Favorite K1 Girls

[Gurges-Ahter]

I can understand that, Melly. I'm a huge Visas fanboy despite everyone else saying she's pointless and/or underdeveloped. And for the record, I don't dislike Bao-Dur; I just wanted more from his character.

[JCarter426]

Well, I did have a nice post all typed up but the forums ate it, must be the Darth Nihilus of forums.

Same here! (other topic) Grr...

 

That's because at one time, she was cut entirely from the game, (or so I've heard) under the pretense that she was "too much content for female character vs. male characters" they can't fool me it was because she's a lesbian. But cutting her out left problems in the plot so she was put back in the half-arsed way we see now, with her romance gutted and difficult to trigger (what is there can be triggered though, with some effort and careful timing).

Hmm...I don't think she was cut from the game.= at any point. They had in mind a Cathar Jedi character from the start (named Bastila Shan, originally ). I get the feeling that she was added in at the last minute, so they didn't have time to give her enough dialogue or make sure that her dialogue actually happens in the game. That, and they probably figured about a third of the players would kill her, so they thought "Meh...forget the catwoman; give the line to Bastila or Jolee".

 

I would have to say that she was easy to redeem in the first place because she wanted to be, but was afraid to go back for fear of being punished.

Eh...not buying it. I'm sure you're right, but what's in the game doesn't really explain it well enough for me. She just goes from full-on DS to full-on LS in an instant. And you can make her go back to DS as well, just buy saying a few words. If they'd drawn it out, more like the redemptions/corruptions in K2, maybe then I could buy it (though K2 had its flaws in this area as well; case in point Visas' rapid redemption and Bao-Dur's swift seduction).

 

If I had been in charge (which is a recurrent fantasy of mine ), I would have introduced Juhani on Taris, as a slave, and show it to the player instead of just having them hear stories about it. Over time she could slowly fall to the dark side, until lashing out at the player when they first start their Jedi trials. And of course the player's final test is to go find Juhani and bring her back to the light, at which point they can redeem her or kill her. The choice has a whole lot more meaning when you actually know who the character is; right now, she's just some random cat-woman who tried to kill you. I don't like people who try to kill me, not in general. But if that cat-woman were my friend, then I might try my best to save her.

 

(Side note: I don't really like the notion of the player being able to redeem everyone and their cousin by having a nice chat...but yea, this is a BioWare game we're talking about ).

 

Anyway, what I loved about her, and Yuthura if you talk to her on Dantooine, is that they show that coming back to the light and staying there isn't easy. That's one of the things that's always annoyed me about Bastila's storyline is that you never got to talk to her post redemption.

Yeah, Bastila wasn't properly developed either. Though she makes up for it in other areas, since she's a major character and gets about 5x as many lines as Juhani, allowing for more character development (not enough...but more). In any case, I still say

 

Actually, you did ask for her life story.

Yeah, but she kept on begging me to ask! I just did it so she'd shut up about it.

 

They're right, you really are Darth Carterious aren't you?

Yes.

 

Gurges-Ahter, I'm a raving Bao fangirl, we're a crazy lot and you can't talk sense into us. I guess I just see more than most in Bao, maybe because I drag him everywhere with me. Besides he has the best line in the entire game IMHO, the one in my sig.

Eh...I think Bao-Dur has the same problem: the writers just forgot about him after he joins the party. Bao-Dur does have some really great lines, though. He doesn't talk often...but when he does, he makes his words mean something. Maybe that's what Obsidian was going for...I don't know. I'm more inclined to believe that one of the writers just came up with Bao-Dur on a whim and started throwing stuff in last-minute.

 

Oh, and for the record, I like Bao more than Juhani. He had a lot more in terms of character development (with all his guilt over Malachor). Though his Jedi training didn't make a bit of sense (light or dark), and was rushed.

[Melly]

Hmm...I don't think she was cut from the game.= at any point. They had in mind a Cathar Jedi character from the start (named Bastila Shan, originally ). I get the feeling that she was added in at the last minute, so they didn't have time to give her enough dialogue or make sure that her dialogue actually happens in the game. That, and they probably figured about a third of the players would kill her, so they thought "Meh...forget the catwoman; give the line to Bastila or Jolee".

Well, that's just what I've heard on the forums over the years, that she was cut, and then put back in the game in a slap dash way at the last minute. *shrug*

 

Eh...not buying it. I'm sure you're right, but what's in the game doesn't really explain it well enough for me. She just goes from full-on DS to full-on LS in an instant. And you can make her go back to DS as well, just buy saying a few words.

Next time you play, really watch her in the scene in the grove after you beat her down. She's defeated in more than just battle, and trying to convince herself she was evil. She never was really. You may never have heard this, because it's a little difficult to trigger, but she says later: "That I could convince myself that by injuring my master I became a great force of evil in the galaxy. For my pride, my hubris." I think if one of the masters had actually gone out there and talked to her after the incident with the Quatra she would have come back with one of them (as long as it wasn't Vrook ), not just because the PC chatted her up.

 

(Side note: I don't really like the notion of the player being able to redeem everyone and their cousin by having a nice chat...but yea, this is a BioWare game we're talking about ).

Oh, neither do I. I think this is the appeal of the character Valen in HotU to me, in that while he's the romance option in that game, it was the Seer that started him on his path to redemption, not the PC. And the Seer didn't even say anything to him!

 

Yeah, Bastila wasn't properly developed either. Though she makes up for it in other areas, since she's a major character and gets about 5x as many lines as Juhani, allowing for more character development (not enough...but more). In any case, I still say

Juhani IMO is a lot like Bao- a woman of action not words. She even tells you that she had trouble making friends and finds the ease in which you accept her (if you do so) to be different than what she's used to. I get the feeling the PC was the only one she ever really talked to on the ship, because of that.

 

Yeah, but she kept on begging me to ask! I just did it so she'd shut up about it.

Did she? The only way she would is if you actually took her with you.

 

He doesn't talk often...but when he does, he makes his words mean something. Maybe that's what Obsidian was going for...I don't know.

I think it was. Bao always struck me as a man of action not words, is the 'strong silent type'. He fit well with my Exile, cause she's kinda the same way.

 

Though his Jedi training didn't make a bit of sense (light or dark), and was rushed.

Why didn't you think his Jedi training made any sense? And it was originally planned for a training sequence in which you taught him lightsaber forms, deflect blaster bolts from Remote, etc, but it was cut probably due to time. *shakes fist at LucasArts**

 

Anyway, it's late so I hope that made at least some measure sense.

[JCarter426]

Bah! Forum troubles again...not letting me quote anything.

 

Anyway...hope you all can understand this...

 

#1: Eh...people on forums tell tales. I've also heard that Yuthura was originally meant to be a party member who joined on Sleheyron (from multiple, individual sources), but this has been debunked by...Mr Gaider, I believe it was; Sleheyron was long cut before Yuthura, and she was never meant to be any more than she was.

 

#2: Yeah, I've heard that (been a while, but I remember the line about her hubris ). Like I said, you're probably right, but it still feels really sudden and rushed to me.

 

#3: *looks up, sees references fly by* But I follow. In a way you could compare that situation to the Exile, Atton, and Kreia; which one of them truly redeems Atton? Kreia's the one who makes him face his past, and shows him that the only one who truly held him was Atton. All the Exile can do is get in the way and cause Atton's fall.

 

#4: Yeah, I'm sure she was all of those...I just wish we'd get to see it in the game, as we do with Bao-Dur (albeit briefly).

 

[...]

 

My thoughts as well. Another little annoying oddity about K1 (no one talks to anyone except the PC), but it doesn't show as much here, since Juhani wouldn't talk to anyone. So in a way this is one of Juhani's strong suits. Zaalbar's too (though I have other issues with him...his lack of personality, for instance ).

 

#5: Hey, a Jedi party member is a Jedi party member.

 

#6: I'll admit it; the more I play K2, the more I like Bao-dur.

 

Oh, and a corollary to my theory about how some writer just managed to sneak Bao-dur in...he doesn't even show up in the Dxun cutscene when your whole party gathers. Neither do the droids, oddly enough. Perhaps they were at the HK factory by then...hmm... (wink wink )

 

#7:

 

But even so, it just doesn't make sense to me. Especially if you never talked to Brianna about him (how he was the key to saving Telos, how he has a bond with machines, yada yada yada). His Force potential just seems to come out of nowhere (part of me is convinced the devs were trying to say that anyone could learn the ways of the Force). And it was really sudden, too; only three conversations and he's either a Jedi Guardian or some Darth Maul wannabe. I think it was a little rushed, probably because they never had a chance to refine the influence system.

 

And it's even funnier because the whole training scene was cut; there aren't any voiceovers,so he just stares at you absent-mindedly while you ramble on about the Force.

 

Hope that made sense.

[Melly]

His Force potential just seems to come out of nowhere (part of me is convinced the devs were trying to say that anyone could learn the ways of the Force).

 

Not really. His affinity for machines and fixing things, that he's so damn good at it, is a sign of Force sensitivity.

 

As for the rest let's just agree to disagree, otherwise this will just go round and round until I go crazy.

[JCarter426]

Not really. His affinity for machines and fixing things, that he's so damn good at it, is a sign of Force sensitivity.

Yeah, if you talk to Brianna it's a bit clearer. But only a bit.

 

As for the rest let's just agree to disagree, otherwise this will just go round and round until I go crazy.

Yeah.

 

Oh, and the forum problems seem to have been resolved.