No co-op mode in JK2

[matt--]

http://www.lucasarts.com/products/outcast/faq.htm#303

 

3.03 Will there be a co-operative (co-op) mode?

There will not be co-op play where multiple players can play through the single-player missions simultaneously. Team deathmatch multiplayer is planned, however.

[Guest ZeroXcape]

matt-windu: That just means someone has to edit that in for multiplayer

[magnum1587246490]

That's a pity

 

I think that the most difficult part for a feature like this is how you make a level that works ok in both SP and Co-Op mode. Not an easy task, I think...

[matt--]

Well "Team deathmatch multiplayer is planned, however."

I wish they said something like a capture the flag variation. Multiplayer would suffer without such a game mode.

[StephenG]

I dont like CTF. i was hoping for something like RtCW type thing in the SW universe

[magnum1587246490]

Originally posted by StephenG:

<STRONG>I dont like CTF. i was hoping for something like RtCW type thing in the SW universe</STRONG>

 

Just curious: what's RtCW? Haven't heard that before.

[EDIT]Nevermind. Return to Castle Wolfenstein

I agree with you 100%. Now I understand your post

[/EDIT]

 

I like CTF, and any other non deathmatch mode for multiplayer. Anything that has another objetive than blast anything that moves. More strategy and tactics, you know

 

[ November 17, 2001: Message edited by: Magnum ]

[StephenG]

^

Return To Castle Wolfenstein

[Lion Heart]

Hmmm.

 

It really wont be hard to make a Co-op.

[nykel007]

I must agree, it was a disappointment to see that there be no co-op mode. .

[bsbuckeye21]

Oh great, not another developer wimping out of taking some time to add in a very rewarding co-op multiplayer expirience.

[Millions o' Monkeys]

hmmmm i dont think it was a case of wimping out...more of a case of hmmm lets get rid of co-op its not gonna work in the game

[OnlyOneCanoli]

Or maybe it's we don't want to delay the game a month to get it in. How would it not work in the game?

 

It's sad that developers refuse to put co-op into a lot of today's games. Very unfortunate.

[Rancor]

Truth is, we don't know all of the reasons why it won't be in there. Maybe they don't have time to make it. Maybe they don't even want to make it. Maybe it would cost too much money to develop it properly.

 

In the case of the latter possibility, as much as I hate to say it...companies exist to make money. When it comes down to it, decisions to cut or add a feature are a balance of cost, return on that extra investment ( significantly enchanced sales )..etc. It sucks, but I guess we just have to deal with it.

 

But..I'm guessing the real issue is time. Anyone else note that the game release time roughly correlates with when the next movie comes out? I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out that this is the reason why the game seems a bit rushed. I can't imagine a tie-in though--the timeframe would be all wrong for that.

 

Or maybe it's we don't want to delay the game a month to get it in. How would it not work in the game?

 

A month? Try 6 months. I could think of reasons why it wouldn't work. In the case of EF, single player and multi player were two different executables. I've often wondered if they did this because they ripped the networking out of single player? In that kind of case, co-op would be impossible. I'm sure there must be a reasonable reason why we won't be getting co-op.

 

[ November 17, 2001: Message edited by: Rancor ]

[bsbuckeye21]

Well for the upcoming Duke Nukem Forever there won't be co-op because (as said by George Broussard, the producer) the game is too complicated for that. Say a bridge has exploded behind you and your partner is on the other side. Then what? That's basically 3D Realm's reasoning.

 

But not to be derogatory, I don't JK2 will be as complex as DNF. Blasting stormies and other baddies isn't all that sophisticed (Yeah yeah, I know, you'll be able to do other stuff.)

 

So what would be so complex in a game based off of Jedi Knight? Hmm... well maybe this time around we might get some vehicle that's used to cross something. (Then again, you could just have 2 vehicles.) And uh... well that's all I can really think of for now.

 

Also, I'm all for screwing the story and adding dev time in favor of having a friend on your side.

 

Pretty much none of today's games have co-op. What to do to get the industry buzzing and customers happy that want the great co-op expirience? Put it in.

[ReaperFett1587245720]

The game has a story. Adding more affects the story.

 

 

Having said that, it would be cool if they had a Co-op multiplayer, which was basically missions for groups. Imagine the start of TPM, your band of Jedi fighting through the Trade Fed droids. Wowsers

[bsbuckeye21]

That would be cool. *sigh*... looks like someone's gonna have to start a mod. Has anyone already made a mod for some other Q3 powered game? If so, get 'em in here.

[CaptainRAVE]

So theres no co-op play then . Im gutted. Me and my friends were really looking forward to completing the game together as a group.

[X-Vector]

I'm actually quite happy to know there will be no co-op play in Jedi Outcast.

 

To put it in perhaps a little bit too simplistic of terms, JO just isn't DooM or Serious Sam in space and that's something to be thankful for.

Apart from the many gameplay related reasons for not having co-op (some of which bsbuckeye21 already mentioned), IMO singleplayer relies heavily on atmosphere, suspense and the "me vs. them" idea, having a co-op sidekick tagging along with me through the game would diminish these qualities (NPC characters are very welcome though, just as long as they know when to leave me alone again).

 

Multiplayer is a completely different story though, I'm completely uninterested in playing JO FFA deathmatch (I've got Q3 to cater to my deathmatch needs), although 1 vs. 1 could be interesting, but teamplay all the way is what I say.

[Eraxel]

I'm a great lover of any co-op games, however, I don't think co-op would work out much in the original single player scenario. As some people already said: Atmosphere and plot development can't be that dynamic and flexible without the single player game mode being reduced to a mere slaughterfest.

 

BUT: I can imagine a lot of smaller co-op missions not too closely tied to the single player game, and if the Raven team don't come up with it (maybe in the form of some expansion pack, as they did before), I can only hope there are to be mod programmers who're up to the task.

[StormHammer]

Welcome to the forums, Eraxel. Have a Jedi Snack. (I don't do baskets.)

 

I'm in two minds about co-op. On the one hand, I'd love to play it - if my connection would allow. On the other hand, I can see where it might mess with the storyline, and certain scripted events.

 

Maybe it would be better as a Mod, which has a cohesive story and a design that can handle teams.

 

I know that the people who did the RUNE co-op mod had to change a few fundamental elements - and include additional respawn points for the players throughout levels. It was a pretty major task, and took quite some time.

 

Anyway, I think a mod should be like one mission, broken up into a few decent-sized levels, with enough enemies etc., to cater for a group of seasoned Jedi to fight through.

[Eraxel]

Hm, there's the SvenCoop mod for Half-Life, I'd pretty much like coop maps designed like some very well-made among those. What's RUNE? ;-)

[CaptainRAVE]

I suppose in a way it is better that there is no co-op play available. At least now they can concentrate on the single player aspects of the game more in depth. Even though they would have had time to add co-op play because the engine was already build, so the time of development was halved if not more.

[X-Vector]

Originally posted by CaptainRAVE:

<STRONG>Even though they would have had time to add co-op play because the engine was already build, so the time of development was halved if not more.</STRONG>

 

Even though the Q3 engine had already been built before work on JO started, I sincerely hope Raven only used it as a starting point, not a fixed product.

I don't want the game to end up as a Q3 or EF mod.

Take a look at what id's CEO has to say on the subject of RTCW's Q3 based engine:

 

About the only two pieces of the original Quake III Arena Engine that remain in Return to Castle Wolfenstein are the core rendering system and the network code (although throughout the development of Team Arena and subsequent point releases the network code has been optimized an incredible amount as well). Gray Matter has developed an advanced AI system where enemies will react to their surroundings, take cover, work together, and make different decisions based on the tactics with which you play. They have been able to add realism by incorporating a skeletal animation system which allows for many more animations per character, as well as the use of motion capture data to create animations that are incredibly smooth and lifelike (it’s actually a little spooky sometimes).

 

Also remember what Valve has been able to accomplish with Quake I technology.

 

Upgrading and modifying an engine this way will probably take more time than you think, but it will result in a higher quality game.

 

Raven should be allowed to take all the time they need to make JO something special.

[wardz]

On a slightly separate note, as this is the official fan site - (that sounds beter each time I say it) does this mean that we will be hosting all the mods a la massassi?

 

With modded co-op play what if loads of people decided they want to mod it? With loads of different versions wouldn't that make it very difficult to organise a good game?

 

 

wardz

[DeathBoLT]

I know I'd like a few levels, not neccesearily straight from single player, that feature a group of real people fighting hordes of stormtroopers, etc. and accomplishing certain objectives as a team.

 

I can wait, though, for it to come out as a mod or for it to come out as part of a seperately sold add-on package.. I'd like to see JO this coming Feburary, as opposed to a 6+ additional wait.