Role Playing and OJP

[ZerooftheFour]

So we got 1.2 out yeah!

 

But I notice that OJP is predominantly filled with RP. I have no problems with OJP having RPers on it. In fact I approve that OJP should have more RPers, It is a stepping stone for what really matters, Team FFA and Siege. So I say that we should use the mass amounts of Role Players as a foundation. We have to try to feed the RPers with stuff such as more emotes, and maybe add Chat Channels. Just adding 2 simple thoughts that may increase the RP population of OJP, which most likely increase the over all population of OJP and give us more TFFAers in the possess and make OJP a good all around mod for every type of JKA player. I am not saying add abuse admin commands, just stuff that makes RPers like OJP more, without turn offs to TFFAers.

 

Discuss whether its a good idea to attract RPers or not.

And whether we should feed them some new stuff for 1.3.

[Tanqexe]

I don't really mind the RP population (except when they think that they should have like 99999999999999 skill points so everyone's OVAR 9000 and kinda ruin the more fun possibility of using lower skill point pools). Very ambivalent about adding emotes. I'm more partial towards working on main gameplay features first and leaving RP stuff for the very, very last, if people really want it that badly. New emotes = need to make new animations. I'm willing to make completely new ones if there's a considerable demand, but priority for me on that front is making stances that are minimally obstructive in TrueView. Make a poll.

[ZerooftheFour]

The whole idea that I was presenting was to add emotes that were already in game just need a command for them, I guess what I am trying to say is emotes that use an exciting animation. I am not sure how hard it be for Die, but I think he had emotes at one point... Anyways the Idea was to try and please the RPers first in order to gain a foundation of gamers. I just wanna keep the RPers happy with the Mod and know that they are being looked after. However I do agree that I want balance/bug fixes the most. But I think if we can pull a nice somewhat quicky feature for them they would be more satisfied and play more.

 

I dont know... I want the whole general OJP Population to grow. I mean... my logic is whats a mod if you don't have people to play it, I want people to play and experience OJP.

[[Alpha]-0mega-]

The RP server ''regulars'' try to impose limits on what you can do with your OVER NINETHOUUUUSAAAND skillpoints.

 

For example: If you are new, they'll say ''add Initiate to your name, and only use this and that''.

 

If everybody plays along the imba skillsettings won't matter.

 

What DOES ruin the game though, is infinite force (Force regentime 0), battles take forever because for one: the RP servers r laggeh, and two: They keep jumping away when they're losing. And the obvious ones: Dark Rage & Lightning spam till infinity.

 

Aside of that some RP servers are quite nice. I Rp-ed in one of them, and though they (most of the rp-ers) suck at combat (I killed their masters and Knights with ease, which are allowed to have more skillpoints used, and as such, more styles and a bigger dodgepool), they're open to reason (to a certain degree.)

 

For example: I suggested that they KICK people down, to defeat them in a sparring match, rather than slice their heads off and act like nothing happened. They accepted.

[Tanqexe]

Zero:

 

I know what you mean about growing the OJP population. It's something I'm sure all of us are keen on doing, and seeing the flood of people and servers in the past week or so (even though I haven't really been able to play) has been very vitalizing.

 

I'm just concerned about using existing emotes because, well, chances are someone else has already implemented that (JAplus?), and we wouldn't really be making a worthy addition to the system we have. Like I said, if there is a consensus on the matter, then I can help with working on a couple quick and dirty ones, since I'm in the process of making a stance package. Hence my suggestion of having a poll. I'm not sure how hard it is for Darth to add in emotes, either, but my guess is that it's just creating a function that call up the enum of the animation sequence in _humanoid.gla whenever you press a designated bound key. Probably not as much of a headache as what Darth's dealing with in terms of integrating a physics engine (Oh goodness I hope he'll eventually be successful ).

 

 

Alpha:

 

To reiterate, I don't mind the RP community with the exception of a minority of situations where high skill points are abused (and this probably irks RPers as well). Maybe my phrasing wasn't succinct enough for that to come across. In fact, I feel the RPers are much more of the amiable sort in general than the typical person coming in for FFA (that's not saying that the majority of the people coming in to play FFA are bad or anything).

 

The use of extremely fast Forceregentime, Dodgeregentime, or anything of the sort is something that's up to the GM; in the right RP hands, i.e. not some prepubscent who wants to be invincible and spam away to the annoyance of others, these things don't really matter as much compared to the quality of RP. They'd be responsible enough to understand not to abuse these features, and the GM does have jurisdiction. I do feel, though, that we should think about standardizing guidelines over what settings overall would provide the best RP environment for the RPers.

 

Skill in combat isn't as relevant in RP servers, so I don't know why you had to make it a point in your post, really. For one thing, some of the new RP servers are set by people just getting into OJP - to beat on them as if it were the same situation in FFA is almost like abuse, especially since their goal is to integrate fighting as part of their RP narrative rather than just plain cutthroat fighting in FFA. In fact, a veteran FFA duelist losing on purpose sometimes helps better the narrative, rather than it just being a monotonous continuous string of victories just because one person knows the saber system better - that makes for horrible RP unless done right. Their objective is completely different from ours in the FFA/CTF/whathaveyous realm (a statement of the obvious, but meh).

 

When I tried out RPing on a server a long while ago, I made the same suggestion about knockdowns in general. That could be one of the bullet points in a proposed guideline.

[[Alpha]-0mega-]

Skill in combat isn't as relevant in RP servers, so I don't know why you had to make it a point in your post, really. For one thing, some of the new RP servers are set by people just getting into OJP - to beat on them as if it were the same situation in FFA is almost like abuse, especially since their goal is to integrate fighting as part of their RP narrative rather than just plain cutthroat fighting in FFA. In fact, a veteran FFA duelist losing on purpose sometimes helps better the narrative, rather than it just being a monotonous continuous string of victories just because one person knows the saber system better - that makes for horrible RP unless done right. Their objective is completely different from ours in the FFA/CTF/whathaveyous realm (a statement of the obvious, but meh).

 

That is open for discussion.

 

Combat-Wise:

I think that Skill should be rewarded. Of course, *everyone* can ''act'' like all Initiates suck, and all Knights are supreme and kill you with ease, but that's what in my idea, the point restrictions are for, that already puts a good player at a disadvantage, as I witnessed that one of the ''masters'' would drain my DP in 3 hits because of Djem-So. (55 dp with Shii-Cho vs. 100+ dp with Djem-So / Makashi etc.) And say, if it is not relevant, then why do all those rp-ers brag about their JA+ skills? Why do the admins say they want to send you on missions on different maps?

NPC's do not RP and are one of the main causes of death of many rp-ers.

 

As one other person put it when I fought him in RP:

"Finally someone who is good, if not better than me to fight against. These fights look Epic".

Now I assume that Epic is better than *Rp-er Killed Random person in 1 to 5 hit(s)* RP-er Says: "^3I kick you to the floor after dodging your slash ^2Had enough yet?"

 

As for that, I have yet to see anyone in the RP server I frequently visit ''lose on purpose'', though one guy rp-ed it ''I lost on purpose to get rid of my anger'' he messaged me privately afterwards ''I sux in this game lolz".

After which, guess what. I, the INITIATE, started teaching him, out of character.

 

Combat could be integrated in RP with ease, rather than just using it to have some visuals for the narrative. Allowing better players (of course their ability to RP should matter as well) to train worse players. Then, aside of ''acting'' like their skills increase, they would *actually* increase.

 

This could in turn allow for more ''epic'' combat in which knockdowns are the rule and not the exception, because far too many RP-ers now just jump away if they get low Dodge, which means it is either suicide to try and kick them (Since they'll just slash you before you can run to them.), or that you are ''forced'' to kill them because they simply don't give up, they decide to run around ''to keep you on your feet'', or you hit them whilst they're in mid air. (whilst they get their head removed in one swift hit), many also don't even know how to notice that someone is about to die.

 

But maybe it's just me and my idea of a world of RP and OJP that is different to yours and maybe others as well.

 

I support free-form storylines more than preset ones, as it allows everyone to develop rather than having to wait a year before promoting from Initiate to Padawan.

[The Unbeholden]

Ah yes the Rpers. People have for a long time been looking for a Role Playing star wars game. unfortunately there is no Starwars game like that. there are RPG that allow some role playing but it really doesn't quench the thirst unless your playing with a living human being... so the Rpers constantly look for the fix, OJP does provide that for a pretty good RP experience. Ive seen more RPers using OJP.

 

Im all up for more RP support. as it could make a ground base of loyal RP supporters which can be a good thing for the mod, considering that most Rpers are really hard core star wars fans, that I bet are forum members to any and every stars wars forum on the internet's. Which means spreading the word on the mod pretty far.

 

I'm speaking from personal experience here

[TheJorus]

JKA has animations ready for emotes. For example sitting on chair and so on.

Imo there should also be little boost to meleeing which disables taking guns and sabers. It'd be fun to RP with melee instead of guns and sabers always

 

I support RPing, was it any mod.

[Tanqexe]

-0mega-;2483453']That is open for discussion.

 

Combat-Wise:

I think that Skill should be rewarded. Of course, *everyone* can ''act'' like all Initiates suck, and all Knights are supreme and kill you with ease, but that's what in my idea, the point restrictions are for, that already puts a good player at a disadvantage, as I witnessed that one of the ''masters'' would drain my DP in 3 hits because of Djem-So. (55 dp with Shii-Cho vs. 100+ dp with Djem-So / Makashi etc.) And say, if it is not relevant, then why do all those rp-ers brag about their JA+ skills? Why do the admins say they want to send you on missions on different maps?

NPC's do not RP and are one of the main causes of death of many rp-ers.

 

Individual skill is rewarded in OJP because of efforts to minimize randomized outcomes of combat. You're taking a strawman argument here assuming that I don't think skill matters in RP. Sorry, but that's not what I think. What I stated:

 

Skill in combat isn't as relevant in RP servers

 

That single adverb changes the entire context of the statement. For one, a lot of these guys do not know the full extent of the system and have not had the experience in using it, as they're just starting out, relatively speaking. Second, good RP comes first, skill in a fight comes second - that doesn't mean that skill is irrelevant, just that being a good RPer is more than about fighting well.

 

As for that, I have yet to see anyone in the RP server I frequently visit ''lose on purpose'', though one guy rp-ed it ''I lost on purpose to get rid of my anger'' he messaged me privately afterwards ''I sux in this game lolz".

After which, guess what. I, the INITIATE, started teaching him, out of character.

 

Uh, that's because none of those guys are OJP veterans. I hold back when fighting new players, as do Max and Jon, so that they'd be more encouraged to explore the saber system more. In addition, by playing at a more even level with them, they can get a feeling for how epic fights can get as they become more experienced. Going all out (or close to it) on someone who's just getting into a system is like stealing candy from a baby - it's easy, anyone even remotely skilled can do it, but it's not cool, to any degree.

 

Combat could be integrated in RP with ease, rather than just using it to have some visuals for the narrative. Allowing better players (of course their ability to RP should matter as well) to train worse players. Then, aside of ''acting'' like their skills increase, they would *actually* increase.

 

Training can be done outside of an RP environment/context if the GM so chooses. That would be most fair, as it takes the entire established hierarchy out of the equation. Hell, if any RP group wishes to get more out of the OJP system for their RP, the OJP team can set up a time to train everyone. Remember, most of these guys RPing are relatively new to OJP, but they've probably had an established hierarchy before moving over - interjecting into that hierarchy (which goes more like Masters/knights training initiates/padawans) just because you're more experienced and highly skilled in FFA can be rather rude. But that, again, is up to the individual RP groups and how they want to establish their rules.

 

Again, I respect the amount of RP that these Knight and Master level players have had to experience before attaining that rank. Just because they've moved over into a new combat system and are for the most part not used to/don't know all of the tricks and techniques as second nature should not detract from that in any way - including being pwned by an Initiate level player who in reality has been playing OJP for much longer than the rest of them have.

 

Again, this is something that the RP community and the core OJP community can brainstorm about.

 

This could in turn allow for more ''epic'' combat in which knockdowns are the rule and not the exception, because far too many RP-ers now just jump away if they get low Dodge, which means it is either suicide to try and kick them (Since they'll just slash you before you can run to them.), or that you are ''forced'' to kill them because they simply don't give up, they decide to run around ''to keep you on your feet'', or you hit them whilst they're in mid air. (whilst they get their head removed in one swift hit), many also don't even know how to notice that someone is about to die.

 

As stated in my preceding post: We can work with them to establish standard dueling guidelines that best utilize OJP's features. There has been a lack of precedence among OJP developers in catering to RPers because of our focus on enhancing and balancing combat, but that can be changed if the RP groups can get in contact with us.

 

But maybe it's just me and my idea of a world of RP and OJP that is different to yours and maybe others as well.

 

I support free-form storylines more than preset ones, as it allows everyone to develop rather than having to wait a year before promoting from Initiate to Padawan.

 

Getting repeatedly beaten because they don't know the system as well as you do isn't fair or development. That just makes them rolled up tatame mats for your morning sword practice, and they don't get as much out of it as when all of them are thoroughly trained.

 

 

A free form storyline is all nice and stuff in theory, under the assumption that all parties are equally knowledgeable in the system. That is not the case, thus a free form storyline is unfair to the veteran RPers. In fact, in the current conditions where the higher level RPers have not had extensive experience in the combat system, a free form storyline only favors people who have the advantage of knowing more. The fact that a Knight level player doesn't really know how the system works yet doesn't mean that they're inferior to you, just that they're not as experienced in the current "rule set" that they've just moved over to.

 

Again: one can have a lot of skill as an Initiate, but being an Initiate assumes also that you're just getting into the hang of things, not a full on self-appointed master of saber combat. It would also be unfair if someone who knows more about the saber system as an Initiate to shoot through the ranks because they know the system and the others not so much - other people have had to RP for a long time to attain a rank - and when they do it's more rewarding that way. However, that is, again, up to the groups to determine their guidelines.

 

We're here to help them better utilize OJP for their purposes, not to usurp their hierarchy simply because we've been using this system longer than they have.

 

JKA has animations ready for emotes. For example sitting on chair and so on.

Imo there should also be little boost to meleeing which disables taking guns and sabers. It'd be fun to RP with melee instead of guns and sabers always

 

I support RPing, was it any mod.

 

Yeah, JKA does have a lot already within its default anims. The simple stuff, we don't need to reinvent the wheel for - was thinking about more unique emotes that RPers may want. We don't really want to be a JA+ redux and have emotes that they already have. It'll add a little more flavor for OJP RP.

 

Melee bypasses Dodge and directly affects health, that makes it pretty deadly already in the hands of someone skilled. The punching animation is pretty sissy, though - might have to change that.

[Maxstate]

As Tanq said, I tend to let myself die a lot when there are new players around just to have them learn how to play the game. If they are willing, and have a proper reason to not have read the manual, or they have and still don't get it, I'll teach them. Them being new players. This will not only ensure that they'll have a much better time playing, seeing as how they actually will know how to play and won't get cut down or shot by the next best 'tardo, but this will also ensure that you yourself will have a better game.

 

If the new player actually poses a challenge, he stops being a new player and starts being a player to be reckoned with. This maximizes his or her in-game potential by increasing the fun factor on both sides.

 

Letting people kill me is not just to teach them. Sometimes I do it to prove a point. A lot of new players consider some of us to be virtually indestructible without bringing explosives to the fight. Allowing them to strike through my dodge and kill me on a few occasions to prove that they can, will be a huge psychological boost to their learning process. Same goes for teaching them how to deflect and letting them kill me with it.

 

With that said, I think Role-playing is a bunch of bison diarrhea. Its spin-offs are the primary source of death for the JKA community, and allowing it to come back full-circle is not going to bode well for the real FFA-type player. I have always been opposed to them, even when the bigger part of the team noted that the playercount that would come of it would persuade me. I have never liked role-players in general because they take the role-playing part of role-playing game too seriously. For a mod that will hinge on several key components of a well-known role-playing game, I wish not to give newcomers the wrong impression of what we are.

 

Though, there is something very mild about the role-players that are currently in the playerbase. They don't mind creeping out of their servers and playing regular FFA or CTF with some of the guys. Totally out of character of course, and you would never know that they did any sorts of role-playing if it weren't for their name.

 

If that is the kind of role-player that we welcome, I will welcome them, too.

[ZerooftheFour]

Ya, I agree Max, I just hope that if we push for more RP stuff then we will hopefully attract people that desire FFA and TFFA. I am worried too that OJP might just become a strict RP mod and other players look down on it. I hope that those people on the RP servers may give TFFA a good shot. And bring there non-RP friends along. If a mod can help sustain everyones aspects of what a good mod/game should be then we should do it. I am hoping for an OJP that will bring RPers, and Organized Team Assault Players together. I would hate for OJP to only be a mod for RPers only...