old PC was very cranky with temperature, had to keep the window open or it overheated and went dud until it cooled down. And on the opposite end, if temps got too low in the monsoon, I had to resurrect it with a hair dryer. Is nVidia's PhysX thingie worth the buy? Anything from the green camp I should be interested in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Hopefully that should keep temperatures cool, but I really am impressed by how these new swanky computers can handle well under pressure... Tell me about it. I have 295 and a core i7 in a case the size of a loaf of bread. If it was a prescott and a 7950GX2, there'd me a mushroom cloud over my house after 2 mins of any newer game at higher rez' Some people can hate on it as much as they want, some of the credit for this does go to Vista, and its capacity to handle higher processing demands and Dx10 games mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Oh, crap. I forgot about the PSU demands. Sabre, at your resolution, just get a 4770 512MB and call it a day. Its GPU is actually 40nm, not the 45nm that I initially believed it was, and it barely draws 80W (80 watts/12 volts=6.67 amps) so there'd no extra expense involved. Like I said, you wouldn't notice much of a difference in performance because of the 4770's higher clockspeed. Oh, and you do get a (sort of) bonus by combining that motherboard, which features an integrated ATI GPU, with an ATI video card. It's called Hybrid Crossfire, which combines the power of both GPUs. I'll admit that I don't know much about it, though. I would theorize, however, that if the motherboard GPU is that much weaker than the one in the video card, which in this case it definitely would be, it might actually degrade the overall video performance. It'd definitely be worth checking out, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabretooth Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Nah, I checked out the Crossfire, the HD 3200 is only compatible with HD 3450 or and one other card that's weaker. In any case, it's not recommended. So I can jack in a 4770 without requiring a PSU upgrade? This thingie can work with a measly 400 W of power, you say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 It should be able to, yes. It's performance should also be quite adequate at your resolution. It supposedly overclocks well, too. You may not be interested in that feature right now, but you might later on when the card gets older and doesn't perform as well with newer games, or if you end up getting a higher-resolution monitor down the line. ATI's drivers also feature built-in overclocking, up to a certain point. Told you that I didn't know very much about Hybrid Crossfire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabretooth Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Alrighty then, I think the 4770 should be it, unless some other card drops down to $100-ish by year-end. >_> Sure I shouldn't be looking at nVidia? Because that's what I was actually curious about, I've no idea about what they're doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 You'll pay more for the same level of performance. Nvidia's main advantages lie with CUDA which helps give it awesome (as in 2x) F@H performance when compared to ATI, Phys-X, which is available on a few titles but hasn't really taken off yet because it's an Nvidia exclusive and most game developers aren't going to use the resources to support something that isn't an industry standard, and drivers that are arguably easier to use. The only reason that I chose Nvdia for my current build was because I found two 9600 GSO 768MB cards for $40.00 apiece and a 780i SLI motherboard for $116.00. Phys-X, F@H performance and a driver interface that I'm used to are just nice bonuses. For around $100.00, ATI rules the roost when it comes to getting the most bang for the buck. If you like Nvidia, though, look around for an 8800 GTS 512MB, 9800GTX 512MB, 98000GTX+ 512MB or a GTS 250 512MB. They're all pretty much the same card and in he same performance category as the 4770/4850. For slightly less performance you could try an 8800GT or 9800GT. Whether or not they will run on that 400W PSU of yours, I don't know, but I believe that they draw a little less power than the 4850. I still think that the 4770 would be your best bet, though, because I know that it would run on it. Its performance per Watt is probably the best of any video card on the market right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingerhs Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 ok, so i'm looking to start a new build for my next computer (the old one is up for sale now). normally, i'm not one to look for advise in this particular area, but i managed to get myself a pretty good deal by trading a 500GB WD Caviar Black for a small-form factor ATX case (in particular, its a Shuttle, although i forgot the model number). i'm probably going to use it since i need something more portable this time around for a number of reasons (such as switching residences, LAN parties, etc). now, i'm aware that i need a mini ATX factor board and so on, but i do have a couple of quick questions: 1. is there a way i can get my hands on a power supply that's designed for small form factors (ie, shorter cables, smaller size, etc) that can also put out big power?? 2. i'm also concerned with cooling because of the thermal properties of a smaller case. should i stick with the stock coolers for whatever CPU i use, or is there something better (and noise is not a factor)?? and finally, i'm aiming to have all the parts ordered probably in November so i can take advantage of the W7 launch, the Radeon 58xx launch, and the Intel Core i5/i7 launch. the problem right now is that i'm not really wanting to go Intel (my heart aches at the thought), and i'm not convinced that a PII 940 BE is going to cut it for future proofing. given AMD's track record of supporting the AM2/AM2+ Socket, though, i'm wondering if there wouldn't be some merit in going AMD with an AM3 board and upgrading to the latest and greatest AMD has when it comes out. basically, should i commit to an AMD platform with reduced performance with the inent of upgrading later, or should i just give in and go Intel and get the high end performance i want right now?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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