KOTOR 2 Storyline questions [SPOILERS]

[arsenalforever]

No, since she would still be alive. Her wish to destroy the force does go along with the fact that she holds on to ideals of the Jedi and the Sith, and if she does not die, either by the Exile's hand, or with the death of the force, her entire plan fails. It might still be successful if no one could use the force, but I don't think it goes that far.

 

Why would her plan fail if someone other than the Exile kills her?

 

 

Either of their deaths is going to cause an echo,

 

But echoes are caused when many lives are extinguished at once. Kenobi felt it when Darth Vader destroyed Alderaan, The Jedi on Dantooine felt it when Malak destroyed Taris but how could the death of a single individual like the Exile or Kreia send an echo in the force?

 

The Exile is not the last of the Jedi, what about the Lost Jedi like Atton, Bao-Dur, Mical, Visas, Mira?

[RevMg]

Why would her plan fail if someone other than the Exile kills her?

 

 

 

 

But echoes are caused when many lives are extinguished at once. Kenobi felt it when Darth Vader destroyed Alderaan, The Jedi on Dantooine felt it when Malak destroyed Taris but how could the death of a single individual like the Exile or Kreia send an echo in the force?

 

The Exile is not the last of the Jedi, what about the Lost Jedi like Atton, Bao-Dur, Mical, Visas, Mira?

 

I feel we need to clarify. Echoes and wounds are not the same. Echoes are created by the latter but not only. It was underlined in TSL that even small things can leave the mark upon the galaxy and the death of powerful force user would qualify for that. (like Sidious's death was felt across the Galaxy by those attuned to the Force)

 

The Exile is the last of the Jedi from certain point of view. In other words (s)he is the last from the old Order, while his/her students will create a new Order. Or to be more specific, Exile has ties to the old order but (s)he is not rooted in it like Kreia.

[arsenalforever]

And why would Kreia's plan fail if she was killed by someone other than the Exile? So echoes are created when a strong force user dies? Suppose an echo is sent when a strong force user dies, say the Exile, how would you compare the magnitude of this echo with that of the wound created when a planet, say Katarr is devastated? Kreia wanted a WOUND right?

 

And can we draw any points of similarity in the bonds shared by Kreia and the Exile and that shared by Nihilius and Visas Marr? Did the bond between the latter break when Visas' alignment changed?

 

The Exile is termed as a wound in the force because he was able to (involuntarily) give up the Force while other Jedi who fought in the Mandalorian wars didn't NEED to break their connection to the force because they didn't have the ability to form such strong bonds with companions like the Exile did and even if they DID form strong bonds with companions, they had become so dependent on the Force that they couldn't break their connection to it, right?

 

After Surik defeated Traya, she ordered the generator's activation, destroying the planet and sealing the wound, once and for all

 

The Exile herself was the wound, then how does destroying Malachor seal the wound?

 

You are a breach that must be closed. You transmit your pain, your suffering through the Force. Within you we see something worse than the teachings of the Sith. What you carry may mean the death of the Force… and the death of the Jedi.

 

How does the exile transmit pain and suffering through the Force?

 

Thereafter, Surik was deafened to the Force, but she continued to project the echoes of the suffering that she had witnessed

 

Is there any example of Surik (The Exile) projecting the echoes of the suffering that she had witnessed?

[Rtas Vadum]

And why would Kreia's plan fail if she was killed by someone other than the Exile? So echoes are created when a strong force user dies? Suppose an echo is sent when a strong force user dies, say the Exile, how would you compare the magnitude of this echo with that of the wound created when a planet, say Katarr is devastated? Kreia wanted a WOUND right?

 

You do realize that there is literally no one else to kill her? Sion? He knows he can't, and doesn't even seem to try. The Jedi you've trained? They try that, and it doesn't work. So the Exile is the only one who can, mostly because she is the only one around that can.

 

As for the echo, it is simple. With her death, the ideals of the old Jedi order die with her. Thus, an echo.

 

The Exile is termed as a wound in the force because he was able to (involuntarily) give up the Force while other Jedi who fought in the Mandalorian wars didn't NEED to break their connection to the force because they didn't have the ability to form such strong bonds with companions like the Exile did and even if they DID form strong bonds with companions, they had become so dependent on the Force that they couldn't break their connection to it, right?

 

Imagine the the Exile forming these bonds as her making friends. Perhaps not good friends, but still people that she would know enough about to care, perhaps even some of them Jedi she would be close with, etc. Then imagine the deaths at Malachor, these Jedi that she has connections to, are killed, almost before her eyes(admittedly it was that she watched from the bridge of a ship, but still...). As this happens, not only does she feel it, she feels their emotions, their screams, their pain.

[arsenalforever]

Kreia could have allowed herself to be killed by Sion on the Harbinger. I don't understand why she underwent the pain of befriending the Exile, teaching her stuff, and finally betraying her.

 

I know she has a grudge with the Force as she was exiled by BOTH the Jedi and the Sith, and it is the Force which drives both these parties.

 

As for the echo, it is simple. With her death, the ideals of the old Jedi order die with her. Thus, an echo.

 

So Kreia's death will cause echoes as you mentioned because the ideals of the old Jedi Order would die with her, but how does dying at the hands of the Exile increase the magnitude of the echoes?

 

Wouldn't echoes by generated if she died at the hands of someone else like Sion on the Harbinger?

 

After Surik defeated Traya, she ordered the generator's activation, destroying the planet and sealing the wound, once and for all

 

The Exile herself was the wound, then how does destroying Malachor seal the wound?

[Rtas Vadum]

Kreia could have allowed herself to be killed by Sion on the Harbinger. I don't understand why she underwent the pain of befriending the Exile, teaching her stuff, and finally betraying her.

 

If she had allowed Sion to kill her there, it would have been foolish. What would've stopped him from tracking the Exile down and killing her, since at that point(even if it would be some time after escaping Peragus), it is doubtful the Exile could take him on and win. There is also the possibliy of the Exile dying along with her, but that is obvious at this point. Also, with Kreia gone, the Exile has no teacher, and also no direction. No notion of where the other Jedi are, much less a reason to seek them out.

 

So Kreia's death will cause echoes as you mentioned because the ideals of the old Jedi Order would die with her, but how does dying at the hands of the Exile increase the magnitude of the echoes?

 

With her death at the hands of the Exile, at that point on Malachor, it allows for things that it wouldn't otherwise. Say if the Exile finds out about her being a Sith on the Ebon Hawk, and kills her right there. That still leaves Nihilus, Sion, along with Atris and any other Jedi that remain, all set in their views of the force, and the galaxy. Perhaps it would work out the same way, but the Enclave scenes would not, especially if playing a LS Exile.

 

The Exile herself was the wound, then how does destroying Malachor seal the wound?

 

If it does, or if sealing them is possible, I can't say. It is just like real places that have had tragic events happen. So long as there is anyone to tell the story, or someone to know of it, the event doesn't fade from memory, even if it might be from the memory of someone who only learned of the event from a book, or a teacher. Even if Malachor is destroyed, that does not change the fact that people died there, nor does it change what happened. But the main reason for the Planet's destruction is the Sith presence, along with the knowledge that is within the Academy.

[RevMg]

Hmm, anyone knows when Kreia meet with Revan for the last time? It was before he left for the Mandalorian Wars, right? Or is there a chance they met on Malachor V? Before Revan left for Unknown Regions. My memories about that are bit clouded. (yea i know, that according to the new canon he wasn't even there but let's stick to what's in the game;p)

[Rtas Vadum]

Hmm, anyone knows when Kreia meet with Revan for the last time? It was before he left for the Mandalorian Wars, right? Or is there a chance they met on Malachor V? Before Revan left for Unknown Regions. My memories about that are bit clouded. (yea i know, that according to the new canon he wasn't even there but let's stick to what's in the game;p)

 

Probably before the Mandalorian wars, due to him going to her, to find out "how one would best leave the order". It is possible that she gained power as a Sith, just as Revan would've began remembering what he'd forgotten, though it happening just after he'd left the Ebon Hawk and T3 on Malachor seems more probable, since it would be sometime after the end of K1 that she becomes such, and sometime before the start of TSL that she is betrayed by the Sith.

 

As for him not being on Malachor in TOR's canon, it has to leave much of TSL in the dust, aside from the Exile, namely the very thing that almost runs the plot of TSL, or is at least, an integral part of it. What is that? Not the Exile, but the Ebon Hawk. If the idea is, that if Revan left it and T3 on Malachor, Kreia would've used it after her betrayal by Sion and Nihilus, to leave Malachor and seek out the Exile. Also, if it means he'd never set foot on Malachor(during or after the Mandalorian wars, or even after the end of the Jedi Civil war, when he would've remembered the planet), only viewing it from a ship, how could he possibly know about the real threat, since that is where TSL says he learned of it? But either way, I can't see how it fits, if Revan was never on Malachor.

[arsenalforever]

Kreia's lucky that Sion and Nihlius let her leave out of Malachor alive. The Sith are not known for such acts of kindness lol

 

Kreia only wants to die to create echoes doesn't she? It doesn't matter who kills her as long as she ends up dead right? No matter who kills her, the ideals of the Old Jedi Order die with her right?

 

After Surik defeated Traya, she ordered the generator's activation, destroying the planet and sealing the wound, once and for all

 

I got this line from Wookiepedia.

 

And Rtas Vadum, what is your opinion on the bond shared by Visas Marr and Nihilius?

[JCarter426]

Kreia's lucky that Sion and Nihlius let her leave out of Malachor alive. The Sith are not known for such acts of kindness lol

They didn't let her live. They thought they had killed her. She is difficult to kill.

Kreia only wants to die to create echoes doesn't she? It doesn't matter who kills her as long as she ends up dead right? No matter who kills her, the ideals of the Old Jedi Order die with her right?

No, she wants her apprentice to kill her - that's the way of the Sith, and fits with her philosophy of learning through conflict. The Exile gave up the Force and Kreia respects that, she wants the Exile to grow stronger. And it's also a bit of an ego trip, because none of her other apprentices could kill her, which would suggest she's a horrible teacher who, without the Exile, would leave behind no legacy.

[arsenalforever]

Wounds in the Force were created whenever a massive loss of life occurred. All life in the galaxy was interconnected and when a significant number of lives were suddenly ended, the Force sustained a localized injury much like a sentient who had lost a limb. The epicenter of the wound became a dark place, filled with the reverberating echoes of the pain, terror, and suffering of the life forms who had lost their lives. Wounds in the Force were most often centered in astrographical locations where traumatic events took place, such as Malachor V or Alderaan, but they could also form within individuals such as Meetra Surik or Darth Nihilus.

 

 

So the death of Kreia at the hands of the Exile would create echoes because with her death die the ideals of the old jedi order right? And she wants to continue the "tradition" of the Sith in which the apprentice kills the master once the former is stronger?

 

And why does Wookiepedia say that the final destruction of Malachor "sealed" the wound?

 

It seems that at the times of stress - and pain, if it catches us unawares, then the pain is transmitted between us

 

Kreia says the above line to the Exile on the Ebon Hawk. She wasn't lying this time and at Malachor, the two of them were not caught unaware, thus Kreia's death DID NOT lead to the Exile's death.

 

Another thing, when Moza the Ithorian visits us on Telos for the first time in Residential Module 082 he says that upon the Exile's arrival, Chodo Habat felt a "disturbance or echo in the force"

 

So does even a simple thing like the Exile's arrival on Telos create echoes in the Force? Just because of what the Exile went through at Malachor V, his arrival on planets can be sensed by other Force sensitives?

[Obi-Wan Bologna]

So the death of Kreia at the hands of the Exile would create echoes because with her death die the ideals of the old jedi order right? And she wants to continue the "tradition" of the Sith in which the apprentice kills the master once the former is stronger?

 

And why does Wookiepedia say that the final destruction of Malachor "sealed" the wound?

 

 

 

Kreia says the above line to the Exile on the Ebon Hawk. She wasn't lying this time and at Malachor, the two of them were not caught unaware, thus Kreia's death DID NOT lead to the Exile's death.

 

Another thing, when Moza the Ithorian visits us on Telos for the first time in Residential Module 082 he says that upon the Exile's arrival, Chodo Habat felt a "disturbance or echo in the force"

 

So does even a simple thing like the Exile's arrival on Telos create echoes in the Force? Just because of what the Exile went through at Malachor V, his arrival on planets can be sensed by other Force sensitives?

 

Well that is nothing new, we knew of that in the first Star Wars movie where Vader senses Obi-Wan on board the Death Star

[arsenalforever]

I wanted to ask something about Nihilius too. He showed something to Visas which ruined her ability to see through the Force. What did he show her? Did her eyes function normally before?

 

And what does she do to the Exile's eyes when we first encounter and fight with her? I asked Kreia but she says that Visas didn't do anything.

 

And just because she lost to the Exile, Visas stopped serving Nihilus? How come?

 

Is there a way to use her Force sight in the game? I tried looking using Visas in first person mode but wasn't able to see anything special?

[TKA-001]

And what does she do to the Exile's eyes when we first encounter and fight with her? I asked Kreia but she says that Visas didn't do anything.

As I understand it, during your fight with Visas she's supposed to hit you with some Force power that makes it so you see everything through the funky technicolor Force sight effect; but it was cut or they forgot to actually put that part in, but the dialogue where you discuss it with Kreia still remains.

 

And just because she lost to the Exile, Visas stopped serving Nihilus? How come?

I don't quite remember it all, but I figure that she got screwed up in the head when she fails to capture you, and you don't kill her. And if you're male, then after the Jedi get killed on Dantooine she gives you some sappy talk about how she loved you ever since she felt you through the Force or some ****. I only remember bits and pieces.

 

Furthermore, Nihilus told Visas to bring you to her; so I imagine that in some sense Visas considers herself to be fulfilling that assignment by protecting you, and you plan on running into Nihilus eventually anyway.

 

Is there a way to use her Force sight in the game? I tried looking using Visas in first person mode but wasn't able to see anything special?

It should work when you use first-person mode as either Visas or Kreia; I think that it doesn't work unless the game is patched or something, but I don't remember. I also think that if you have high enough influence with Visas you can ask her to teach you the Force sight thingy, and it's like a power you can activate which, while it does create the visual effect, doesn't actually do anything.

[arsenalforever]

Taken aboard Nihilus's ship, she awoke to find that the flesh where her eyes would have been had been removed. Distraught, she sought out the Dark Lord, questioning why she alone had been spared.

 

Fractured and vulnerable at best, overwhelmed by the dark power surrounding him, Marr allowed Nihilus to take her for his own. In an attempt to make her believe in his cause, Nihilus showed her a vision, forcing her to see the galaxy in a way that her people never could; sentient beings on other planets, disconnected from the life surrounding them, unable to feel the Force.

 

The vision severely damaged Marr's Force Sight—which she, as a Miraluka, had to solely rely on, having no physical sight—and she became convinced that all life must die.

 

 

 

I found the above lines on Wookiepedia but they don't seem to make any sense? What did Nihilus show Visas?

 

And I believe that the Exile's reconnection to the Force sent out echoes which was the reason that Nihilus and Visas sensed her in the first place? Am I right?

[Rtas Vadum]

I found the above lines on Wookiepedia but they don't seem to make any sense? What did Nihilus show Visas?

 

He would show her the world(likely universe in this case) as he saw it. As she likely was at that point, a sole survivor on a decimated planet, it would have been bad enough to see the world through the force, and subsequently see every flame of life around you suddenly extinguished, is bad enough(along with having a certain resemblance to the Exile). But then to have Nihilus find her, and open her eyes to the dead world, likely far worse than she had been able to see it otherwise, is likely what damaged her sight.

 

And I believe that the Exile's reconnection to the Force sent out echoes which was the reason that Nihilus and Visas sensed her in the first place? Am I right?

 

Yes, and no. Everything in the galaxy feels the force, but it takes something to be able to perceive it in a way that one can make use of it. The sort that occurs when the Exile first regains the force can almost be seen like the birth of a child - as much as they might be tied to the force, it is hard to tell how well. However, the point that Nihlius realizes that you might be a threat to him, is when the Exile obtains a sufficient alignment(I'm not sure exactly when this is, likely about 25% either way shows the cut-scenes that prelude Visas' arrival).

[arsenalforever]

The vision severely damaged Marr's Force Sight—which she, as a Miraluka, had to solely rely on, having no physical sight—and she became convinced that all life must die.

 

In an attempt to make her believe in his cause, Nihilus showed her a vision, forcing her to see the galaxy in a way that her people never could; sentient beings on other planets, disconnected from the life surrounding them, unable to feel the Force.

 

He showed her people living without the Force and this damaged her vision? And she became convinced that all life must die?

 

 

But then why did she pledge herself to the Exile after being given mercy? What did she see in the Exile? She just sensed the Exile through the force but nothing more right?

[JCarter426]

Yes, and no. Everything in the galaxy feels the force, but it takes something to be able to perceive it in a way that one can make use of it. The sort that occurs when the Exile first regains the force can almost be seen like the birth of a child - as much as they might be tied to the force, it is hard to tell how well. However, the point that Nihlius realizes that you might be a threat to him, is when the Exile obtains a sufficient alignment(I'm not sure exactly when this is, likely about 25% either way shows the cut-scenes that prelude Visas' arrival).

It triggers when you alignment reaches 25 or 75 (75% dark or light), or you've gained 50 total alignment points, or after you find your third master. At least that's what the script says it's supposed to do; it also says it doesn't fire until after you have left Telos and arrived on another planet, but I'm pretty sure that's not true.

 

They're able to sense the Exile at this because the Exile casts such strong echoes in the Force - basically, the more stuff you do, the stronger your presence becomes, more noticeable. It's not really that they couldn't sense it before... they just couldn't discern the Exile from the rest of the universe. Nihilus seems especially blind to it, because they're both wounds in the Force; he's blinded by all his power, which casts the same kind of echo. Visas, however, is able to sense a subtle difference between them, and so she could track down the Exile.

He showed her people living without the Force and this damaged her vision? And she became convinced that all life must die?

No, it's... it's a bit more complicated than that. The Jedi - all Force users, really - believe that nothing can exist without the Force, at least not in this form. It's as part of the universe as gravity, electromagnetism, or the nuclear forces. It always has been and it always will be. But Nihilus exists only to feed on the Force, to destroy life. He's like a black hole - a point where the laws of the universe as we understand them cease to function. Nihilus showed Visas the universe as he sees it... the echo that he was creating, to devour the universe. And it scares the hell out of her. I think it drives her a big crazy, she gets Stockholm syndrome on a galactic scale. She clings to the belief that such a being must exist for a reason, that he's bigger than the universe, that the universe needs to die to feed his hunger.

But then why did she pledge herself to the Exile after being given mercy? What did she see in the Exile? She just sensed the Exile through the force but nothing more right?

The Exile is proof that life can exist without the Force, and she sees in this a power that rivals Nihilus.

[arsenalforever]

Thanks a lot.

 

Another thing, GOTO wanted the Jedi alive in order to stabilize the Republic. He himself said that they were no use to him dead, but the HK-50's we encounter always want to kill the Exile, why?

 

And if we have G0-T0 in our party whilst encountering the HK-50's will he tell them to stop hunting me? I tried that but he doesn't say anything to the HK-50's.

 

And Zez Kai Ell himself said to the Exile that he/she was right in going to the war and that he had lost belief in Jedi Teachings. He laments the Council's decision to exile us and says that the Jedi Council was very arrogant, but when we return to Dantooine, he seems to be looking forward to cutting the Exile off from the Force and all the other masters behave just like Vrook. Doesn't that piss you off?

 

EDIT:

 

Ooh and another thing, why are the HK-50's interested in obtaining Vogga's Launch Codes from T3-M4 in Vogga's Warehouse?

[TKA-001]

Another thing, GOTO wanted the Jedi alive in order to stabilize the Republic. He himself said that they were no use to him dead, but the HK-50's we encounter always want to kill the Exile, why?

Frankly, I think it's a plot hole. He wants you to help him preserve the Republic, so he sends a ****ton of droids and people (why not just messengers?) to kill you so that he can hire you. The bounty hunters are constantly telling you that "no one will care as long as I bring them your carcass", so clearly he didn't do a very good job at emphasizing the "alive" part.

 

And if we have G0-T0 in our party whilst encountering the HK-50's will he tell them to stop hunting me? I tried that but he doesn't say anything to the HK-50's.

I don't remember ever being attacked by HK-50s (after Telos) in an unmodded game.

 

And Zez Kai Ell himself said to the Exile that he/she was right in going to the war and that he had lost belief in Jedi Teachings. He laments the Council's decision to exile us and says that the Jedi Council was very arrogant, but when we return to Dantooine, he seems to be looking forward to cutting the Exile off from the Force and all the other masters behave just like Vrook. Doesn't that piss you off?

Technically Zez never (I think) says that she were right to join the war, just that the Council made a grave mistake in showing her the door instead of trying to understand why their Jedi kept falling to the dark side (or something).

 

As for his apparent change of mind, it is presumed that Vrook and Kavar spoke to him off-screen and convinced him to go along with their sentencing of the Exile (assuming he was every actually against it in the first place).

 

Ooh and another thing, why are the HK-50's interested in obtaining Vogga's Launch Codes from T3-M4 in Vogga's Warehouse?

Because the HK-50s work for Goto (though this is never confirmed in an unmodded game) and Goto uses the codes to locate and hijack Vogga's ships.

 

On another note, I wonder why the HKs need to steal the launch codes from T3 if Goto's apparently been hijacking the freighters for some time. And why Vogga's one-story warehouse is literally next-door to his apartmen- I mean, his "palace".

[JCarter426]

Another thing, GOTO wanted the Jedi alive in order to stabilize the Republic. He himself said that they were no use to him dead, but the HK-50's we encounter always want to kill the Exile, why?

Frankly, I think it's a plot hole. He wants you to help him preserve the Republic, so he sends a ****ton of droids and people (why not just messengers?) to kill you so that he can hire you. The bounty hunters are constantly telling you that "no one will care as long as I bring them your carcass", so clearly he didn't do a very good job at emphasizing the "alive" part.

The HKs don't want to kill the Exile. They are quite clear about this. They don't have any problem seriously wounding the Exile in the process, but their intent is not to kill.

 

On the other hand, the HKs probably like killing as much as their predecessor, so they could just be lying; the bounty hunters in general seem to be looking for an excuse to kill the Exile, even if that's against Goto's orders. So it's not a plot hole; Goto explicitly says they are going against his orders, but that he doesn't mind much because any Jedi who could be killed by bounty hunters is worthless to him.

And Zez Kai Ell himself said to the Exile that he/she was right in going to the war and that he had lost belief in Jedi Teachings. He laments the Council's decision to exile us and says that the Jedi Council was very arrogant, but when we return to Dantooine, he seems to be looking forward to cutting the Exile off from the Force and all the other masters behave just like Vrook. Doesn't that piss you off?

Technically Zez never (I think) says that she were right to join the war, just that the Council made a grave mistake in showing her the door instead of trying to understand why their Jedi kept falling to the dark side (or something).

Nah, he flat out says "You were right to do what you did. Everything you did."

As for his apparent change of mind, it is presumed that Vrook and Kavar spoke to him off-screen and convinced him to go along with their sentencing of the Exile (assuming he was every actually against it in the first place).

I don't really think changed his mind, he was just a hypocrite. I agree the others likely coaxed him - particularly Kavar, since he seems to do whatever Kavar says - but I don't think he ever had a change of heart. He and Vrook are rather consistent in their feelings... it's Kavar who stabs you in the back.

Because the HK-50s work for Goto (though this is never confirmed in an unmodded game) and Goto uses the codes to locate and hijack Vogga's ships.

No mods needed, he'll admit to it if you have enough influence to ask him about his operations. They don't work exclusively for Goto, though.

On another note, I wonder why the HKs need to steal the launch codes from T3 if Goto's apparently been hijacking the freighters for some time.

They never say they were stealing them, just that they wouldn't let T3 leave with them. However, I can't recall if they're among the bounty hunters who board Goto's yacht. Perhaps they did want the codes, to use as leverage against Goto.

And why Vogga's one-story warehouse is literally next-door to his apartmen- I mean, his "palace".

That wasn't his usual abode. All the hijacking made him so paranoid he moved in right next door to his warehouse to keep an eye on it.

[arsenalforever]

If you see the Exile's conversation with Zez on Nar Shaddaa, you'll clearly see him taking the Exile's side and talking about his decision to leave the Council on the very day the Exile was cast out. He also said that it wasn't the Exile's fault that he went to war and that he had lost Padawans who joined the war too. I really thought he was different from Vrook but then again on Dantooine he finally turns out to be as cranky and stingy as Vrook and possesses the same "arrogance" which he detests so much. Hypocrite alert lol.

 

Atleast Vrook is honest about hating the Exile from the beginning, but Zez really pissed me off lol.

[Rtas Vadum]

If you see the Exile's conversation with Zez on Nar Shaddaa, you'll clearly see him taking the Exile's side and talking about his decision to leave the Council on the very day the Exile was cast out. He also said that it wasn't the Exile's fault that he went to war and that he had lost Padawans who joined the war too. I really thought he was different from Vrook but then again on Dantooine he finally turns out to be as cranky and stingy as Vrook and possesses the same "arrogance" which he detests so much. Hypocrite alert lol.

 

Atleast Vrook is honest about hating the Exile from the beginning, but Zez really pissed me off lol.

 

The answer is, somewhat simple. I think this was said before, but I can't be sure. But the reason they all take a stance against you? They think the Exile's power is exactly like Nihlius' power, even if they don't know of him specifically. The best way to explain it, is to see people like a container of water. While Nihlius will drain it completely, and stop it from being refilled, the Exile takes the excess, whatever spills over when it is already full. It is interesting that they fail to take into consideration anything the the Exile says, even when she went so far as to prove many times over just how much of a Jedi they are(barring Kreia's explanation of the whole thing, mind you, but they don't know that). But them being hypocritical somewhat makes sense. The have firm ideals on what a Jedi is, and when the Exile doesn't fit this, they might not exactly consider them a Sith, but in the least, a threat to what being a Jedi is/means.

[arsenalforever]

Also another thing, when we speak to Kavar on Onderon after the Civil War, he says that the Jedi in order to hide themselves, went to planets touched by war because it would be difficult for the Sith to detect them through the Force in such planets right? But later he says

 

"Worlds touched by war, or great tragedies, can be felt within the Force...strongly"

 

Isn't this a contradiction to what he says earlier?

 

Also, he says that the echoes they felt from the Exile were similar to those they felt from the Sith threat, so how does cutting the Exile off from the Force help them achieve anything?

 

Here's a list of all the things the Exile did for the Republic:

 

1. Aided in the restoration effort on Telos by helping the Ithorians

2. Offered help against the Sith threat to Atris and the Masters

3. Crippled the Exchange (On Telos and Nar Shaddaa)

4. Destroyed Goto's yatch.

5. Helped the settlers on Dantooine and protected Khoonda from the mercenary attack.

6. Helped Queen Talia on Onderon

 

Zez himself admitted that he saw the Exile run around Nar Shaddaa helping those in the Refugee Sector, etc. and felt ashamed that he didn't try to help people. He commended the Exile for his efforts, and what does he do on Dantooine?

 

Even after seeing the Exile do so much, why do the Masters still believe him/her to be the threat to them? Just because he turned away from the Force? Just because he didn't rely on the Force as heavily as they did? Atleast he/she helped the Republic, the Jedi Masters were just hiding and doing nothing.

[Rtas Vadum]

Also another thing, when we speak to Kavar on Onderon after the Civil War, he says that the Jedi in order to hide themselves, went to planets touched by war because it would be difficult for the Sith to detect them through the Force in such planets right? But later he says

 

"Worlds touched by war, or great tragedies, can be felt within the Force...strongly"

 

Isn't this a contradiction to what he says earlier?

 

It seems to be, but the problem is that, those who do feel echos of the tragedies that occurred, find only that it is difficult to feel anything else. So on these worlds, touched by war, those looking would find only these echos, while the Masters remain hidden behind it.

 

Also, he says that the echoes they felt from the Exile were similar to those they felt from the Sith threat, so how does cutting the Exile off from the Force help them achieve anything?

 

It obviously doesn't, or rather it wouldn't have, if it was possible to go through with it. But they don't see that. They care little for how much of a help you have been to the galaxy. All that matters to them are the fact that the Exile forms bonds with others, in order to strengthen herself. Here, there seems to be no problem. However, they believe that the Exile leeches far more than excess, and therein is the problem. They take the Exile for what they seem to be, nothing more.

 

Zez himself admitted that he saw the Exile run around Nar Shaddaa helping those in the Refugee Sector, etc. and felt ashamed that he didn't try to help people. He commended the Exile for his efforts, and what does he do on Dantooine?

 

He, and the rest of the Jedi Masters were trying to hide from the Sith. If they acted themselves, they would've drew their attention, and been unable to fight them off, especially alone. However, despite what he says, he is still a Jedi, and obviously a Master at that. Even if he did gain some truth in his exile, upon returning to being the thing he had been avoiding, along with it comes the same bloody problems, as it caused before.

 

Even after seeing the Exile do so much, why do the Masters still believe him/her to be the threat to them? Just because he turned away from the Force? Just because he didn't rely on the Force as heavily as they did? Atleast he/she helped the Republic, the Jedi Masters were just hiding and doing nothing.

 

One problem that exists within the Jedi, and the Sith. Both groups are hell bent on the mantra of "There is No life without the Force". As Jedi, they are already arrogant enough to think, One, that they, as Jedi, can learn all the secrets the force holds(without ever having to feel the dark side), and two, that the dark side is a perversion of the force, and not at all what it should be. What they not only fail to realize, but refuse to, is that the force is not simply a power in which a user can chose a single side, and expect to understand it.

 

However, it comes down to a single thing, said a few times over: her unique connection, her ability to form bonds(or his, of course). It isn't something they can understand, and thus, when one finds something they cannot understand, what is the first emotion to arise? Fear. Even beyond that, how could they possibly learn to feel the force as the Exile does? In the moment Kreia shows them this, they die. So they, in another display of their arrogance, decide to break her connection, and nothing else. They expect that the Sith will show themselves, that there will be ground to fight on, planned and understood by all. But they should've understood then, that after Katar, that isn't how it works, or how it is going to work. Even Kavar, who almost seems to have known that Vaklu was getting help from the Sith, and what does he do? Act as a bodyguard for Queen Talia. Nothing else.