mur'phon Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 They A got tired of having to defend that position in every debate, and B realized that starting a civil war is unlikely to be popular in an almost pacifist country. Luckily, several of the parties in Russia is still in favor of it, so I can still enjoy politics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jae Onasi Posted May 7, 2009 Author Share Posted May 7, 2009 A lot of politicians take on the job because they really enjoy it, and if they get to the Senate, some of them actually have quite a talent for doing it. They stay in the job because they like the opportunity to influence the laws that are getting made and have an impact on the people both in their district and in the entire country. Sure, a lot of them like the money from lobbyists, too, and might have the ethics of dead flea, but I think the opportunity to have a direct say in the laws of your own government has tremendous appeal for many of these politicians, too. It's an opportunity only a fraction of a percent will ever have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Avlectus Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 ^^^True enough...however it smacks of potential vested interests of sorts. How many thieves think they are evil? How many yakuza think they are doing things out of greed? I only said they believe they are doing the right thing for the country. I didn't say that it is their primary motivation' date=' only that they think so.[/quote'] Nobody who is doing wrong actually believes they are in the wrong. I thought the SW films taught us that. Well, yeah, that's what I thought you were saying but thanks for clarification. I was not sure. Talk to some drunk politicans once, you'd be amazed at how convinced many of them are that they do the right thing. I have, thank you. And I like to really mess with people's heads when they are drunk, too. You should try it some time--it's great fun. In fact, I'm known for being the guy who is sober at drunk parties so I can watch and help the drunks make fools of themselves. But yeah, they all believe they are god's gift to...or the best thing to happen in... politics. Isn't it just nauseating? Agreed' date=' hence why I like Norwegian politics more, we even have a party that (until a couple of years ago) was in favor of armed revolution [/quote'] Say whut? They A got tired of having to defend that position in every debate' date=' and B realized that starting a civil war is unlikely to be popular in an almost pacifist country. Luckily, several of the parties in Russia is still in favor of it, so I can still enjoy politics [/quote'] Heheheh. Careful, some people here might call you a nutcase. Yeah, it does make for interesting times. Say, if you ever come to the states...can we go out shooting sometime? I know several arms from russia might be illegal here, but...well we are home of the shotguns. So far as Arlen...hey, he believes he's doing right...the only way we could track him and what effect he's actually having is if we went in depth on him. Politicians...are still cannon fodder to me for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mur'phon Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 But yeah, they all believe they are god's gift to...or the best thing to happen in... politics. Isn't it just nauseating? Why? Don't we all believe we are doing the "right" thing? And aren't we in the end motivated by self interest? Say, if you ever come to the states...can we go out shooting sometime? I know several arms from russia might be illegal here, but...well we are home of the shotguns. Actually, Russian gun laws are fairly strict, in most of the federation even a hunting rifle is uncommon, doesen't mean that you can't get ahold of military grade stuff (especially in Chechenia and its suroundings), just that it isn't legal. Anyway, I still plan on getting some education in the states, so sure. As for politicans, I'm scared of party hacks more than anything, I find party changers (unless they go to United Russia:swear:) to be more pragmatic, and thus more likely to get things done "right". Only thing about this change is that it'll likely give the dems a fragile majority, which isn't bad if they use it to deal with the crisis, though I doubt that's all they'll do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trench Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 But yeah, they all believe they are god's gift to...or the best thing to happen in... politics. Isn't it just nauseating? What? God's gift to politics? Politics are of the devil;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Avlectus Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Why? Don't we all believe we are doing the "right" thing? And aren't we in the end motivated by self interest? I try not to assume that I am always right. Though a bit proud, and perhaps even cocky (or severe) due to my work ethic, I will consider that I may be wrong...and eventually admit to it. Or that at least I do not know/am not as informed as maybe I should be. I try to practice what I preach. I realize you cannot be humble like that in politics...or business for that matter if you are to survive long. However, it does tend to rub me the wrong way. Actually, Russian gun laws are fairly strict, in most of the federation even a hunting rifle is uncommon, doesen't mean that you can't get ahold of military grade stuff (especially in Chechenia and its suroundings), just that it isn't legal. Anyway, I still plan on getting some education in the states, so sure. Cool! As for politicans, I'm scared of party hacks more than anything, I find party changers (unless they go to United Russia:swear:) to be more pragmatic, and thus more likely to get things done "right". Well, in America you will find more often than not that party switchers do it in the guise of pragmatism but in reality are little more than snake-in-the-grass-bastard types doing it for $$$$$$$$ or some other mutual interest--and party hacks are scary too. My gripe is that, while yes people will do it out of self interest, they try to repackage it as "good for everyone". It ain't fooling me. That's all. That and I think it is amusing to imagine tying up these suited sleaze bags and hanging them by their thumbs and toes. But maybe that's just me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totenkopf Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 But maybe that's just me... Maybe not. Still, in the cases of Lieberman and Sphincter, the party changing was in large part related to their upcoming elections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mur'phon Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 I try not to assume that I am always right. Though a bit proud, and perhaps even cocky (or severe) due to my work ethic, I will consider that I may be wrong...and eventually admit to it. Or that at least I do not know/am not as informed as maybe I should be. I try to practice what I preach. You misunderstand me, I was talking about motivation, and "right" as in how we convince ourself that we did it for "right" reasons, i.e a patriot might convince himself that he did it for the good of the country. Well, in America you will find more often than not that party switchers do it in the guise of pragmatism but in reality are little more than snake-in-the-grass-bastard types doing it for $$$$$$$$ or some other mutual interest--and party hacks are scary too. If a die-hard (as in voting record) party hack did that, I'd agree fully (though the person in question might well believe otherwise) however, when a person can fit both parties, it's less clear. In this case, the guy probably thinks he is doing something good for the country by making it likelier that he'll stay in office and affect laws (thus feeling good about himself, a reward), he also benefits from a greater chance to earn more (a reward). Which one matters most to him? Neither of us know, so I won't judge him for doing something he likely feel is the "right" thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommycat Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 If a die-hard (as in voting record) party hack did that' date=' I'd agree fully (though the person in question might well believe otherwise) however, when a person can fit both parties, it's less clear. In this case, the guy probably thinks he is doing something good for the country by making it likelier that he'll stay in office and affect laws (thus feeling good about himself, a reward), he also benefits from a greater chance to earn more (a reward). Which one matters most to him? Neither of us know, so I won't judge him for doing something he likely feel is the "right" thing.[/quote'] It more or less reminds me of those who switch sports teams to the one who won the last championship. Jumping on the bandwagon more or less. Though I don't necessarily disagree with Specter leaving the Republican party. When your own party is planning on dumping you, it's time to leave the party. The only thing that worries me greatly is one party having that much control. Not that I see much divergence between the parties as of late. One is tax and spend, the other is deficit and spend(though now it appears we can add tax and deficit and spend which I expect the other party to pick up). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Avlectus Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 You misunderstand me' date=' I was talking about motivation, and "right" as in how we convince ourself that we did it for "right" reasons, i.e a patriot might convince himself that he did it for the good of the country.[/quote'] No I'm pretty sure I got you: it's what is referred to as rationalizing. We all do it. I was implying what you were saying before was merited. What you just said here is what I mean--there is what we think is right for the country, and what actually is right for the country: they may not be the same. And the only way to possibly know the difference I think is to be willing to stand corrected eventually. However, such may not be possible in a given profession without doing harm b/c your reputation may be on the line as a result. If a die-hard (as in voting record) party hack did that, I'd agree fully (though the person in question might well believe otherwise) however, when a person can fit both parties, it's less clear. In this case, the guy probably thinks he is doing something good for the country by making it likelier that he'll stay in office and affect laws (thus feeling good about himself, a reward), he also benefits from a greater chance to earn more (a reward). Did he (objectively) reconcile it with the real world and how it worked out, though? --Just saying. Which one matters most to him? Neither of us know, so I won't judge him for doing something he likely feel is the "right" thing. I try not to judge people, but I still hold opinions as do we all. So far as knowing for sure, I can't say either, that any of us would. However, I take into account what ultimately came of it all in actuality. In all fairness I weigh in possible and likely unknowns and their likelihoods, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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