TSL Total Conversion Mod idea

[JuniorModder]

HI! I have had a great idea for TC mod for TSL.

 

It would take place a mere 3 years after TSL.

 

You would wake up on Telos Citadel Station, where you would embark on a journey to help rebuild the Jedi Order.

 

The mod would be fully voiced. I have specially designed companions dialog to fit around existing wav files from the characters.

 

And since I only have limited dialog from the re-used companions, I have decided that the mod would have to follow the actuall canon, being that the Exile was a female lightsider. And in the real canon, the Exile traveled with both Mical, and Brianna.

 

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Brand New companions:

 

B1-D1:

A protocol droid to fill you in on things that have happened since TSL.

 

Captain Grent:

A rodian who works for the TSF on the Citadel Station.

 

Tenneth Carson:

A famous teenage swoop racer who lives on Onderon.

 

Helayna Lee:

A young Arkanian Scientist.

 

R9-PE:

A small sensor droid created by Helayna.

 

Master Na'adia:

A twilek jedi master from Onderon.

---------------------------------------------------------------

 

Well-Known Companions:

 

Brianna, the Handmaiden and Mical, the Disciple:

The Exile left all of her companions with one last request, to rebuild the Jedi Order.

Brianna and Mical went to the Jedi Temple on Coruscant to do just that.

 

Visas Marr, and HK-47:

 

Visas and HK went to the the planet Telerath to try and rebuild the jedi order.

---------------------------------------------------------------

 

Planets:

 

Telos Citadel Station:

To celebrate their new fuel source, TCS began redesigning their look, and overall functionality. EDIT: I meant redesigning.

 

Telos HK factory:

The PC and party travel to this factory to find a Jedi master.

 

Arkania:

The cast of characters come here to find another Jedi master. They also meet Helayna, and her sensor droid, R9-PE.

 

Coruscant:

Our heroes come here to find Jedi that are willing to help them on their mission to restore the Jedi Order.

 

Onderon:

When the famous swoop racer, Tenneth Carson, becomes the victim of sabotage, the PC helps him, in addition to finding a Jedi Master.

 

Unnamed Sith Ship:

The main characters are captured and imprisoned on a Sith ship. With the help of the Exile's former companion, Mira, they come face to face with a Sith Lord.

 

Draethos:

As the sith ship explodes, the PC and his party, make their exit in the last escape-pod. They land on the desolate, and death-ridden planet of Draethos. They are attacked by the planet natives, and the only way out, is through a cave steeped in the dark side.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------

 

And tell me if this idea sucks badly, Mical and Brianna have a very small romance.

I thought of this, because they both have romance dialog, but it would be very cheesy to have either of them have a romance with the PC.

 

Anyhow, I've been editing dlg, uct, and recording new dialog. BUT, I have NO idea how to reskin anything, and need other voice actors. I have people chosen for Tenneth and Helayna already.

 

I am working on a google site to show my progress. It is still very unfinished. http://sites.google.com/site/thenewjediordermod/

[Rtas Vadum]

I could do a few reskins, if you'd like. I could also help with some of the story, if you'd need that too.

[JuniorModder]

That would be great! I posted requests for Helayna, Captian Grent, and Tenneth reskins over at the Mod Requests forums.

[jonathan7]

Ok, well having posted a million times with very similar posts I have decided to create a blog for such times... Click Me

 

Well, I don't think a week goes by when another "Total Conversion" Mod is announced as underway in Holowan. I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but Holowan is actually a rather morbid place - it is a graveyard littered with ambitious failed modding projects.

 

This is not meant to discourage individuals from modding, nor is it meant to be demeaning it is just I think a matter of stating the truth of the matter, and I’m calling it, as I see it...

 

The story goes something like this; an ambitious and very inexperienced modder arrives on the scene with an a head full of ideas (which aren’t fleshed out too much) and announces a Total Conversion mod. Generally the Veteran Modders around will offer the standard advice; get to know the modding scene slowly build your way up from smaller to larger mods. The veteran modders and community legends started out in this manner. This advice is generally ignored and unheeded; often an illogical anger is harboured towards those who have commented “negatively” on the Total Conversion Mod.

 

The fact however remains that Holowan is littered with attempts at Total Conversion mods, and there has yet to be a successful one; all have failed. For example Silver Edge's Brother Hood of Shadow (and Solomons Revenge) both add "only" 4 hours or so of game play, and both took several years to complete. There have been those who have argued that there have been “successful TC’s” however this, I think actually shows a lack of knowledge of what a TC really is and also what ones definition of “success” truly is. However I stand by my statement that there has yet to be a successful TC.

 

As I have said before “The definition of Total Conversion is; "A total conversion is a mod of an existing game that replaces almost all of the artistic assets in the original game, and sometimes core aspects of game play, in some cases creating a game in a completely different genre from the original." - So no, Trex's the Jedi Masters is not by definition a Total Conversion Mod, and while it was undoubtedly a labour of love and had a lot of work put into it and has potential, it is not anywhere near the level of "very good" for KotOR mods; and being an Admin at KotOR Files may I hope mean I know a thing or two about this...” This post fleshes out more what a "Total Conversion" is or is not.

 

This is not to knock anyone’s ambitions but I am very sceptical about Total Conversion mods, I would love for people to prove me wrong. But please heed the advice of the Veteran Modders; make smaller mods, learn how to mod. Meanwhile you can be planning out your Total Conversion, the Story and the dialogue all of which needs to be pretty much fleshed out before you start on the project.

 

There are only two “TC” – or I prefer the term MGM (Major Game Mod) – which is more accurate, which I think stand a chance of being completed. These are DV and Logan’s mods - you can find their threads in Holowan and please review their threads so you can be under no illusions as to how massive a project a “TC” really is!

 

Remember the best mods take a lot of time - there are a lot of rushed mods that are released and frankly the quality is poor and a waste of time; if your going to do modding do to things for me a) Have Fun! b) Take your time, good things really do come to those who wait!

[JuniorModder]

Ok, well having posted a million times with very similar posts I have decided to create a blog for such times... Click Me

 

That's why I didn't say [WIP]. It is a work in progress, but it won't be anywhere near finished for a long time. Right now I am just doing small things so that in the future, I will already have those finished. And I have been working on this quite a bit before I posted this thread.

[jonathan7]

That's why I didn't say [WIP]. It is a work in progress,

 

WIP stands for Work In Progress - so I'm not quite sure what you mean by this

 

but it won't be anywhere near finished for a long time. Right now I am just doing small things so that in the future, I will already have those finished. And I have been working on this quite a bit before I posted this thread.

 

So why post this now? I remain confused, especially if you are going to get others to work on things for the mod, what is the intention of this thread?

[JuniorModder]

WIP stands for Work In Progress - so I'm not quite sure what you mean by this

 

 

 

So why post this now? I remain confused, especially if you are going to get others to work on things for the mod, what is the intention of this thread?

 

Having [WIP] in front of the thread gives the impression that you have more work done than I have. For me at least. I might add a [WIP] to the thread when I have more work done.

 

I posted it because I wanted to see if other people thought it was a good idea.

[HdVaderII]

Ok, well having posted a million times with very similar posts I have decided to create a blog for such times...

 

You should sticky it man.

[jonathan7]

Having [WIP] in front of the thread gives the impression that you have more work done than I have. For me at least. I might add a [WIP] to the thread when I have more work done.

 

I posted it because I wanted to see if other people thought it was a good idea.

 

Very well, I think you need to flesh out the story a lot more; what is your story? What are you trying to convey to the player? Show us the planning, how LS and DS paths fit into things, or are you just having LS? Give me a detailed breakdown of your charachters, your knowledge of them; how are they going to respond to the PC going LS/DS. Who are the bad guys (if any?) etc etc

 

You should sticky it man.

 

I'll leave that to RedHawke to decide

 

No use, they will ignore us anyway... or I'm just cynical. -RH

[JuniorModder]

I'll edit the first post.

 

EDIT: Here is the url:

 

http://sites.google.com/site/thenewjediordermod/

[Lord of Hunger]

I really must agree with Jonathan7 on this. If you are going to create a total conversion, start out with a small mod first.

 

In fact, if you feel like making a TC, why not group up with the two hundred other people who want to make TC's on Holowan and just combine your ideas and efforts? You'll probably get a lot done (provided you can develop team work).

[disbeliever]

Coming from someone who started modding only within the last year, its hard. Very hard.

 

I think the biggest hurdle is not technical or skill, but motivation. People mod for fun, as a hobby. We dont get paid for it, so other than personal interest, there is no driving force. You dont get a pay check at the end of the week for good modding. So you start off with a grand idea, and you might even have the skills to accomplish your idea. And you start off with both feet running. Then you hit a road block, maybe have to redo an area. Then you find yourself losing motivation and steam. Your updates go from daily to weekly and then sporadically.

 

I am not trying to discourage you in anyway, just stating the painful reality. Start small, and as I found out recently, find a "modding buddy" you can use to help each other stay motivated. Work is much less painful when you can share it

[VarsityPuppet]

Coming from someone who started modding only within the last year, its hard. Very hard.

 

I think the biggest hurdle is not technical or skill, but motivation. People mod for fun, as a hobby. We dont get paid for it, so other than personal interest, there is no driving force. You dont get a pay check at the end of the week for good modding. So you start off with a grand idea, and you might even have the skills to accomplish your idea. And you start off with both feet running. Then you hit a road block, maybe have to redo an area. Then you find yourself losing motivation and steam. Your updates go from daily to weekly and then sporadically.

 

I am not trying to discourage you in anyway, just stating the painful reality. Start small, and as I found out recently, find a "modding buddy" you can use to help each other stay motivated. Work is much less painful when you can share it

 

^ QFT

 

I'm not sure why every new guy (and his mother) wants to pull off a Total Conversion right from the get-go. I've been modding on an off for about 4 months and I've even gotten tired of it on 3 different occasions. I've thought about TCs, but my mods are nowhere near that scope of hard work.

 

Plus, I gotta be honest... I'm not liking your storyline that much. As is, I think it would not warrant more than 1 playthrough. You wanted to see what people thought, and I'm just stating my opinion. Take it or leave it.

[JuniorModder]

^ QFT

 

I'm not sure why every new guy (and his mother) wants to pull off a Total Conversion right from the get-go. I've been modding on an off for about 4 months and I've even gotten tired of it on 3 different occasions. I've thought about TCs, but my mods are nowhere near that scope of hard work.

 

Plus, I gotta be honest... I'm not liking your storyline that much. As is, I think it would not warrant more than 1 playthrough. You wanted to see what people thought, and I'm just stating my opinion. Take it or leave it.

 

I was waiting for someone to criticize it! Okay, can you explain why you don't like about it, and how I could improve it. Thanks for your opinions!

 

And to everyone reminding me how difficult, and long the mod will take, I know.

I have personally gone through these forums and seen them. But my dad is a programmer, and he is trying to teach me basics. And since I don't have to worry about work yet, and I'm homeschooled, I have a lot more time to work on this. I understand and agree with you. But want to try to get something done.

[VarsityPuppet]

I was waiting for someone to criticize it! Okay, can you explain why you don't like about it, and how I could improve it. Thanks for your opinions!

 

And to everyone reminding me how difficult, and long the mod will take, I know.

I have personally gone through these forums and seen them. But my dad is a programmer, and he is trying to teach me basics. And since I don't have to worry about work yet, and I'm homeschooled, I have a lot more time to work on this. I understand and agree with you. But want to try to get something done.

 

Homeschooled eh? This will certainly help with the 'time issue'. Alot of modders are less active now that school's started up...

 

 

Okay, let's see.. what exactly do/don't I like about the idea...

 

1. - I think the names need a little work. Some of them are good, some are okay (and just need a bit more Star Warsin' up), and some of them are... just meh. For example, when I create Star Wars characters, I usually take simple names, and then spell them differently, sort of like you did with "Helayna". I assume "Helayna" is a variant of "Helena" right? If it were me deciding the names, I would take it a step further and maybe make it "Illena". I'm not saying that's what her name should be, but it's one of the many processes I use to (at least try to) come up with good names.

 

2. - What's the point of the story/mod? If you want people to play your mod, you're going to need something attractive to bring them once, and of course bring 'em back again. In my opinion, finding a bunch of jedi masters wouldn't be particularly enthralling... especially since that's what you've done in TSL really. If you're rebuilding the jedi order, wouldn't that consist of finding untrained force sensitives and training new jedi?

 

ur.. well that's all I can think of for now. As I said before.. take it or leave it.

 

 

 

Oh wait, one more thing.. I would suggest you invest in a more unique username. JuniorModder is a bit of a generic one. It's sort of an unwritten rule, but having a unique (and optionally cool) name gives you more mod cred Again, it's up to you, and I'm unsure as to how many others share the same view.

[JuniorModder]

Homeschooled eh? This will certainly help with the 'time issue'. Alot of modders are less active now that school's started up...

 

 

Okay, let's see.. what exactly do/don't I like about the idea...

 

1. - I think the names need a little work. Some of them are good, some are okay (and just need a bit more Star Warsin' up), and some of them are... just meh. For example, when I create Star Wars characters, I usually take simple names, and then spell them differently, sort of like you did with "Helayna". I assume "Helayna" is a variant of "Helena" right? If it were me deciding the names, I would take it a step further and maybe make it "Illena". I'm not saying that's what her name should be, but it's one of the many processes I use to (at least try to) come up with good names.

 

2. - What's the point of the story/mod? If you want people to play your mod, you're going to need something attractive to bring them once, and of course bring 'em back again. In my opinion, finding a bunch of jedi masters wouldn't be particularly enthralling... especially since that's what you've done in TSL really. If you're rebuilding the jedi order, wouldn't that consist of finding untrained force sensitives and training new jedi?

 

ur.. well that's all I can think of for now. As I said before.. take it or leave it.

 

 

 

Oh wait, one more thing.. I would suggest you invest in a more unique username. JuniorModder is a bit of a generic one. It's sort of an unwritten rule, but having a unique (and optionally cool) name gives you more mod cred Again, it's up to you, and I'm unsure as to how many others share the same view.

 

I left out a lot of things like training new jedi in the first post. I was just trying to give everyone a general idea. On the google site (once I'm finished it), I will go into more detail.

[HdVaderII]

I left out a lot of things like training new jedi in the first post. I was just trying to give everyone a general idea. On the google site (once I'm finished it), I will go into more detail.

 

It normally helps to have a well and fully planned idea to present to the community, if you expect to have people interested in and or thinking of helping out.

[JuniorModder]

It normally helps to have a well and fully planned idea to present to the community, if you expect to have people interested in and or thinking of helping out.

 

I have a well and fully planned idea, but I didn't want to have a mammoth post that no one would want to read. My first post contains a nice, general idea, will give everyone my basic outline, and if they are interested in it, then they can go to my site to get a better view of the mod.

[Watcher07]

I have a well and fully planned idea...

 

First off, let me give you some praise. You've got some drive and a fully fleshed out and planned idea. A TC is a big project, and having direction and drive are two key elements.

 

Next, let me criticize some. Your idea appears to be largely a retelling of KOTOR 2 even down to the characters and companions. A TC as Jonathan7 pointed out is massive in scope and exactly as the name implies, a complete alteration even down to the basic storyline. Let's check some of the similarities:

 

Captain Grent - A TSF captain on Citadel Station.

Lt. Grenn - A TSF lieutenant on Citadel Station.

 

Helayna Lee - A young Arkanian Scientist (with a companion droid)

Bao-Dur - A Zabrak Engineer (with a companion droid)

 

R9-PE - A small sensor droid created by Helayna Lee

Remote - A small sensor droid created by Bao-Dur

 

Tenneth Carson - A swoop racer on Onderon (framed for a crime)

Dhagon Gent - A doctor on Onderon (framed for a crime)

 

Telos Citadel Station - Undesigning their look (not sure what that means, but why use Telos again?). I won't pretend to know if there is any lore attached to the fate of Telos, but based off the game I would imagine that with a canon ending, Telos would end up remaining a successful platform for terraforming operations to continue, repurposing it just because of a new fuel source seems.....bizarre.

 

Telos HK Factory - The PC and party go there to find a new Jedi Master? HK was exclusively built for Revan, when his knock-offs were created, they were meant to infiltrate the Republic to locate the Exile and eliminate her. The one HK factory is more than likely the only one that would exist. They had alot of droids in the factory, and since their mission is subtlety, there's no real purpose for a secondary factory. Also, why would a Jedi Master be there? The main game had you going to areas where the planet was able to disguise the presence of a Jedi Master so they could hide, this is three years later so what is a master doing in the factory? Have they always been there or is it a "force"d confrontation? Assuming the restored content mods as canon, the factory has been largely destroyed.

 

Arkania just looks like more of the same as far as the story goes.

 

Coruscant has you finding Jedi to help restore the order. Between Kotor I and II, it seems a stretch to assume there are a whole lot of Jedi left. Coruscant would be an excellent place to blend in though, lots of life to cover over their presence. It seems better that you're only looking for regular Jedi here than masters though, as the second game had some of the highest masters in hiding and even they ultimately got wiped out.

 

Onderon has a swoop racer facing sabotage that you help and in return end up finding a jedi master. Thats pretty much a carbon copy of Onderon from the second game, with a swoop racer in place of the doctor.

 

Unnamed Sith Ship brings the team face to face with a Sith Lord. In the first game, it was the classic Star Wars event. Captured on board an enemy ship, the team organizes but is brought face to face with a far more powerful presence, then escapes. It was excellent that they had Malak survive the encounter in the first one, scripted though it was, it just gave you a sense that there was a far worse battle coming with him. The second game had you fight Nihilus, again an excellent confrontation (the battle was fairly week imho) but you defeat him and escape. But doing the captured and escape bit feels a bit too much now. It could definitely be reworked to make it fresh, but just redoing whats been done before is a bit lackadaisical.

 

Draethos feels like a jump from the Harbinger in Kotor I straight to the Undercity, but it still has some good promise on what could be done with it.

 

Now don't take all this criticism too hard, like I said, basically it seems like you're just using the framework in place to retell much of the same story, but if thats true, then you're not doing a total conversion, you're doing a retelling of the same story, which isn't good or bad, it just is what it is.

 

For a complete and total conversion, you should look at expanding your story in new and unseen directions. I've been around the modding community for a few years and done a couple re-skins I've released to public and done quite a few compatibility patches of major mods for my own personal use, so I know very well the limitations of the game. Its extremely difficult to come up with new areas, but less so with new characters. Silveredge did a brilliant job with his Brotherhood of Shadow mod. I've played through Kotor so many times I can't begin to imagine, but his use of different modules in different areas sometimes left me wondering where his new one came from (korriban wastes from dantooine plains, amazing transformation). A reskin job on a module can transform it into a brand new place that draws the old hands into your new story. I never want to use the word "only" in the same sentence about his mod, but it adds just a few hours of serious game time to complete, and took him a very, very long time.

 

Again, not trying to discourage you, but it helps to sit back and realize the scope of what you're attempting. You might consider altering the story from locating these Jedi masters to what you've stated it is, which is the rebuilding of the Jedi order. Essentially you could have the PC tracking down Jedi, or even just force sensitives that he/she has to train to use the force. This could be accomplished through forced accompanied quests or even dueling sessions, so on and so forth. As you gain influence, they get a deeper knowledge of the force. By the end of the mod, you would basically be a master and would have accomplished what the mod set out to do, rebuild the Jedi order or Sith order depending on how you lean.

 

Anyway, those are my thoughts, best of luck on the project, and there's a whole group of forumites that will always be happy to help.

[JuniorModder]

When you lay it out like that it does seem pretty unoriginal.

But:

 

Tenneth is not accused of a crime. His swoop bike is sabotaged, and Na'adia saves him. He also never knew Na'adia before then.

 

And with the Telos Citadel Station, I meant redesigning. I wanted to make the Station a fun place to explore by reskinning it.

 

I think that there will be one Jedi Master, and that is Na'adia, but there is something about her that you don't know yet. To find out, visit her page on the site. I will change it so you recruit and train new jedi, rather than just finding masters.

 

I hadn't even noticed the similarity between Grenn and Grent! I'll rename him.

 

I really suggest you visit the site. I admit, there are a lot of similarities, but I have a lot of fresh, new ideas for my mod too.

[Rtas Vadum]

I think that there will be one Jedi Master, and that is Na'adia, but there is something about her that you don't know yet. To find out, visit her page on the site. I will change it so you recruit and train new jedi, rather than just finding masters.

 

 

The part about Na'aida is interesting, but it really is the sort of thing that you would want to have in your drafts of the story, not out in the open where anyone could see it. Not because its a bad bit of info about her, but because that is the sort of surprise that drive the story of many games, thought it isn't a "new" idea for a certain character that seems to be loyal to the player, suddenly change sides and be against the player. If many knew that Kreia was would be the one to betray the player at the end,(if it was a little less of a shock than the Jedi Master's betrayal), the game would seem like the prequels, in that if you really watch it, you get the Palpatine=Darth Sidious/Emperor connection in Episode I(which I did, without much investment into the story).

 

Btw, Some of the head models you've chosen for your characters aren't bad, but it seems that they aren't the best models, namely when they might need DS transitions. Any others you'd like to use? For the Rodian, that isn't a problem. Though it might be a better endeavor to use another alien species, since even though it is possible, its unlikely that a Rodian would be part of the TSF. TSL doesn't have many alien species part of the TSF, though its obvious that some members might've been .

[JuniorModder]

What other species should I use?

[Rtas Vadum]

What other species should I use?

 

Likely a Twi'lek, because it would be expected for a captain in the TSF to wear a uniform, and it would be slightly easier for a Twi'lek to wear one, than a Rodian. That, and since Twi'leks can readily use most, if not all body models in the game, they can also wear armor and such, without the need for custom skins.

[JuniorModder]

Good Idea. I will probably make him into a twi'lek. But couldn't I just say that he is a subspecies like Bao-dur, so he can't wear all different clothing.

[Rtas Vadum]

Good Idea. I will probably make him into a twi'lek. But couldn't I just say that he is a subspecies like Bao-dur, so he can't wear all different clothing.

 

Well, the reasoning for Bao-Dur not being able to wear certain armors or Jedi robes, isn't because of his species. Its because of the fact that he has the prosthetic arm, and some models(such as the Jedi Robes), don't have a special model that has the arm instead of the normal arms.