Monkey Island 2 music re-recording

[Daveproyoyoyo]

Hey all,

 

I thought I would start a thread to get some opinions on is this a good idea and any advice on how to go about doing it. Im going to re-record part/all of the music to monkey island 2 for my uni dissertation.

 

I am now well on the way through orchestrating the music for MI2. It is prooving to be a difficult task as I have to seperate individual horn lines from a group then transpose each of them with sibelius then print off the new score ready for the musicians to use. I have done 8 tracks now and still plodding along.

 

Having serious trouble finding a marimba player and pan flutes. I may have to use some samples, any one know of any good ones?

 

Thanks all

[Monkey Mania]

Free or what?

[s-island]

Which MIDIs do you use as a source?

[ThunderPeel2001]

You say you're looking for particular instruments... but the instruments used in the music changed on whether you were listening via SoundBlaster, General Midi, MT-32 or the Amiga version (where LucasArts got to choose the actual instrument samples themselves).

 

With that in mind I wouldn't have thought you could tie yourself to one particular version? It might be best if you chose something from the above which you thought sounded best...

 

(If you haven't already considered all of this yourself.)

 

Good luck with the project! I hope we'll get to hear the finished results!

[s-island]

The game comes with an MT-32 soundtrack and a dumbed down AdLib one. From interviews with Michael Land, he made it clear that the only track he arranged especially for AdLib was the opening theme. It's clear that the module the soundtrack of MI2 was composed on was the MT-32 or one of its later versions.

Even the Amiga version uses the MT-32 MIDIs in a dumbed down form, and what sounds like 8 kHz samples recorded from the module. The sample bank even keeps pretty much the standard patch setup of the MT-32.

[ThunderPeel2001]

The instruments in the MT-32 versions sound nothing like the ones uses on the Amiga...? The ones on the Amiga sound far more real and genuine if you ask me. (Unless I'm doing something wrong when I play MI on the PC?)

[s-island]

Heh, I've always found the MT-32 version more pleasant to listen to. Mostly because of the low fidelity of the Amiga's samples and that it cuts out notes.

 

Do you use a real MT-32 or an emulator? http://s-island.mixnmojo.com/monkey2.php - I recorded this with a real one if you want to compare with yours.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Wow, I don't think I've ever heard the PC music sound quite like that. It's definitely closer to the Amiga version and I do know what you mean regarding the lower quality samples. There's elements of the PC version that I still don't enjoy, but they're MUCH less on those recordings. Wow. Very nice indeed.

 

I'm not a fan of "synth" sound in general, that's probably my only bugbear, that weird sound with the soft echo that leads a lot of the songs (is it supposed to be horn?) - but it's certainly not a deal breaker

 

(Eep, there's a really horrible example of a horn sound that suddenly cuts through the International House of Track at 1.05...)

 

Wow, I'm really impressed. How can I get this music on my PC? (Please tell me it's cheap and easy.)

[s-island]

Heh, the one at 1.05 is a shakuhachi, a Japanese flute with a breathy sound. It plays in scale with the rest of the tune when you enter the International House of Mojo itself. The MT-32 isn't that far off from the sound of a real one:

 

The easiest way to get this music with your game, is to buy a used Roland MT-32 (or the later CM-32L and CM-64 models which are 100% compatible). There tends to be a few on ebay at almost any time. They hook up to the MIDI out of your sound card. Most sound cards use the gameport as MIDI interface and there are adapters to hook it up with that.

 

It's not that cheap though, but most games between 1989 and 1993 had their music made for it so if you play a lot of old games, it might be worth it. It can be used with both ScummVM and DOSBox.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Ah! Thanks for the details. I find the MT-32 I've used to be unlistenable... In ScummVM it sounds nothing like your recordings, for example. Thanks for the information, looks like I might have to invest in one of these -- I hope they're not too expensive! (Got to disagree with your assessment of the sound of the flute, though )

 

Hmph. I was trying to find some examples of the Amiga version which I really enjoyed (Inside LeChuck's Fortress and the Big Whoop Tunnels) but the only versions I can find are really badly recorded ones. Does anyone have a recording of the Amiga soundtrack made by an actual Amiga? (Without all the weird skipping and jumping in the ones I heard :0/)

 

Edit: Sorry was in the middle of posting a reply when you replied!

[s-island]

So, you used the MT-32 driver that came with ScummVM?

[ThunderPeel2001]

Well I ticked the box which says "True Roland MT-32 (disable GM emulation)", so I assume so. If there's another step in the process then the ScummVM guys need to make it a lot clearer! :/

 

I've never played MI2 through on a PC partially because the music was so horrifically bad.

[s-island]

"True Roland MT-32" will only work with a real Roland MT-32. With anything else, it'll sound beyond horrible as the MT-32 had a unique instrument setup. If you untick it, ScummVM will take the MT-32 MIDIs and do a simple instrument number conversion so it works with General MIDI sound cards. It still won't sound that good because of the unique balance between instruments on the MT-32, but at least you won't get a sitar playing in place of a trumpet.

[ThunderPeel2001]

It sounds exactly the same whether it's ticked or unticked... unlistenable *sigh* I really thought I was going to be able to play MI2 again.

[s-island]

That's weird. Sucks though.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Ooh! I set ScummVM's "Music Driver" to "Windows MIDI" and it definitely sounds better. Not quite as good as your recordings though... Is there anything else I should be doing?

[s-island]

"Windows MIDI" will use whatever MIDI synth that's set to default in Windows' control panel. I'm not sure what to do to make it sound better. There are sample banks around, but I've never tried them out and they really depend on which sound card you have.

 

There's also an MT-32 emulator included with ScummVM (you enable it by setting Music Driver to MT-32), but it's not complete and it needs some ROM files ripped from the MT-32. Roland sent a C&D to the last person uploading them to a site, so I don't know where you would find those.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Actually it seems that Roland's Copyright has expired, or something. Not sure if that covers their ROMs (probably not) but there was some legal wrangling between them and this guy:

 

http://www.artworxinn.com/alex/history.htm

 

But that was all a long time ago... The offshoot of that project was something called MUNT (an MT-32 Emulator):

 

http://www.sierrahelp.com/Utilities/Emulators/Munt.html

 

Somebody also mentioned Edirol/Roland Virtual Sound Canvas as a good alternative. I don't suppose you have any opinions on it?

[s-island]

I believe it's MUNT that was added to ScummVM. Never tried the Virtual Sound Canvas.

[Snugglecakes]

These emulators must be applauded for effort but they're still a long way off true MT-32 sound. I prefer the adlib music to emulated MT-32. Would LOVE to have the real thing though.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Ugh. Someone needs to remake the hardware for these things, but in a new smaller friendlier package. I can't believe I can buy a Commodore64 SID sound chip or an Amiga floppy disk emulator, but I can't buy an MT-32

 

The Virtual Sound Canvas thing is an officially licensed product, so it might be better quality than Munt? I don't actually understand of the specs though... does it make sense to anybody else?

 

http://www.roland.com/products/en/VSC-MP1/

[s-island]

The VSC is an emulated Sound Canvas which is a totally different model to an MT-32. It's like comparing the Commodore Amiga 500 to a Commodore 64. The VSC conforms to the General MIDI spec (unlike the MT-32) and will probably work better with GM compatible games, like Sam & Max Hit the Road.

[Snugglecakes]

I can't believe I can buy a Commodore64 SID sound chip or an Amiga floppy disk emulator, but I can't buy an MT-32

 

Good point!

[ThunderPeel2001]

The VSC is an emulated Sound Canvas which is a totally different model to an MT-32. It's like comparing the Commodore Amiga 500 to a Commodore 64. The VSC conforms to the General MIDI spec (unlike the MT-32) and will probably work better with GM compatible games, like Sam & Max Hit the Road.

 

There's a guy here who says the VSC does a great job of MT-32

http://vogons.zetafleet.com/viewtopic.php?p=134749&sid=7b5ef90db63af7aaba2a36b34af15988

 

There's also an interesting guide on ScummVM's forums that I should explore (not sure what it's actually doing):

http://forum.scummvm.org/viewtopic.php?t=6303&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

 

Thanks for your help -- I had no idea the music could be improved so amazingly!

[s-island]

I have no idea what he's going on about, but as he says, VSC is based on the SC-88Pro. I think it has some different samples lined up in the same order as the MT-32 as an approximation of it. However, it's useless for playing most MT-32 compatible games as they tend to use the MT-32's more special features which includes re-arranging the instrument order and programming new sounds. MI2 has a custom bass sound, some synth pads, and several sound effects which the LEC guys programmed for the MT-32. Other synths will ignore these things and play the wrong instruments.

 

ScummVM has an MT-32 to General MIDI conversion which basically converts between the instrument order on the MT-32 to whatever is closest in the General MIDI specification. It's automatically activated if you untick "True MT-32".