ff guns

[wikedjedi]

Will ff guns be as good as in JK/Mots? With new force powers and different guns(which we dont know yet) will it be any good?

 

The new powers add a lot of concerns such as:

Force Grip/choke - hopefully there wont be a super to it, and it will only last 2 or 3 seconds, reason being that it drops the weapon you have making it harder to interupt it. If you can just keep choking them and there can hardly attack you the force would be to powerful. But if it lasted 2 or 3 second or maybe evan more, then it would be more fair.

Force shock - In JK, force lighting was useless, but in Mots it was very effected mainly because you could target it like grip. Hopefully it will be targeted in JO, and in the interveiw at e3 it seems like it is.

- Other powers, like confuse will probally be useless in mp

???force absorb??? - will this be in it?, and if so will it keep grip/choke from droping the players weapon?

 

Another big thing for ff guns will be if the games forces will be light vs dark like in JK, or mixed together in Mots. Mots ff guns games were all about camping the surges, the only way you could kill the other guy is if you freeze him, but that was only in spaceport, in other levels, ff guns games were really good. And in JK everything seems to be balance good, hopefully it will be like that.

 

wiked

[wardz]

I'd rather you avoid surges in the game but would rather your mana gained faster, adds a more organic feel to it.

 

I agree with choke, hopefully it will incapacitate you rather than kill you in half a second, and if you absorb the choke you wont stay stuck on the same spot.

 

wardz

[SlowbieOne]

I thought i read in one of the previews that the dark jedi blocked Kyle's Force Pull. I wonder if that will be replacing absorb.

 

If so, does that mean you will be able to block other powers like choke and shock?

 

Avoiding surges is a great idea. I thought it was really stupid, especially in MotS. Entire games depended on who controled the surge. From the E3 demo, I honestly liked the looks of how fast the force regenerated. Wasn't too fast, but not slow enough to slow the pace of the game. Yes, much better than timing the surge.

[KillerBee]

Yeah surges annoyed me in jk, whilst I would control them, it was a matter of necessity.

but it ruined levels when I started really controlling items.. you could own votjt without moving..

 

FF guns I dont reckon will be the same..

and in a way I really hope it isn't.. ff guns whilst being imho still the second greatest DM 1 v 1 arena, (first being hf guns ) is best left in jk, if its just ported to q3 engine, it wont have the levels, or dynamics, it will be messed up, and ruin jk2 for me..

but anyway the dark v light thing was imho great, and is needed..

but maybe so there are only 2 top powers for each side to pick, the rest being the same..

maybe something like overwhelm wif life energy or something, that disable the darkys ability to use his top powers for 5 secs or something replacing absorb, something needing a more active role.

[wikedjedi]

that would be great if dark jedi could block pull, one reason i play as a light in ff guns is because i can get my weapon pull.

And hopefully, there wont be surges, maybe power boosts if anything. Ive had a lot of great games and Hutts and Cargo(no surge or boosts) and enjoy them much more that ff port or oasis

[WD_ToRMeNt]

No one knows how much will change from JK to JK2. Remember quake has quad damage, invisibility, and regeneration powerups. These along the same concepts as the surge, super shield, and power boost of JK. Q3TA has even more.

 

I certainly want a surge. I loved how JK had the dual item respawn times (30 pull, 60 run) and I hope they keep it that way in JK2.

[Syndrix]

God I hope JK doesnt have surges, not only because of its effects in gameplay but also how realistic is it that you can recharge you force off of some object. As FPS's progress I think we need to get to the point where even in fantasy/Sci-fi games things need to make sense, in that universe.

 

[ August 22, 2001: Message edited by: Syndrix ]

[Guest Kurgan]

How are surges "not realistic" this is fantasy! Besides, ever hear of the "Kyburr Crystal"?

 

Kurgan

[DeathBoLT]

id like to see random spawn times on powerups..

[KillerBee]

random spawn times would suck..

 

Surges imho are to focal to gameplay, especially on levels like bgj.

I dont think one item should be so important, and would rather see the surge lessened to a full mana replenish powerup, or just removed.

 

and in quake pents, and quads had extra long spawn times, in jk, a ss pulled spawns when the effect wears off, thats kinda bad, seeing you can camp it and be totally invulnerable (I just wish editors could get this, one of the mlp levels was totally spoilt by having a conky, and ss in the same room, at the top of a large slow lift.. which seeing the game had been out 3 years, and the most annoying thing in the history of jk, the ss camp had been shown quite effectivly is kinda strange..

 

[ August 22, 2001: Message edited by: KillerBee ]

[AB]

I'm hoping that if they do have a Force Absorb/Block, that you will be able to block certain blaster bolts with it.

For example, the Blastech, the Stromie rifle and the repeater should be blockable, but heavier blasts like the concussion rifles shouldn't. Bowcaster, I haven't decided on--it is a big weapon, but the bolts seem to average-sized.

[Wilhuf]

Seeing how object spawn times in Elite Force depend on the number of players in-game, I wouldn't be surprised if Jedi Outcast also implemented this kind of feature. For instance the spawn time for a particular item decreases as the number of players in-game increases.

 

Moreover, randomizing spawn times for objects in q3 tech is trivial. One can just set a random spawn time switch when populating the maps with entities. Just as easy as setting a standard respawn time.

 

I'm all for the surge. Fun to vie for control of it. Randomizing surge spawning would add a little more strategy to the game, beyond simple 'counting down the seconds.'

[KillerBee]

changing spawns for number of players is good.. duels and team dm need longer spawn times.. and weapons to be controlable..

you could make jks spawn times random..

[Guest Vagabond]

Personally, I don't like the the Force Surge, Super Shield, nor the Weapon Powerup. They're just a little too gamey for my taste - they destroy much of the immersion for me.

 

[ August 22, 2001: Message edited by: Vagabond ]

[KillerBee]

super shields and weapon amps I would love to see removed totally and utterly.

they suck in all games..

surges arent really in the same league of uselessness tho.

[wikedjedi]

i played for hours at the settings ff spaceport, and in the end, the score was 1 to 1 because we would both time the surges and ss, it would get lame fast. but in games like cargo ff or hutts ff, where there arent any powerups at all, the games could last for hours and still be great. in jk theres not to many levels played with a surge so you probally dont know what im talking about, but get to good people on the same game, one light, the other dark, it will tire them out fast. i dont mind if there are surges but its a lot funner with just limited force, and hopefully then they'll make force regenerate quicker after killing someone etc etc.

[WD_ToRMeNt]

The placement and respawn time of the SS is one of the lamest aspects of JK, and one reason why hardcores don't play certain maps much. To me it shows a flaw in the thinking and understanding of MP of the JK team.

 

Anyway, surge timing shows skill. Who deserves a surge more, some newbie who happens appon it or a skilled player with a multitasking mind timing it? Sure it takes skill and practice, but that's what seperates an average player from a skilled one. Doing things to make people equal makes for lousey gameplay. Why play at all if skill doesn't matter? It's not even really a game if it doesn't.

 

Surge timing adds to gameplay I think. I dont want to see it gone just because most people dont know about it or never perfected it. I always love it when I have it timed so well that it respawns as I hit my pull hotkey.

 

[ August 22, 2001: Message edited by: -WD- ToRMeNt ]

[KillerBee]

"Why play at all if skill doesn't matter? It's not even really a game if it doesn't."

 

for fun, games are generally for fun, its sports that are a test of skill..

some games end up being played as sports, but you don't have to play just to get better..

 

anyway timing items I have no problem with, I do it in every game I play, have items spawning for me as I go round.. but imho the surge was just too focal, having it was nearly as bad as having the ss on some maps.

on oasis you could wait out someone with the surge, but its abit like having a quad in q3, and having it for 66% of the game.. it would suck.. quads even with their very slow respawn rates are generally removed in proper play..

 

[ August 22, 2001: Message edited by: KillerBee ]

[Guest Vagabond]

Well, you can't have it both ways. If you want the Force Surge, then you need to have the Weapon Amp and Super Shield too.

 

As the Force Surge is to the Jedi, so too are the Weapon Amp and/or Super Shield to the Gunner. In my opinion, all three are lame. My preference is to have the different and relatively balanced classes battle it out in their raw form, without the assistance of gamey power-ups.

 

[ August 22, 2001: Message edited by: Vagabond ]

[KillerBee]

I hope that doesnt apply to health and armour to..

[WD_ToRMeNt]

You mean balanced so you don't get reemed by people who are much better then you?

 

[ August 22, 2001: Message edited by: -WD- ToRMeNt ]

[DeathBoLT]

reread his post.

 

btw, timing isn't the sole sign of skill. any hardcore should know that.

 

your elitist attitude is getting real old torment.

 

[ August 22, 2001: Message edited by: [eVe]DeathBoLT ]

[Guest Vagabond]

KillerBee, I recognize that certain sacrifices need to be made in order for a game to be fun. However, I feel that this can and should be done with restraint, so as to not go completely overboard.

 

Some ideas where reality could be blended into the gameplay to add to the fun, would be the armor. Let's say there are several different levels of armor, where the most protective forms are also more bulkier and heavier. While the heaviest armor would provide the most protection, perhaps it would also slow the character down considerably. Conversely, lighter armor would offer less protection, but would also have little to no effect on the character's speed. Note that this is merely an illustration, and not a suggestion. Perhaps as armor wears down, one, with the appropriate skill and time, could repair their armor and those of their team mates, to full strength.

 

So, regarding health and armor, I do believe they have a place in the game. However, I would suggest that they be placed logically on the maps, rather than haphazardly in nonsensical places.

 

Perhaps health items can come from the Sickbay of a starship map, or perhaps as medicinal fruits and/or healing pools in a wilderness map. Some health items might be portable and perishable, while some are stationary and permanent - maybe some are a hybrid...portable and reusable up to a certain limit before expiring.

 

Armor could be found, in an armory, off of dead enemies, or in the shops of an urban map. Same goes for weapons. Some weapons, and armor, could be found in hidden rooms, say in the den of an enemy's stronghold, or in a walk-in safe.

 

But regarding the Force Surge, Weapon Amp, and Super Shield, these things are so artificial, in my opinion, that they detract from the gameplay.

 

If there are those that just have to have these things, perhaps they should be options on the server that can be turned on and off individually.

 

[ August 23, 2001: Message edited by: Vagabond ]

[KillerBee]

hmm ideas like positioning items in medical cuboards etc is ok for sp, but imho it only serves to slow up the mp.. and one thing jk had in abundance was speed..

 

Jk never really had armour imho it was sheilds, which was quite good, you wouldnt slow down with more shields.. cause its just a more charged battery.. why its called vest was beyond me..

 

health droids would be ok, if they gave you the health instantly like in jk. otherwise they slow up the game, and make you a sitting duck facing a wall..

 

some ideas that things like hl mods have introduced are good, fa bandaging etc, but they work imo in the context of that game, its meant to be slow and realistic..

DM is in a way meant to be a little arcadey, hell if it wasnt how do you explain you spawning in the middle of know where..

(I actually loved EFS holo matches.. they actually sort of explained it..)

 

I am purely against the surges ss etc because they take so much of the attention of the game, in something like q3 the large health pickups, and armours all take equal priority, which is good, the quads etc thake less priority usually due to the slowness of their spawn..

[Wilhuf]

Seeing how the Force is the engine that drove Jedi Knight gameplay, it's no wonder the surge was the contested powerup.

 

I liked surge battles, thought it added a fun, if not simple extra element of gameplay to JK/MotS. It let you do what Jedi Knight was all about: use the Force, lots of it.

 

I say keep the surge, but consider reducing its overall effectiveness (as has been said): e.g. No infinite Force charge during the duration, but rather, rapid replenishment of Force, while active. So, while surged, you still can draw down your reservoir, even going to empty, but it replenishes more rapidly.

 

Since the discussion here is about Full Force guns, was wondering if anyone considered that there may be no such thing as 'Force Levels' in multiplayer Jedi Outcast? Perhaps there will be a finite number of Force 'stars,' and no levels at all. Not sure if Raven has commented on this or not.