Jedi verse Jedi, Sabers Only

[DeathBoLT]

How will saber fighting be different from what we saw in Jedi Knight? If blocking is to be better, will saber duels focus on outmanevuevering your opponent to strike at his vunerable back side? Will the objective in saber duels be to disable your opponents blocking temporarily by stunning him(maybe with a strong force atttack or successeful physical assault)?

 

This is all assuming the game doesn't become totally focused on force use and gun control like we saw in JK-- which I certainly hope JK2 isn't a mere clone of.

 

If blocking is as easy to do as the AI manages to pull off, the saber wielder will have a near impenetrable shield in front of him via blocking, thus making it neccessary to try and outmanevuer him to strike at a relatively vunerable backside, or require us to execute a attack(that would have to be fairly simple to deflect) that would temporarily stun the enemy and lower the blocking ability of the opponent. I wouldn't complain if they did it this way and would actually enjoy it if they handeled it right.

 

Your guy's thoughts? How do you all think saber vs. saber duels should be handeled.

[wikedjedi]

i say it we'll be using the same tactics, but it'll be a lot better on dedicated servers

 

also, in the preveiw by the japenese chick, at the end where you see kyle fighting another jedi... was that mp, there were three there, have havent checked it out fully or read any prevweiws that might tell me about, so mainly im asking ya'll

 

wiked

[UberChild]

Sounds like a possible idea dude, i thought the main thing in jk was to as ya mention get beghind your opponent/out menouvre them, and also i big part of winning a saber fight was timing.. timing your swing to hit after they thave swung adn are vulnerable while keeping them in front of you to block them.. i hope they dont change that part of it too much, maybe a kick or something will stun you opponent, but you need to be close to try it, and it is a risky move.. but if ya pull it off it pays off.. do you guys know what i mean??

[SlowbieOne]

They still haven't said whethere or not there will be a block button for sabers.

Personally I would rather have a block button to use rather than depend on the AI blocking for me. But I think it would only work if they made it an instantaeous action. That way, duels can rely on mainly on reflexes and counterattacks.

 

Here's how I would I would handle it:

Have a block button, primary and secondary swing, and evade key.

 

I think they should make different combinations of primary and secondary swings and directions to handle the combos.

For instance:

Primary, Secondary, Primary... and all different variations up to four or five moves in succession. If they do it right and make enough different types of saber attacks, there could be tons of ways to fight a duel, instead of JK's few ways.

 

If there is no block button, I don't see how there will be any strategy involved. How will you strike a hit if it auto blocks, not to mention the saber clashes. The idea of having to sneak around the backside is very JK-ish. I want something JKO-ish. I want to be able to stand my ground, and block when I want, not when the AI says it's OK. Am I alone here? Who else thinks auto-blocking is the wrong way to go?

[tulwinn]

I was trying to think of a way manual blockng could work. I first of all thought of the Star Wars trilogy arcade. Although the sabre fighting wasnt perfect (I kept pushing up for down thinking I was still in the x-wing) I thought something similar might work for JKO.

 

After thinking some more though, lag could cause problems for this, its bad enough turning to face someone with bad lag, without turning and trying to swing in the right direction to block.

 

ANy thoughts on this?

[?DrIfTeR?]

i agree with manual blocking nd someone with lag = easy kills for them,and too many buttons makes me have to think faster and use more of my keyboard,but as long as the game is tight ill be cool with it.

[UberChild]

I agree with the last couple of posts.. a block button would be very difficult to use, specially with lag to consider.. i thought the auto block in jk was pretty cool, to get a hit ya had to trick your opponent into swinging and then after they have done a big swing they are wide open to be hit, since they cant auto block when the saber is out to the side.. this way you still needed skill to get the kill, but it wasnt too easy.. maybe they could implement a block button for those who want it and auto for those who want auto.. maybe an option in gameplay menu.. then those with auto can perfect that if they want adn those who like auto can use that..?? adn this way there is no dependency on sneaking up behind or gettin behind an opponent. umm does that make sense..?

[GA zaarinn]

i hope that u could train in the jedi academy on yavin 4 and also explore the whole academy

[tulwinn]

Originally posted by SkUnkY_OuNcE:

<STRONG>maybe an option in gameplay menu.. then those with auto can perfect that if they want adn those who like auto can use that..?? adn this way there is no dependency on sneaking up behind or gettin behind an opponent. umm does that make sense..? </STRONG>

 

I think I follow and I have someting that might make it better. if they can make the manual blocking more effective than auto but not unfairly so, there is incentive for people to learn it. For those who cant for whatever reason do manual blocking there is the auto but less effective method.

[SlowbieOne]

Having an option for auto-block, or setting it up as a key you want is a great idea. The best of both worlds.

 

And as far as having a block button affect lag, it won't matter. If you are lagging, you won't have a place in the JK2 online community, plain and simple. And by lagging i mean you have a 56k modem or less.

 

[ August 29, 2001: Message edited by: SlowbieOne ]

[Guest Kurgan]

56k or less? I think that's the majority of internet users, but oh well...

 

HARDCORE!

 

Kurgan

[SlowbieOne]

Yes, it's sad but true. But as times change so do a lot of people's internet connections.

[Guest JediKnight_114[b]]

*sighs* I have DSL, but can't even use it since I am in the middle of a move. oh well.

[Tap[RR]]

Originally posted by mostly harmless:

<STRONG>I was trying to think of a way manual blockng could work. I first of all thought of the Star Wars trilogy arcade. Although the sabre fighting wasnt perfect (I kept pushing up for down thinking I was still in the x-wing) I thought something similar might work for JKO.

 

After thinking some more though, lag could cause problems for this, its bad enough turning to face someone with bad lag, without turning and trying to swing in the right direction to block.

 

ANy thoughts on this?</STRONG>

 

 

Errm It wouldnt be very laggy, your talking about the jk netcode, it WOULD lag like hell on jk's crappy netcode. But not q3's, man why does everyone expect jk2 to have the same crappy netcode as jk? Jeez should be in some faq.

 

Another Example!

 

I agree with the last couple of posts.. a block button would be very difficult to use, specially with lag to consider..

 

UGH!!! Why and i say this again, why does everyone think jk2's netcode will suck, like jk's!!? As ive said before, with the new q3 patch i get low low pings when playing the urban terror mod for q3, ( not just urban terror either ) less big buldgy red line and "connection error" symbol at the top left corner, really does make diffrence! So stop worrying!

 

i thought the auto block in jk was pretty cool, to get a hit ya had to trick your opponent into swinging and then after they have done a big swing they are wide open to be hit, since they cant auto block when the saber is out to the side.. this way you still needed skill to get the kill, but it wasnt too easy..

 

Dude, it WAS very very very very very easy and lame, looked retarded, after awhile it was like " i know your waiting for me to double swing ". Sure the strategy worked, (if lag didnt blow it) but it looked cheap, boring, and VERY VERY easy to master.

 

I say Jk2's system should rely on hitting the other guys saber so hard he looses it ( they've confirmed sabers being hit outta hands ) so then the other jedi would have to use the force (actually put the force to use and not as another weapon like in Jk) to reterieve it, but not just that, it should take reflexes, and strategy! Im thinking the saber could be lost from being punched or kicked, loosing your saber would be pretty much like a stun, but a stun you could counter using your reflexes,some evasion moves, and the force!( not just stand there and look at pretty stars, like most stuns )

 

[ August 29, 2001: Message edited by: Tap[RR] ]

[SlowbieOne]

Hey Tap, I think you are confusing the statement of being able to hit a "Flying Saber" out of the air, rather than being able to hit the saber out of the opponents hands.

 

If you have read this though, where? Sorry if I'm wrong.

 

I also agree with you on lag.

 

"This isn't Kansas anymore."

 

JK netcode sucked royally, there was lag even on LAN games, I don't care how many people tell me there was not. JK2 will not consist of lag, giving saber duels the ability to be interesting and much more strategy based.

 

[ August 29, 2001: Message edited by: SlowbieOne ]

[Tap[RR]]

Yeah some of the previews have mentioned saber being able to be lost. (probally not being able to be force pulled, but hit out, with a barage of attacks) Errm in the video the dark jedi clearly loses his/her saber,steps up retrieves it and reignites it. It also explains why the dark jedi was force pulling her/his saber back into his/her hand in the pic.

 

[ August 30, 2001: Message edited by: Tap[RR] ]

[tulwinn]

Well I dont people were saying netcode will suck, it uses the QIII engine so netcode is already proven. In Sabre fights though, I would have thought theres a lot less time to react.

[Jedi Howell1587246488]

Q3 netcode is good; no question on that...

 

on a previous section of this topic(the part about auto-blocking vs. manual):

 

Possibly an advantage to manual blocking will be back-blocking, but also slows u down(moving, not swinging) considerably? 'cause I heard some people talking about how back-blocking was cool, but would be unfair to gunners. This wd(if implemented correctly) please every1, and wd also give a reason to coerce people into manual, but wd give the extremely casual players a reason to just skip it('cause of the speed change). Also, if ur running in a guns & sabers game, u dont want to slow down w/ manual blocking, therefore leaving u open to attack there. Maybe, back-blocking wd have a lower success rate than front blocking.

 

any ideas?

 

jh

[Chewie_Rips]

I think allowing the users both options, is the best way to go, when considering auto vs manual blocking. I would prefer there to be manual blocking, with an hot key. One of the most overlooked problems, imho, for jk saber duels was the lack of defensive options, as you incorporated offensive stratagies. Allot of saber players, like my self, would just hold down primary one, as a defensive and offensive stratagey, as you could be swinging and be moving all the time, making your opponets less likely to chrage in. The reason players do, and did this, was straffing and circling were important when facing more skilled opponets. Since your player was always at a angle, or diagnal to oppents in your view, the auto blocking funciton was very unperdictable, especailly when you play with players, or you use, " high" senstive mouse settings, causing, waprping, etc. This made timing z swings( which is really the only time you were vulnerable, if your holding down primary and moving quickly.)very important. This caused players who were in duels to be more spaced out, players moving in U shape patterns, tring to get in and out after oppents swings, and on the side an behind players. To me, saber fights should be more like sword fights, were blocking is as important to winning, as offensive attacks. Not only do i think there should be manual blocking, but directional blocking as well. Menaing you could block to the left, right, high and low. This way you dont have to be perfectly square with your opponent to block attacks. There should be more emphaisis on saber swings in JKO that will enable you to aim, high, low, and middle, and then counter blocks for the same. This way if you try and swing for someones head, they can counter block. If you swing high, and then say for somones leg, and they only block high, they will then take a shot in the leg...and so on..My ideas may be out of wack a little, but anything to improve the invlovemnt of defence, will help getting saber dules more like sword fights( i hate to use that reference). This will help making saber fights closer in combat, etc, which will be even better do the fact that JKO will not suffer from the lag set backs that jk did....

[Tre Lightshadow]

I think manual blocking will be too difficult to do. The saber swings fast and with lag added in, it will be very off key. Just as long as Outcast resembles Saber Battle X (the best mod), I'll be happy.

[CaptainRAVE]

Originally posted by Tre Lightshadow:

<STRONG>I think manual blocking will be too difficult to do. The saber swings fast and with lag added in, it will be very off key. Just as long as Outcast resembles Saber Battle X (the best mod), I'll be happy.</STRONG>

 

Surely you dont want it like it was in JK!!! Kyle missed 70% of the time and was really annoying. I think there should be an option so people who want totall control like me can have auto block OFF!!!!!!

[SlowbieOne]

This excerpt comes from Lucasarts page:

 

Expanded and enhanced use of the lightsaber features a slew of attack and DEFENSE moves.

 

A slew? How many different ways could you block? I like the sound of that.

 

Maybe they have something up their sleeves, but I'm still hoping for a block button(or at least an option), and different ways to block.

 

[ August 30, 2001: Message edited by: SlowbieOne ]

[RAVEN1587246518]

I belive that the best way would be to make the left click attack, and right click block. attacking while hitting foward would produce one kind of slash while hitting back and slash produces another kind ect., the same system with the blocking. this would work best with location based dmg sould a slash to the body or head would kill with one hit, while a slash in the arm would make ur slash wilder and blockind less effective, and a slash in the legs would make ya slower.

[matt--]

Oh look, another fraud.

[acdcfanbill]

what?!?! fruad, huh where??? oh... [action]points up[/action]