1337_7r011 Posted January 2, 2002 Share Posted January 2, 2002 It seems to me that practically every star wars game that has ever been released is just an inferior product designed to milk the star wars cash cow for all its worth. Take jedi knight one - its graphics are practically wolfenstein quality, and the gameplay isn't exactly exciting... Star wars battlegrounds is just a reskinned AOE, would have taken maybe 10 or so graphic designers a month to make.... Rogue squadron, quite small, and the stormtroopers are amzingly 2d, i guess the designers figured they'd go with 2d skins just to add some variety.... The bodgyness doesn't seem to be limited to star wars games either, the new star wars movies are suffering from it as well... The original films had plot and substance, whereas the new films are trashy examples of computer animation, interspaced with jar jar binks speaking stupidly... I quite like the original star wars trilogy, but all the offshoots are just trying to suck that little bit more milk from the cash cow... anyhoo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenG Posted January 2, 2002 Share Posted January 2, 2002 first off, welcome new person. i have no cookies ask stormie. Originally posted by 1337_7r011 It seems to me that practically every star wars game that has ever been released is just an inferior product designed to milk the star wars cash cow for all its worth. Take jedi knight one - its graphics are practically wolfenstein quality, and the gameplay isn't exactly exciting... you have the right to your own opinion but i'm pretty sure that JK looked better than Wolf3d. i also reckon that JK ws a great game and had lots of exciting times. example, remember when after fighting Yun your on the roof and there is a tie bomber between u and path? Originally posted by 1337_7r011 Star wars battlegrounds is just a reskinned AOE, would have taken maybe 10 or so graphic designers a month to make.... but yeah, this i agree with u 100% on this topic. only some difference in GB compared to AoK2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1337_7r011 Posted January 2, 2002 Author Share Posted January 2, 2002 perhaps a slight exaggeration about jediknight graphics, they weren't on a par with wolfenstein, they were probably closer to doom... all the star wars games are rather lacking in substance, there are many many games out there with more depth, that feel more real to play. If the starwars games were not set in the starwars universe, then they probably would have sold very poorly indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Lando Posted January 2, 2002 Share Posted January 2, 2002 ya, the eskimoes that would be funny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obi Kwan Posted January 2, 2002 Share Posted January 2, 2002 I agree that the Episode one games blew entirely and that I could probably count on one hand the number of starwars games that I have enjoyed. THough, out of those games are some of my favorites of all time. Starwars fo NES,X-Wing, JK..... wow those seem dated now. But i have great confidence that JKII will renew our faith in Lucas Arts if RS2 hasnt already! The original films had plot and substance, whereas the new films are trashy examples of computer animation, interspaced with jar jar binks speaking stupidly... As for this, the plot of the original movies may have had more substance, but the dialogue was just as cheesy. Star Wars was never a totally serious and stern story, so some jar jar esq sillyness is to be expected! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabond Posted January 2, 2002 Share Posted January 2, 2002 Since this thread seem less about JKII, and more about LucasArts in general, I'm moving this to the Swamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digl Posted January 2, 2002 Share Posted January 2, 2002 It seems to me that practically every star wars game that has ever been released is just an inferior product designed to milk the star wars cash cow for all its worth. I wonder if you have an idea of every star wars game released No offense, but you sound like you are pretty new to gaming Your older example is JK, from 1997, the first SW game was made several decades ago (the arcade xwing game), and was amazing for Its time Most older PC and console SW games had great success, both in sells and in critics Tie Fighter is considered one of the best games of all times Dark Forces was one of the games that changed FPSs forever, adding an intelligent story and several other elements about graphics, doom was like DF, with 2d sprites, JK was fully 3D I think what killed JK graphically was Q2, that was released only a few months later and had amazing graphics, making most other games out look ugly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nob Akimoto Posted January 2, 2002 Share Posted January 2, 2002 I find it amusing that someone with a nickname of "leet troll" is being taken seriously... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agen Posted January 2, 2002 Share Posted January 2, 2002 What about....... hmmm. u play one of the games??????.... u don't need to thank me for the advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[TE]BiocYte[OO] Posted January 2, 2002 Share Posted January 2, 2002 Troll..... For it's time JK was awesome.....the graphics were ok but the gameplay was awesome... to say that all Lucas Arts games are crap is very very lame and shows hat you have played very few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted January 2, 2002 Share Posted January 2, 2002 Welcome to the forums, 1337_7r011 and BiocYte. Hope you both enjoy your stay. *hands each a chocolate Jedi Medallion* There you go. Originally posted by 1337_7r011 It seems to me that practically every star wars game that has ever been released is just an inferior product designed to milk the star wars cash cow for all its worth. Of course games are made to make money...and Star Wars merchandise was always designed to milk the cash cow for all it was worth. I can still remember all of the stuff that came out around the time the original movie was released...you could get almost anything with an SW logo on it somewhere. Such is the nature of enterprise...and boy, did it pay off. There are very few developers who make games just from the goodness of their heart (and those who do are usually learning the ropes). I disagree that all of the Star Wars games have been inferior. Take jedi knight one - its graphics are practically wolfenstein quality, and the gameplay isn't exactly exciting... Jedi Knight is probably one of the most exciting FPS games I have ever played, and broke some new ground while introducing gaming elements not found in any other FPS anywhere (lightsabers, Force Powers etc.). It's blend of cohesive story, great level design, choice of gameplay, mixture of 1st and 3rd person perspectives, RPG type elements (you decide how your character progresses in Force skills), and the overall Star Wars feel made it a fantastic gaming experience that is borne out by it's sheer longevity. After 5 years it is still played...and still available to purchase because of it's popularity. There are few other titles that have managed to garner sustained interest from a widespread gaming community. Star wars battlegrounds is just a reskinned AOE, would have taken maybe 10 or so graphic designers a month to make.... Can't really comment much on that one. I've only played the demo, and I'm told it's not representative of the full game. I'm new to the RTS genre (never bothered with it before), but SWGB picqued my interest...and now I've played several other RTS demos, including AOEII, which I liked. Going by your statement, then, it would appear I will probably like SWGB (which is now on my Wanted list). I've never played Rogue Squadron...I'm not really a fan of any space shoot-em-ups etc. Except, that old Xwing arcade game digl mentioned brings back fond memories. I think I was one of the first to try out that cool-looking ****pit arcade game machine...I know I must have blown all my pocket money on it...and some of my Student grant when I discovered one buried in a Student's Union... The bodgyness doesn't seem to be limited to star wars games either, the new star wars movies are suffering from it as well...The original films had plot and substance, whereas the new films are trashy examples of computer animation, interspaced with jar jar binks speaking stupidly...I quite like the original star wars trilogy, but all the offshoots are just trying to suck that little bit more milk from the cash cow... I can't really argue with that. TPM was not my favourite SW movie by a long shot, although it did have some redeeming features. I felt it was a bit of a carbon-copy of ROTJ, which was also not my favourite in the series. As for milking the cash cow...let's be fair. Star Wars fans around the globe have been badgering Lucas for 20 years to make the prequels (and rumoured sequels), so I think it had to happen sooner or later. Sure, they are now going to throw out all the Episode I-III merchandise...just like they did with the original trilogy. So what? It's a great franchise, makes a ton of money...and if people didn't like or buy the stuff, it wouldn't sell. I hope Lucas makes a better Episode II and Episode III...but I won't criticise him for starting the ball rolling on a literal phenomenon of the 20th Century. Without Star Wars, would there ever have been an Alien, a Terminator, Battlestar Galactica, Star Trek movies, Blade Runner, Star Trek TNG... Star Wars made a lot of directors and producers sit up and take notice, and revise their thinking about what they were producing. Now the technology is there to support the graphical vision... The only problem Lucas must face now is not sacrificing the story for the visual impact...but that is a very common complaint of almost every film coming out of Hollywood these days... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sounds Risky Posted January 2, 2002 Share Posted January 2, 2002 It seems (to me at least) that most Star Wars fans aren't really Star Wars fans, but ANH and ESB fans. This stuff (or maybe I should say fluff) isn't Citizen Kane people, it's just a silly little space opera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[TE]BiocYte[OO] Posted January 2, 2002 Share Posted January 2, 2002 About the movies..... Having seen SW maybe 20 times in my lifetime....lol I must say that the acting and the story are not great. Bad acting coupled with a bad script = Star Wars. Now it was new and hey most of us were maybe 12 or 13 when it came out so it was GREAT. TPM seems to have gathered good actors and also given them a bad script. The story is there, it is not explored enough. Now since granted most of the actors were of top caliber....could it be that Lucas is just a bad story teller and director?? Don't get me wrong I enjoyed TPM but i was expecting more and I think there is where the problem lies. People expect more from Lucas and Lucas Arts. JK2 is being made by Raven Software, rest assured that this game will be good. ------------------------- [TE]BiocYte[OO] http://www.theobsidianorder.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[TE]BiocYte[OO] Posted January 2, 2002 Share Posted January 2, 2002 And Stormhammer, thanx for the Chocolate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_FinnSon Posted January 3, 2002 Share Posted January 3, 2002 Just play through whole X-Wing series(Tie Fighter was my personal favorite), original Dark Forces(it's still quite good even with outdated graphics and not fully supported mouse controls as a nostalgic FPS), try again JK(huge levels, baby!) and after that check what MotS might give you. After all this, tell me again, if you still think that you didn't get something for your money. As a sidenote, I have personally nothing againts TPM, because it gave me just what I wanted: lightsaber duels, awesome visual effects, John Williams' music and widened the galaxy that first movies only partially introduced to us; it is populated with so many species, which Gungans and Ewoks are only small part of, but prove to us that there can also be clumsy and childlike characters in addition to more serious characters like The Jedi. These movies should only be judged after seeing whole saga as one twelve hour movie; TPM is only one episode of this modern myth, which is NOT pure scifi, but rather fantasy/fairy tale with mystical proportions. So, don't take it too seriously, but wait what George have for us(I'm quite sure there are still big surprises waiting for us) and don't watch these new movies too much from original Trilogy's point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1337_7r011 Posted January 3, 2002 Author Share Posted January 3, 2002 i have played some of the x wing series from the mid 90s (95?, 94?) and although it was reasonable, i can't really say that it was anything special. It was a while back that i played them, but iirc they all used the same graphics engine, so they were all pretty much exactly the same. They were also not much better than any of the other flightsim style games around back then. as to what digl said about jedi knight being fully 3d, who cares, it it still looks crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digl Posted January 3, 2002 Share Posted January 3, 2002 I said that because you compared it with doom sure It looks crap, but It didnt look crap and what games do you like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nob Akimoto Posted January 3, 2002 Share Posted January 3, 2002 Originally posted by 1337_7r011 i have played some of the x wing series from the mid 90s (95?, 94?) and although it was reasonable, i can't really say that it was anything special. It was a while back that i played them, but iirc they all used the same graphics engine, so they were all pretty much exactly the same. They were also not much better than any of the other flightsim style games around back then. Partially accurate. All the X-wing games after TIE Fighter used updates to that engine.(Up to and including XWA.) However, the X-wing series were among the first true "3D" games of their genre. While Wing Commander was still cutting teeth with sprites, X-wing(released in 1993 I believe) And saying they're exactly the same is a rather simple and childish thing to say. But oh well. Some people understand classics, others just see what they spawn then flame the originators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duder Posted January 3, 2002 Share Posted January 3, 2002 I wouldnt say they were all crap, but considering the huge scope of the Star Wars universe it is hard to find reasons why there arent any absolute classic star wars computer games. Perhaps you are right, maybe it is because they want to milk the franchise for all they can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digl Posted January 3, 2002 Share Posted January 3, 2002 Actually Tie Fighter is an absolute classic And Jedi Knight will be a classic soon, I dont think there are too many games that are still played online so much after several years, and even without dedicated servers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty_V2.1 Posted January 4, 2002 Share Posted January 4, 2002 Also to be noted is that the X-Wing/Tie-Fighter games were Critically acclaimed by most reviewers and the gaming community and later re-released collectors editions. Those games actually represented(correct me if I'm wrong)the best games of that genre in that era. Jedi Knight, multiaward winning and considered game of the year by some reviewers I think, Gspot readers choice game of the year runner up(missed by 1%), graphicly, i agree crap especially cos of Q2, but lotsa fun to play. There were some other good and crap SW games but i btween they mad good non-SW game like MI series Well I've rambled enough.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruitloop Posted January 4, 2002 Share Posted January 4, 2002 While I'm not sure all Star Wars games suck, I do believe there have been some LucasArts games that will be all time PC gaming classics in the realm of Doom or Wing Commander and that there are some SW games that, well, are better left unmentioned. But I have to mention one, I can't resist it! Force Commander was an utter joke! *puke* *gag* *suffer* *cough blood* *die* *talking corpse* I can't believe LucasArts conned me outta $40 for that POS! Anyways, the majority of SW games are very good and solid, in my opinion. Being a former die-hard Star Wars fan, I'm obviously biased and partial to any game depicting a story in that universe, but as a PC gamer, I must say LucasArts has turned out some fantastic material. Dark Forces, TIE Fighter, and many of the other pre-97 classics all captivated me. Oh, yeah, Jedi Knight's multiplayer was fun sometimes too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenG Posted January 4, 2002 Share Posted January 4, 2002 Originally posted by digl Actually Tie Fighter is an absolute classic And Jedi Knight will be a classic soon, I dont think there are too many games that are still played online so much after several years, and even without dedicated servers Its amazing that so many people still play Jedi Knight multiplayer these days. Cant wait to try out Jedi Outcast multiplayer (read: i wanna multiplayer demo soon plz) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenG Posted January 4, 2002 Share Posted January 4, 2002 Originally posted by digl Actually Tie Fighter is an absolute classic And Jedi Knight will be a classic soon, I dont think there are too many games that are still played online so much after several years, and even without dedicated servers Its amazing that so many people still play Jedi Knight multiplayer these days. Cant wait to try out Jedi Outcast multiplayer (read: i wanna multiplayer demo soon plz) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obi Kwan Posted January 4, 2002 Share Posted January 4, 2002 If we are spreading the discussion to Lucasarts in general, I'd say there is no question that they've made some classics in the past. Grim Fandango was one of my all time favorites, mostly because of Lucasart's engaging story and plot design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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