Baseball 2009!

[JediAthos]

we now know the cost of a world series: 432.5 million

[Shem]

we now know the cost of a world series: 432.5 million

Exactly.

 

This is a thing I'm not happy about with baseball.

 

First. how can a team be proud that they won a World Series when they had to buy it?

 

Second, if there was a salary cap, the Yankees wouldn't have what it takes in the managerial department to win a title if that was in place like the other pro sports. Teams like the Twins would be in it every year, or would win it all as they're better managed, but don't have the resources to back it up currently.

 

What even bothered me a lot during last off season is that they were able to pick up three big names in the free agent market and were able to outbid everybody on all three names. I was already disgusted that they picked up CC and Burnett and I would have never thought they would be able to then outbid the Red Sox for Mark Teixera. When that happened, I really got sick to my stomach because that is BS as it seems like they can outbid everybody, even currently with an outrageous payroll.

 

For the time being I'm sick of how baseball is and having the Yankees win the World Series is fake. It isn't earning it, it's buying it. And until that changes, I have no respect on how this game is operated.

[Rogue Nine]

First. how can a team be proud that they won a World Series when they had to buy it?

They didn't buy the World Series, they earned it. They don't give you a trophy for signing the best players, they give you a trophy for being the best team in baseball, which is what the Yankees are.

 

Second, if there was a salary cap, the Yankees wouldn't have what it takes in the managerial department to win a title if that was in place like the other pro sports.

So the fact that Joe Girardi won NL Manager of the Year in 2006 with the Florida Marlins on a $14m payroll means he's not a good manager?

 

Teams like the Twins would be in it every year, or would win it all as they're better managed, but don't have the resources to back it up currently.

Ron Gardenhire is an amazing manager, but I don't think you can call him a better manager than Joe Girardi.

 

What even bothered me a lot during last off season is that they were able to pick up three big names in the free agent market and were able to outbid everybody on all three names. I was already disgusted that they picked up CC and Burnett and I would have never thought they would be able to then outbid the Red Sox for Mark Teixera. When that happened, I really got sick to my stomach because that is BS as it seems like they can outbid everybody, even currently with an outrageous payroll.

You can't fix baseball simply by implementing a salary cap. The NBA has a salary cap and the Lakers and Celtics still win and the Clippers and Grizzlies are still terrible. And with a salary cap comes the floor as well, meaning that the smaller market teams would be losing money and players either way.

 

For the time being I'm sick of how baseball is and having the Yankees win the World Series is fake. It isn't earning it, it's buying it. And until that changes, I have no respect on how this game is operated.

So winning games isn't earning it? They don't automatically give you the championship just because you have the greatest concentration of the best players in the game on your team. The Yankees still had to go through the Phillies, who are no pushovers themselves.

[Shem]

They didn't buy the World Series, they earned it. They don't give you a trophy for signing the best players, they give you a trophy for being the best team in baseball, which is what the Yankees are.

Because they can buy the best players.

 

 

So the fact that Joe Girardi won NL Manager of the Year in 2006 with the Florida Marlins on a $14m payroll means he's not a good manager?

The same Joe who was managing the team last season and missed the playoffs. Then they go and buy three all-stars and win the World Series. Excuse me for seeing it how it is.

 

 

Ron Gardenhire is an amazing manager, but I don't think you can call him a better manager than Joe Girardi.

Well, I wouldn't mind seeing them switch teams and see how he does with a talented team like the Yankees which again would prove my point.

 

 

You can't fix baseball simply by implementing a salary cap. The NBA has a salary cap and the Lakers and Celtics still win and the Clippers and Grizzlies are still terrible. And with a salary cap comes the floor as well, meaning that the smaller market teams would be losing money and players either way.

It still comes down to management. The Celtics had some losing seasons for many years before management turned it around. Even the Lakers had their moments not too long ago. The NBA does come more about how well a team is managed, not what team can buy the best players because of the salary cap restriction.

 

 

So winning games isn't earning it? They don't automatically give you the championship just because you have the greatest concentration of the best players in the game on your team. The Yankees still had to go through the Phillies, who are no pushovers themselves.

You're missing the point. You buy the best players, you get a team that will win games because they have the best players because they can buy them when other teams can't. When a team can outbid every team on several all-star caliber players, that's a problem. No other team in any pro sport can do that because of the restrictions that baseball doesn't have.

 

Nobody can afford players better than the Yankees. The only reason why they haven't it for 9 years is because they weren't managed as well as other clubs. I'm not just talking about the manager in the dugout, I'm talking about the front office as well. Teams have to manage way better than the Yankees just to compete with them and that has been happening. It just got to a point where we hit a recession so that teams can't even come close to getting as much talent as they used to while the Yankees are unaffected by it can just keep buying more talent until they win it.

 

The truth is the Yankees aren't as well managed as you think. Put that exact management in a mediocre market with those types of resources that comes with it and they have a losing record every year because they won't be able to manage well enough to win with the resources like the Marlins, Rays, Twins, A's, Pirates, etc.

[Mav]

First. how can a team be proud that they won a World Series when they had to buy it?

Easy, when you win, no doubt you experience several emotions, I'm sure pride is one of them. The Yankees winning solely because of their payroll is a pretty absurd assumption. I'm pretty sure they have the highest payroll ever year, yet they don't win every year. It's not like they don't have good management either; Jeter, Posada, Pettite and Rivera are all products of the Yankees farm system. They are just the old products as well, Melky Cabrera, Robinson Cano, and Brett Gardner are also all products of the Yankee farm system I believe.

[Rogue Nine]

Because they can buy the best players.

 

The same Joe who was managing the team last season and missed the playoffs. Then they go and buy three all-stars and win the World Series. Excuse me for seeing it how it is.

"You shouldn't be allowed to use the resources available to you in an attempt to win! That's just not right! Waaaaaaaaaaaah"

 

Well, I wouldn't mind seeing them switch teams and see how he does with a talented team like the Yankees which again would prove my point.

Your point is currently unprovable, so sorry if I don't buy stock in it.

 

It still comes down to management. The Celtics had some losing seasons for many years before management turned it around.

Turned it around by signing two All-Stars and they win the NBA Championship. How? They play in a big sports market and can generate the revenue to afford those players even with the cap, something smaller market teams can't do. Even with the cap, it still boils down to big market versus smaller market and more often than not, the bigger market will win.

 

You're missing the point. You buy the best players, you get a team that will win games because they have the best players because they can buy them when other teams can't. When a team can outbid every team on several all-star caliber players, that's a problem. No other team in any pro sport can do that because of the restrictions that baseball doesn't have.

Cap # parity. Also see Real Madrid. And it's not like the other clubs are spending peanuts for their players either. The Mets beat the Yankees out for Johan Santana a couple of seasons ago and they had the second highest payroll in the MLB this season at $150 million.

 

Nobody can afford players better than the Yankees. The only reason why they haven't it for 9 years is because they weren't managed as well as other clubs. I'm not just talking about the manager in the dugout, I'm talking about the front office as well.

Well, this is total garbage because Brian Cashman is one of the most widely-respected GMs in all of Major League Baseball.

 

Teams have to manage way better than the Yankees just to compete with them and that has been happening.

Well yeah like the Mets, the Red Sox, the Cubs and the Phillies spending oodles of money to get really good players too. That's how they compete with the Yankees. New York isn't the only team taking advantage of the fact there isn't a cap.

 

It just got to a point where we hit a recession so that teams can't even come close to getting as much talent as they used to while the Yankees are unaffected by it can just keep buying more talent until they win it.

Fun fact: The Yankees 2009 payroll was smaller than that of its 2008 payroll.

 

The truth is the Yankees aren't as well managed as you think. Put that exact management in a mediocre market with those types of resources that comes with it and they have a losing record every year because they won't be able to manage well enough to win with the resources like the Marlins, Rays, Twins, A's, Pirates, etc.

Uh, why would you put that exact management in a mediocre market? If Brian Cashman had to do it in a smaller market, I'm pretty darn sure he'd adjust with what he was given and put together a competitive team. The 2003 Marlins won it all and what did their management do? Hold a fire sale. That doesn't seem very smart to me.

 

But whatever, baseball is over for this year and the Yanks are the best, no matter what the haters say. Nanny nanny poo poo.

[Shem]

Easy, when you win, no doubt you experience several emotions, I'm sure pride is one of them. The Yankees winning solely because of their payroll is a pretty absurd assumption. I'm pretty sure they have the highest payroll ever year, yet they don't win every year.

Hey Mav, here is what I said earlier:

 

The only reason why they haven't it for 9 years is because they weren't managed as well as other clubs.

You see, when you have a 200 million dollar payroll, and miss the playoffs like what happened in 2008, don't you think it's a problem with management?

 

 

SOURCE:

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090408&content_id=4170640&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

 

The Yankees have a major unfair advantage. Look at the difference between them and 2nd place by itself.

 

It's not like they don't have good management either; Jeter, Posada, Pettite and Rivera are all products of the Yankees farm system. They are just the old products as well, Melky Cabrera, Robinson Cano, and Brett Gardner are also all products of the Yankee farm system I believe.

Every team has talented scouts to find talented players. Some better than others. My point is despite this is that other teams are better than the Yankees at it and are better managed than they are.

 

"You shouldn't be allowed to use the resources available to you in an attempt to win! That's just not right! Waaaaaaaaaaaah"

Nice. Maybe I'll get you a cookie so you'll feel better.

 

Your point is currently unprovable, so sorry if I don't buy stock in it.

True it will be be put to the test, but when a team can spend like the Yankees and not win a title which they have proven several times in the past helps my case. Let's say if a team like the Twins could have the Yankees resources, I would guarantee they would mop the floor with the Yankees. Not only is a team like the Twins good at finding talent, they would be able to keep it and rule baseball.

 

Turned it around by signing two All-Stars and they win the NBA Championship. How? They play in a big sports market and can generate the revenue to afford those players even with the cap, something smaller market teams can't do. Even with the cap

I guess you never heard of a team like the Cleveland Cavaliers. Oh, and for the record, they traded for Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett, they did not just sign them off the market without restrictions, something the Yankees have no idea what that's like.

 

The Mets beat the Yankees out for Johan Santana a couple of seasons ago

Not in the way you think. There is a different between signing a free agent than making a trade. The Mets just made an offer the Twins liked better. If Santana happened to have been a free agent, the Yankees would have been able to outbid them -- fact!

 

and they had the second highest payroll in the MLB this season at $150 million.

It was 135. 66 million less than what the Yankees spent. Huge different if you ask me from 1st place to 2nd place in payroll.

 

Well, this is total garbage because Brian Cashman is one of the most widely-respected GMs in all of Major League Baseball.

The only reason why he's respected is because he can put with the Steinbrenner drama. He's practically the GM by name.

 

Well yeah like the Mets, the Red Sox, the Cubs and the Phillies spending oodles of money to get really good players too. That's how they compete with the Yankees. New York isn't the only team taking advantage of the fact there isn't a cap.

Maybe it's time you actually looked at other team's payrolls for a change before speaking out.

 

1st place - Yankees - 201 mill

2nd place - Mets - 135 mill - 65 less than the Yanks

3rd place - Red Sox - 122 mill - 79 less than the Yanks

7th place - Phillies - 113 mill - 88 less than the Yanks

 

Please actually look at the numbers and see the huge gaps here, especially between first place and second place.

 

Fun fact: The Yankees 2009 payroll was smaller than that of its 2008 payroll.

And so were many teams as well. We are in a recession you know. Oh, and I'm sorry, 209 million versus 201 makes a huge difference. 8 flipping million dollars. You got me there! The sad part is that they missed the playoffs with 209 million and you don't think that's a problem with management. They can only win because they can buy the most talent. I've said this before and I'm saying it again because you don't seem to know the facts.

 

Here's another fact. If the Yankees had a $100 payroll, they would miss the playoffs every year. In fact, if the Yankees were to ever reduce their payroll by half and still win the World Series, I would actually respect them.

[Jeff]

If the Twins had the same resources as the Yankees, how would they be any better than them in your eyes?

 

I am happy at least A-Rod got his ring finally. I don't particularly like the Yankees as an organization but I like some of their players.