Achilles Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 This is an evolution thread. If you want to have a religion vs. science discussion, I suggest either creating something here or in Kavar's Corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderWiggin Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 This was probably a scam, it wouldn't be the first time... What? It was probably a scam? But someone growing 2 inches rapidly because someone prayed for height is not? You jest, sir. Does the fact that human beings have been struck by lightning during the day mean that you will "probably" be struck by lightning today? You're welcome to make whatever baseless accusations you would like, however if you would like to enjoy being taken seriously, you might want to consider aiming just a tad bit higher with your arguments. He doesn't know how to enjoy being taken seriously - It's never happened before. Really? How? If it is not apparent to you, please place your foot into a block of wet cement, wait a few minutes, then go for a swim. _EW_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 M@RS, I get the impression that you have a lot of opinions that you want to be able to share with others. This is precisely the place for that. The part I think you might be getting stuck on is that a forum is an exchange. In the spirit of true exchange you have to be willing to consider that your opinion might have some faults that you haven't noticed before, and as such you have to be open to other viewpoints. FWIW, I think you're running into a lot of problems here because you've adopted some faulty arguments and are brazenly insisting on defending them even though they have holes in them. Rather than hunkering down into a foxhole and insisting on fighting a losing battle, perhaps you'd have better luck approaching these subjects with a spirit of free-inquiry. It's obvious that you're a young man. No one will hold that against you so long as you don't show up with a chip on your shoulder. Most of the people posting here have been around for a while and have a solid grasp of what we're talking about. We appreciate rational discourse and well-supported arguments, even when the conclusions suggested by those arguments don't necessarily jive with our own. We'll listen to whatever you have to say if you make some effort to present arguments that make some sense. Making stuff up or insisting that you are correct without a good argument to fall back on is the quickest way to lose our attention and our respect. Just some friendly advice from someone that suspects that you have more to offer than what you've shown us thus far. Take care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderWiggin Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Just some friendly advice from someone that suspects that you have more to offer than what you've shown us thus far. Take care. Achilles is right. ( at that sentence). The reason you're getting so much flak is because you're refusing to discuss things. In a discussion forum. _EW_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M@RS Posted June 26, 2008 Author Share Posted June 26, 2008 M@RS, I get the impression that you have a lot of opinions that you want to be able to share with others. This is precisely the place for that. The part I think you might be getting stuck on is that a forum is an exchange. In the spirit of true exchange you have to be willing to consider that your opinion might have some faults that you haven't noticed before, and as such you have to be open to other viewpoints. FWIW, I think you're running into a lot of problems here because you've adopted some faulty arguments and are brazenly insisting on defending them even though they have holes in them. Rather than hunkering down into a foxhole and insisting on fighting a losing battle, perhaps you'd have better luck approaching these subjects with a spirit of free-inquiry. It's obvious that you're a young man. No one will hold that against you so long as you don't show up with a chip on your shoulder. Most of the people posting here have been around for a while and have a solid grasp of what we're talking about. We appreciate rational discourse and well-supported arguments, even when the conclusions suggested by those arguments don't necessarily jive with our own. We'll listen to whatever you have to say if you make some effort to present arguments that make some sense. Making stuff up or insisting that you are correct without a good argument to fall back on is the quickest way to lose our attention and our respect. Just some friendly advice from someone that suspects that you have more to offer than what you've shown us thus far. Take care. I will take that advice, I'm sorry, I'm okay at debating at school, so I thought I'd give it a go, someone I know told me that there's an art at not looking like an idiot when you write something, I need to master that art Take Care I'll take a break from this, I haven't slept for a couple of days I look like this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voxxi Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 seeds evolve into plans man. thats proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M@RS Posted June 26, 2008 Author Share Posted June 26, 2008 Actually, they grow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoxStar Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 Because there is, a little off topic, but I've seen people get out of wheelchairs who with the doctor's help had no chance of walking again, you telling me they were lying and sat in a wheelchair for 20 years? Please, House fixed that one guy in less than an hour, with commercial breaks! But in all seriousness, there is no way Hovind would EVER give that prize away. Evolution in and of itself will never be able to be accepted by certain individuals, even with the innumerable amounts of evidence, because opponents will always find something wrong with it. Scientists are extremely competitive and oftentimes extremely hostile toward others researching the same thing. Religious people feel that scientists are stepping on their toes because they believe science is nearing the theological/religious border. As a result, many religious leaders are acting hostile toward these scientists and finding minute flaws to obsess over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 Evolution in and of itself will never be able to be accepted by certain individuals, even with the innumerable amounts of evidence, because opponents will always find something wrong with it.I find it incredibly interesting how creationists are terribly rigorous with their standards of acceptance for the scientific Theory of Evolution (though seemingly not for gravity, electricity, etc), but not the least bit rigorous when it comes to creationism or religion in general. Seems a bit unfair that one set of ideas has to jump through an infinite number of moving goals posts while another doesn't have to provide any evidence at all. What's worse is that these people insist on being taken seriously as critical thinkers. Nice, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderWiggin Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 Please, House fixed that one guy in less than an hour, with commercial breaks! So really it was 43 minutes. Brilliant point _EW_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Det. Bart Lasiter Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 Please, House fixed that one guy in less than an hour, with commercial breaks!Actually, he solved it like half an hour but Cuddy was all "No you need proof to give him cortisol blah blah blah I'm barren blah blah" and then she gave him the shot as he was leaving but didn't tell House until a few episodes later :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderWiggin Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 Actually, he solved it like half an hour but Cuddy was all "No you need proof to give him cortisol blah blah blah I'm barren blah blah" and then she gave him the shot as he was leaving but didn't tell House until a few episodes later :/ That's about the only right thing she said, too. _EW_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoxStar Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 Proof of my point that certain individuals in society (who may or may not have government positions) will never accept evolution even with overwhelming evidence. http://arstechnica.com/articles/culture/conservapedias-evolutionary-foibles.ars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Det. Bart Lasiter Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 Proof of my point that certain individuals in society (who may or may not have government positions) will never accept evolution even with overwhelming evidence. http://arstechnica.com/articles/culture/conservapedias-evolutionary-foibles.ars If Jesus himself came down and told these people that evolution was true they'd say he betrayed god and reject him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nedak Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 Here is something local for me http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/363263_oddfish16.html Because there is, a little off topic, but I've seen people get out of wheelchairs who with the doctor's help had no chance of walking again, you telling me they were lying and sat in a wheelchair for 20 years? There could be many things that contribute to that. The main is willpower. If god fixes people that are in wheel chairs and people with bad limbs then why doesn't he fix amputees or people with AIDS or flesh eating diseases? Now back on topic, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M@RS Posted August 10, 2008 Author Share Posted August 10, 2008 Okay, I'm not totally getting back in the fray, but here's a quick post. So, evolution says that there was a small dot with everything in the universe (meaning: single sentence, a.k.a "Let there be...") The dot was spinning then, it blew up and galaxies, planets, stars, ect. formed. Earth just happened to float to the one spot where life could live, then it started raining...it rained for millions of years, creating oceans, in the water was a mixture of complex chemicals. The chemicals evolved into the first life, basically a cell, that cell somehow evolved and formed two cells. They just happened to be able to reproduce...and slowly over millions of years it evolved to what we are today... now, say I said that I saw a girl kiss a frog and smoke appeared, and a prince walked out of the smoke (you'd say that it's a fairy tale right?) but, if the frog slowly evolved to a man, now that's "science" NOTE: If I explained something wrong when talking about evolution, please tell me and I'll fix it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Dravis Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Well, that's called abiogenesis and not evolution, for one. Second, the timescales you're thinking of are huge. It's helpful to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderWiggin Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Well, that's called abiogenesis and not evolution, for one. Second, the timescales you're thinking of are huge. It's helpful to remember that. Third of all, wot? What are you trying to prove, M@RS? _EW_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M@RS Posted August 10, 2008 Author Share Posted August 10, 2008 That evolution is a joke, and that the earth is not millions of years old... which I would like to talk about, how old is the earth really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderWiggin Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 That evolution is a joke, and that the earth is not millions of years old... which I would like to talk about, how old is the earth really? So instead, you find it easier to believe that all of the sudden the earth just appeared as-is? The earth is ~4.54 billion years old. _EW_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M@RS Posted August 10, 2008 Author Share Posted August 10, 2008 Yes, the moon becomes further from the earth at a rate of a couple of inches a year, if that's true, then the earth can't be millions of years old, because if it was the moona nd earth would be touching...so that's what happened to the dinosaurs, they got mooned to death NOTE: I don't want this to turn into an argument where we're at each other's throats, like last time, I'd prefer to politely talk about it with light-hearted humor... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderWiggin Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Yes, the moon becomes further from the earth at a rate of a couple of inches a year, if that's true, then the earth can't be millions of years old, because if it was the moona nd earth would be touching...so that's what happened to the dinosaurs, they got mooned to death NOTE: I don't want this to turn into an argument where we're at each other's throats, like last time, I'd prefer to politely talk about it with light-hearted humor... If the moon is moving further away then it wouldn't be touching. They're opposite things. Could we please get a source as to how much the moon actually moves away from the earth? Furthermore, the Senate Chambers are for serious discussion only. We can be civil, but if you'd like humor, go over to the RC forums or somesuch. _EW_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M@RS Posted August 10, 2008 Author Share Posted August 10, 2008 I'm not sure how you'll take this but here's a forum talking about it... and I was wrong, the moon is leaving at about an centimeter a year not an inch... if the moon is moving away that means it was a lot closer, any link I found talking about it said or asked if the moon was moving at a constant speed, so the earth can't be really old there's also the comets, scientists said that all of the stuff in a comet would all break apart in about 10,000 years, if that's true, why do we still have comets? could it be that the earth is less than 10,000 years old? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Dravis Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Your talk about the distance from the Earth to Moon as if it were a linearly increasing distance. It's not. What happens is that the Earth's surface rotates faster than the Moon's orbit. Since this is the case, it drags the tidal bulges around in front of the Moon's position. This at once slows the rotation of the Earth (by 15 microseconds per year currently) and transfers angular momentum to the moon, which accelerates and consequently moves away from the Earth (38mm per year currently). The Moon's acceleration away from the Earth will continuously decrease until the Earth stops rotating with respect to the Moon (it becomes "tidal locked"), and thereafter the size of the Moon's orbit will decrease once again. It's easy to mistake an easily quoted figure for the whole truth, but it all too often is only a small part of the picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M@RS Posted August 10, 2008 Author Share Posted August 10, 2008 my mistake what about the comets then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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