ed_silvergun Posted January 15, 2002 Share Posted January 15, 2002 Originally posted by Dirth Vedar Know why single? Because unless you are a very competitive person who takes pleasure out of killing other players, multiplayer just lacks the plot that makes the game interesting. I agree with you if you are referring to deathmatch, but as you go on to say, modes such as UT's Assault can have longer-term appeal than simple DM, and we know that JK II will include some new MP gametypes above and beyond the staple diet of DM, Team DM and CTF. I agree with you entirely that it is a shame developers don't include more plot- or events-driven MP modes in games, and I for one will miss the presence of a co-op game where you can play through the SP campaign with your friends. However, I look forward to these new MP gametypes which have been spoken of, and a decent objective-based MP mode such as UT's Assault or Counter-Strike would keep me entertained for a long while, I'm sure. For this reason, I'm looking forward to JK II's MP far more than I did for the original game, and I hope I can lay my hands on a decent broadband connection before too long so that I can enjoy online gameage with all you other forums-goers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted January 15, 2002 Share Posted January 15, 2002 I'll be playing SP first, although I will probably dip into an MP bot-match as well. I'll be getting JKII for the story and exploration, the sense of adventure...and as others have said, these things are hard to capture in MP. I too think that MP is important..but not as important for me. If you want a team of people working through a story, you're talking co-op mode...and we know that will not be in JKII. Of course, there's always a chance someone will attempt a mod...like those who did the Rune Co-Op mod (which I sadly have not played due to lag issues). In this case I would be a lot more interested in playing MP (if I could get a better connection, or had enough mates living locally to set up a LAN party ). I think there is more of an opportunity for storylines with Assault-type levels, and those where you escort other players to safe locations...although these are more like scenarios rather than something with a cohesive plot and character development. To build a story, you need multiple levels that carry over what has happened before in a seemless and logical fashion. For some reason, that doesn't seem to be possible (or viable) at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDG/Mauly-DarkJ Posted January 16, 2002 Share Posted January 16, 2002 I must have multyplayer...must...have...lightsaber duels....must... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhuf Posted January 16, 2002 Share Posted January 16, 2002 Multiplayer. What better way to test your mettle than against thinking, plotting, skilled opponents? Good against machines is one thing, but against the living? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarScrap Posted January 16, 2002 Share Posted January 16, 2002 Good against machines is one thing, but against the living? Nice quote there . I'm seriously hoping there will be some good large group maneuvers, but it all really depends on the players (along with the maps and player capacity). The MP engine they're using does allow for a lot of people in a game doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[SWS]Strider Posted January 16, 2002 Share Posted January 16, 2002 On Elite Force I have palyed with 9 vs 9 with a ping of 75. It was fine. Strider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhuf Posted January 16, 2002 Share Posted January 16, 2002 I've seen a pic of 128 players in a LAN Quake3 game. A huge human pyramid. The pyramid was brought down by a quad rocket. I don't think we'll be getting 128 player Jedi Outcast multiplayer games over the internet, but the technology is there. I'd guess you could probably get a 32 player multiplayer game if you were on a good server (with DSL/TX). I'd expect from 8-16 players for most moderate dedicated servers. [edit update : I see on Jediknightii.net that Outcast will support 64 player games.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Lando Posted January 16, 2002 Share Posted January 16, 2002 I always play SP first then go to MP after I begun or completed SP. I approach the two game play modes with different perspectives. I throughly enjoy SP if the game has a good storyline and creative level design. I enjoy watching cut scenes and being immeresed into the game's world. I like to 'go for the ride' so to speak. For MP I join in for the fun. I have never been too much of a deathmatch fan. Mostly because I am not a prodigy. Yes... I suck at deathmatch!!! But I can enjoy it from time to time. I do however love teamplay. I like supporting teammates online to achieve a goal. 2 things turn me off to MP gaming however, #1 hackers and #2 the paranoia that hackers create where everyone suspects every good player of hacking and the game degenerates into a whine fest of kick this person and ban this person ect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhuf Posted January 16, 2002 Share Posted January 16, 2002 Hopefully, Darth_Lando, we won't see quite as many cheats/exploits under Q3 the pure server tech as we saw in JK/MotS. I prefer to dive right in to Multiplayer, take it all in, learn and enjoy it in the arena of human v human combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agen Posted January 16, 2002 Share Posted January 16, 2002 I agree wilhuf. JK" mp is bound to be a bit different for sp. just like jk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poopypants Posted January 16, 2002 Share Posted January 16, 2002 I think that if a game doesn't have a good story-backing then, hasta luego Ned, it's somewhat doomed. Some might say that Star Wars, by itself, is a good story backing, and that's true, but games like Rogue Squadron have truly proven the fault in that statement. For this reason, I'm a beat the game before I beat my roomie kinda guy. As much as I love beating my roommate, oh he needs it from time to time believe you me, the story is what absorbs me and drives me to want to continually spend time in "that world" (whew, thank goodness for quotes--don't want to come across psychotic). Plus, MP just tends to be WAAAAY more intense, and for that reason, kinda unrealistic. I mean where in history have they dumped 16 guys with guns into an arena and said, hey, see those guys shootin eachother? You go shoot them too. (and Rome doesn't count cuz I said so) So I like to live the pseudo-reality of single player before delving into pasting a kick-me sign on my back and letting people shove the muzzle of a blaster carbine snuggly into my rectum. Nothing against MP, oh no, make no mistake. But you can spend SOOOO much time playing MP, which is vital in every way, and then play singleplayer and it's like, where the heck did all the bad-arses go? As for MP only games, I'm terribly picky. Quake3 never really sparked me. I felt like the die-hards were riding on a cloud manifested by the first 2. Unreal Tournament rocked a butt-load but seemed skippy when I took to the internet via a lan. Counterstrike'll get me now and then, but no biggy. But, I have found one--one with one of the best story backings of history. DoD takes me there and back again repeatedly. I love that friggin game. Teamplay with different goals and an intense background. Jedi Outcast--I require not from you more MP than some kick-arse deathmatch. But when it comes to single-player, I'm making a time-line and I'll be checking it twice. If the accuracy is substantial, I'll be forced to play nice. No one ever let me rhyme again. ::hangs head in shame:: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scav Posted January 16, 2002 Share Posted January 16, 2002 Heh, poopy. Multiplayer does tend to be a little.. repetitive. And intense, all the same. It will likely not be as precariously balanced on redundancy and Canyon Oasis this time though, and that's what intrigues me. WHAT exactly are they going to do with multiplayer? Anything.. extra? A better CTF, for example? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nykel007 Posted January 17, 2002 Share Posted January 17, 2002 Definitly SP so that I could slice of a few hands in MP with precision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhuf Posted January 17, 2002 Share Posted January 17, 2002 Mission-based multiplayer can have some semblance of 'plot.' On occasion you see 'stories' develop during missions. Usually they are paper thin, and don't involve Gungans, or holocrons. But they do exist. Perhaps a battle story between two teams. Their advances and retreats, failures and successes. The stories are 'written' by the gamers themselves. Pretty simple stuff. Moreover, if you ever chat with some of the players you meet online, you sometimes learn a little bit about them and become familiar with their own 'backstories.' Actually, mission-based mutliplayer can have about as much plot as some single player games. Of course, LEC is usually strong with plot, so I doubt we'll see a weak single player backstory in Outcast. While the single player motive has an actual backstory, both single player and mission-based multiplayer often have roughly the same depth of action. Yes, it's true that if you are a competetive player, you 'care' about the game outcome, and that adds to the enjoyment of multiplayer. And that seems as reasonable as 'caring about' or 'getting into' the single player campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted January 17, 2002 Share Posted January 17, 2002 Originally posted by Wilhuf Mission-based multiplayer can have some semblance of 'plot.' On occasion you see 'stories' develop during missions. Usually they are paper thin, and don't involve Gungans, or holocrons. But they do exist. Perhaps a battle story between two teams. Their advances and retreats, failures and successes. The stories are 'written' by the gamers themselves. Pretty simple stuff. Hmmm...I was going to post something else in my previous post, but didn't. I'll do it now. I think one possible way to get more of a story feel into MP is for the developer to devise a more cohesive plot, and give two (or more) teams some clearly defined profiles and objectives (either at the start of the mission, or as they progress through the mission). As you say, the players then write the bulk of the story themselves through their actions while engaged in achieving the objective. After all, stories must always retain a focus on the achievements of the heros and villains...because stories are about people. So the players should be in control of their own destiny, so to speak. It just needs the right framework and context to begin with that allows them to do that in a more meaningful way. It is a sort of semi-roleplaying, in that the players must be willing to work within the confines of the plot rather than simply go on a freelance killing spree (unless the situation demands such a tactic ). Missions where you must escort someone, rescue someone, steal something etc., all have a basic plot. The problem until now has been that there is little actual back-story to the situation - and the following levels do not usually reflect what happened in the previous levels. If the thread was carried over in this way, you could be in a position of losing some battles (some levels) while still winning the war (you manage to achieve a key objective during your progress through a few levels). The other thing that is usually absent from MP is NPCs - peripheral characters that can add colour and life to levels...and act as another part of the scoring process, ie, the good guys get deducted points for killing them, the bad guys add points. Anyway, if you started out with a rescue level...that NPC could give you details about plans at a secret base, so the next level is an assault on that base to steal some plans...then if you succeed, you progress to a third level to take out a key military target detailed in the plans. This allows the story to build up. The problem, to my mind, is how you engage all of the players during a particular level if some of the players are killed early. You could just have them sit back and watch the progress of their team-mates until the next level where they are respawned as reinforcements...but if players keep dying early on, they won't get much experience (let alone an enjoyable experience) out of the gameplay. I think RTCW partially solved this by respawning players where they were needed by the two opposing factions - but if your assault team is supposed to be finite in a particular level, the only alternative is for players to respawn as enemies defending the target. This would serve to unbalance the teamplay in favour of the defenders. A more realistic approach is for the assault team to communicate in some way with their base to send reinforcements during the progress of a particular level...and then the fragged players respawn, possibly via a dropship. I think this kind of progression is more story friendly, while not actually becoming a co-op mode for the SP game. It would work particularly well if the score sheet at the end gave an In Memorium of the dead (of both sides), so you could mourn over lost comrades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scav Posted January 17, 2002 Share Posted January 17, 2002 I just skim, scanned, read your post StormHammer. Must say, I'm impressed. Another cohesive -- and long -- post, which fufills my hopes and dreams. Roleplaying... what can I say about roleplaying, other than that I love it? [Yoda-Blonde Hybrid]Absolutely, drop dead, kill-me-now in love with writing and roleplaying, I am.[/Yoda-Blonde Hybrid] So, what I gleaned from those posts indicates a deep, rich possibility for roleplaying, tales of battle from the fold, et al ad nauseum? W-bloody-ow! This is my dream come true. A great community, an awesome game, one of my favourite genre titles, AND roleplaying! Tribes 2 kind of bombed on that, nearly ruined my appetite for existing as the 'Writer' in a community. I couldn't get enough people to be forthcoming and admit they wanted to make a BIG roleplaying community.. What I got was this; which wasn't bad, but it wasn't what I <i>wanted</i>. Now comes JKO, absolutely blowing away my prospective of gaming, complete with awesome graphics, a solid storyline that I can relate with, and <i>roleplaying</i> nearly built into it? *melts into a pool of warm, bubbling goodness* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted January 17, 2002 Share Posted January 17, 2002 Er, Scav...I think you have the wrong impression. I was outlining something that I thought MP should have, but it is highly debatable if we will see anything like that in the final game coming from Raven. There is always the possibility that a mod team with a high enough interest could pull something like that scenario together, though. There hasn't really been much detail regarding MP...although if there are only 12 maps available, I highly doubt we will see a cohesive plot in MP. I know that MotS had classes to choose from, but again, we do not know if even this will be implemented in JKII. Nevertheless, we can always hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed_silvergun Posted January 18, 2002 Share Posted January 18, 2002 I'm making a time-line and I'll be checking it twice. If the accuracy is substantial, I'll be forced to play nice. A rhyming couplet... how Shakespearian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poopypants Posted January 18, 2002 Share Posted January 18, 2002 I thank thee, Silvergun, for thy boosting remark. Alas, I am tiring of this endless charade filled with debate and endless speculation. My one dire request is that I find an errant pink card within the box where my letters reside. Upon the card, scribed, Name: P. Pants Box#: 8192 Object: Package Qty: 1. I shall find a postal merchant with whom I shall trade the flimsy sheet for a parcel of brown, scribled upon which I see "LUCASARTS ENTERTAINMENT" or something to effect. I shall hither to my flat, tear open lightward package, and retrieve the black and blue cardboard prizm of my enchanted dreams. It will say unto me, "Pants, dude, shut up and my play me till yer ass falls off." I shall comply. ::In chipmunk voice:: I can hardly stand the wait; please, Jedi Outcast, don't be laaaate. --The Mighty Pants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.