Dark Side Battle Royal

[Gob]

Or Mace genuinely was killing Palpatine. His Force power may have been intensifying, but his flesh wasn't enduring so well.

 

Palpatine's face wasn't being melted. It was actually the mask he had created using the Force to hide his corrupted face. When the lightning hit him, the melting of the artificial face damaged his real face even further, causing his inhuman appearance.

 

Correction: Marek beat his ass and would have killed Palpatine if Koto hadn't intervened. Then Palpatine took advantage of his mercy and put him in an unexpected predicament. Had Marek stuck down Palpatine, he would have eliminated the Sith once and for all.

 

Palpatine was probably holding back because he knew that Marek's potential exceeded his. Even if he wasn't holding back, he didn't even have his lightsaber during the fight. Also, Marek couldn't beat Palpatine in a pure Force fight.

 

Alright, I would accept that. So if you would ask Mr. Lucas that question specifically so he could answer it directly, I will accept his answer. Since he hadn't said that PT were the strongest of all Jedi and all Sith of all time, then it's not canon. And even if it were, why would the next generation of Jedi and Sith be less powerful than the generation before it?

 

The quote about the PT being the strongest was actually in AotC, during the Geonosis battle. And he was talking about lightsaber combat. The reason for the NJO being weaker than the PT Jedi was because they had to start anew, with a huge amount of knowledge lost.

 

If Palpatine wanted a servant to replace Vader so greatly, then why didn't he just create one instead of investing all those resources into scouring the galaxy for Luke?

 

This is likely because if he created a new apprentice, he would still have Luke to worry about. If he could track down Luke to kill him, why wouldn't he just make Luke his new apprentice instead?

 

While I personally don't feel like having to clarify and explain every single aspect of the Star Wars universe in order to continue this debate, I would like to clarify that Palpatine is not the first user of Force Storm or inventor or anything like that:

 

 

 

I am not going to bother verifying the accuracy of this statement or any more of my pieces of evidence as none of the Palpatine-supporters have bothered to verify their evidence which DY repeatedly showed was either inaccurate or taken out of context. While I shall observe this thread and counter blatantly inaccurate statements I have little interest in having clarify every single little detail. Good day, sirs.

 

That's a different kind of Force storm. You're thinking of the move from KotOR. I'm talking about Palpatine's ability to create wormholes in space that could destroy entire fleets.

[Lord of Hunger]

That's a different kind of Force storm. You're thinking of the move from KotOR. I'm talking about Palpatine's ability to create wormholes in space that could destroy entire fleets.

I seem to remember that Force Storm in KOTOR was just an upgraded lightning. It could be game mechanics. The Force Storm Palpy used is lightning on steroids. You could call it the Force Storm.

It's the same ability, Palpy just used it in such a way that it was X10000000000000 bigger and more devastating, yet pointlessly overpowered and uncontrollable. At least Nihilus' apocalypse ability actually had a purpose and some level of control: it gave him energy and prolonged his existence. It was also insidiously more subtle in that it actually targeted people through the Force rather than an easily avoidable physical attack. Palpatine's Force Storm lacked any subtly, could be disrupted by others disrupting his Dark Side connection, could be avoided, and wasted large amounts of energy and caused pointless amounts of destruction. It is likely that the only reason why Palpatine's "Force Storm" is so trumpeted as such a big deal is because of the size. A very good Force ability usually is a smaller effect that causes its damage indirectly and is unnoticeable until it is too late. For a Sith that is supposed to be skilled at deception and manipulation, Palpatine used an ability that was uncharacteristic of his nature and only served to kill him yet again. I believe the term for this is EPIC FAILURE.

[RedHawke]

*Pokes head in...*

 

Just an FYI here, but Create Force Storms is not remotely related to Force Lightning or the Lightning Storm in KotOR, and any source stating such is in direct contradiction to the source material for the power, the Dark Empire Comics.

 

The actual graphics from the comic have it appearing as a cloud-shaped phenomena, so it is also not a worm-hole or other such nonsense.

 

Again just FYI.

[TKA-001]

Kreia.

No, I'm pretty sure that her use of Force Drain on the Jedi Masters wasn't really a fight. Sort of like how a gunman going up to somebody and shooting him isn't really a fight. But if you pay extremely close attention to the confrontation at the game's end,

you will find that Kreia does indeed use a lightsaber to fight you.

 

 

As Skywalker wasn't even expected to be there when the fight broke out, Palpatine had no motive to let himself be defeated.

Like Palpatine couldn't sense Anakin's approach and had no idea what he was going to do once he was disarmed... What do you think he means when he talks about Forseeing things all the time?

 

Then he did it [redirect the lightning] without a saber in the cutscene. The only reason that he died was because his intent wasn't to beat Palpatine, but to keep the senators from being killed.

Wrong. The apprentice did no redirection of any sort when Palpatine stopped playing dead. The Emperor spammed him with lightning and he just took it until it was over. The cutscene does not show him blasting any back at him, only standing in front of it with his arms out in front of him. The game implies and the novel confirms that the lightning was putting him under enough pain to make him want to pass out, so he clearly was not absorbing it anywhere close to the level that Yoda, Dooku, or Sidious could do it, if he was at all. The novel makes no mention of him actually using the Force to absorb it, so it's likely that he was just standing in the energy's path. And the energy explosion that happens when the apprentice dies isn't really his doing, because it's more or less of the same nature as the energy bursts which Palpatine and the Jedi in TFU died.

 

There also was a lot of reason to assume he was in danger from Starkiller. Before Kota stopped him, the Emperor was just one lightsaber stroke away from death. The Emperor was beaten by a better opponent.

Again, like Palpatine couldn't have just continued to defend himself with lightning.

 

Again the use of the word 'obvious.' I could just as easily say that Palpatine obviously wasn't able to beat Windu, which was why he would have died if Anakin didn't attack Mace.

I say it is obvious because it is obvious if you bother to actually use your brain by taking Palpatine's personality, style of doing things, the implications made by the course of events, the fact that Palpatine was disarmed immediately before Anakin entered the room, and the fact that Palpatine was used to seeing the future into account, it actually might make a lick of sense. The same applies to the scene with the Emperor and Vader's apprentice.

 

Starkiller beat the Emperor and nearly executed him,

Force pushing someone a few times (game) and throwing some debris at him (novel) a defeat does not make.

 

and very well could have disposed of him. Killing him would have been the more favorable way out, but that was lost when Palpatine went for Kota and the Senators.

but that stupid Kota interfered.

(Tangent) If there is any one thing that I truly detest about your style of argument (other than your tendency to pull "facts" out of thin air), it's your habit of throwing insults at your favorite bash characters at every single opportunity, instead of focusing your energy on making sense.

 

It's the same ability,

Just LOOK at it.

 

 

You're telling me that the former is just a bigger version of the latter. That's crazy. Downright freaking crazy. I don't see a single bolt of lightning in the first picture.

 

A Force storm is not a really big Force lightning bananza. It's a hyperspace wormhole which is directed by the user, which has two known functions: The most obvious one is the destruction of fleets of starships, and the second appears to be teleportation. The Emperor uses a Force storm to transport Luke Skywalker from the surface of Coruscant to an Imperial Dungeon ship in Dark Empire I. So the Force Storm does have more than one use.

 

EDIT: I initially thought that you simply didn't know/had forgotten what the Dark Empire Force storms are, but looking back back at your post, I saw that you had actually quoted Gob's post, which correctly stated that Palpatine's Force storms were not related to the lightning power, and simply flat-out denied it instead of explaining how it might have been in error.

 

At least Nihilus' apocalypse ability actually had a purpose and some level of control: it gave him energy and prolonged his existence.

Yeah, I'm sure living like Nihilus is something to be envied.

 

It was also insidiously more subtle in that it actually targeted people through the Force rather than an easily avoidable physical attack.

How is any weapon or technique which obliterates all life on a planet subtle? And may I ask how it is easy to avoid something of sufficient size and speed to destroy a fleet of starships?

 

Palpatine's Force Storm lacked any subtly

So what? It's not supposed to be subtle. It's supposed to blow **** up. Criticizing a weapon that's supposed to blow **** up for not being subtle makes about as much sense as criticizing stormtroopers for shooting people - It's what they're ****ing supposed to do.

 

could be disrupted by others disrupting his Dark Side connection

"It has a weakness, much like everything else in existence, and therefore it sucks and is basically useless."

 

and wasted large amounts of energy

Evidence that it wastes large amounts of energy?

 

and caused pointless amounts of destruction.

That's sort of what a weapon of mass destruction is for, you know... And since when is destroying an enemy fleet pointless? It could be used to wipe out a hostile group of ships without risking a single ship of your own.

 

It is likely that the only reason why Palpatine's "Force Storm" is so trumpeted as such a big deal is because of the size. A very good Force ability usually is a smaller effect that causes its damage indirectly and is unnoticeable until it is too late.

So there is a much smaller Force power which could also destroy a fleet in minutes? I wonder what this is and why I've never heard of it before.

[Jkmc]

To bring this back on topic, Team 1 would win. How? Kreia would simply prattle on and on... and on... and on... and on... until all the other teams committed suicide by sticking their swords or sabers in themselves.

[Visas]

Team 2 for me.

[SirBoomstick91]

Umm... Team 2? Maybe out of favouritism, maybe it isn't but I voted for team 2.