ps2maddenman Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 Brett Tosti's interview at http://www.xgr.com said that you can choke someone and if you are strong enough you can lift them in the air and then run up to them and hack them with a saber, this sounds really cool in the SP campaign, but in MP I think it will stink, it seems like those who have this ability will have an unfair advantage in the MP maps, what do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Wolf Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 Honestly i dont think anyone can make a sincere statement because we really havent played it yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokie_ Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 no because you can counter grip with push which means it wont work against people with push Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ps2maddenman Posted February 15, 2002 Author Share Posted February 15, 2002 "no because you can counter grip with push which means it wont work against people with push" Really?? That's a good idea, did you read this somewhere? thx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwup Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 just as long as we can't choke-spam then I am all set Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kettch Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 What about force absorb? It should counter grip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirth Vedar Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 What if you counter a grip with... a grip!! Then you'll have two people just floating in the air a small distance apart, both choking, ahhahahahahahahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan12R Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 I think that force Absorb would work. It's what I use in JK. If not, I hope they have a way to stop it. Like it takes awhile for the picking up to take place so whoever is getting choked has a chance to run, or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazilla Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 Force absorb will only prevent the grip from taking away your health, but it might still immobilize you...I think that a good remedy would be using absorb and jump at the same time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrawn Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 I'm sure that they'll be multiple ways to counter choke. It's one of the only bad things about JK MP. I'm sure that they've fixed it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPMaximilian Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 Force Grip might slightly different in Multi for balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naphtali Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 The choke will get stronger with each star/. Im sure in MP that the force choke wont work on a jedi as easily. He can use the force to counter it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belgirion Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 I just hope choke is not as cheap as in Multiplayer JK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathBoLT Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 grip in jk mp was not cheap... as far as grip is concerned in jk2, i think it might be a bad idea to imobilize people as killing them with the saber would be incredibly easy(due to pixel-pixel collision detection, q3 netcode). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Obi Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 <font color=cbcbff> I don't care what galaxy you are from, Grip in JK MP was not only cheap, it was <i>extremely</i> cheap. There was essentially nothing a light jedi could do to stop it short of using protection. And since most of the folks who choose to use the more challenging set of powers have sort of a code of honor to follow, protection was rarely used as it was considered just as cheap as uncounterably immobilizing your opponent. The only thing we learned to do to survive grip was to use(of course) force absorb and then try to force jump out of it. Due to JK's relatively shoddy netcode though, that always resulted in the breaking of lower extremities upon the nearest solid surface, especially when Destruction(also an overly-strong power) was thrown into the mix. Either way, one simple neutral power countered all of the light side's fighting chance(blind and persuasion) so all we could do was writhe around in grip and try to jump until we got hit by someone's lightsaber. In guns it was different because with absorb on, your gun can't be pulled(the best and ...only advantage of the light side) and you could just shoot at whoever was gripping you, making it a little more fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwing Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 Even cheaper: rapid grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathBoLT Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 Originally posted by Obi <font color=cbcbff> I don't care what galaxy you are from, Grip in JK MP was not only cheap, it was <i>extremely</i> cheap. There was essentially nothing a light jedi could do to stop it short of using protection. And since most of the folks who choose to use the more challenging set of powers have sort of a code of honor to follow, protection was rarely used as it was considered just as cheap as uncounterably immobilizing your opponent. The only thing we learned to do to survive grip was to use(of course) force absorb and then try to force jump out of it. Due to JK's relatively shoddy netcode though, that always resulted in the breaking of lower extremities upon the nearest solid surface, especially when Destruction(also an overly-strong power) was thrown into the mix. Either way, one simple neutral power countered all of the light side's fighting chance(blind and persuasion) so all we could do was writhe around in grip and try to jump until we got hit by someone's lightsaber. In guns it was different because with absorb on, your gun can't be pulled(the best and ...only advantage of the light side) and you could just shoot at whoever was gripping you, making it a little more fair. Gripe Gripe Gripe.. let me guess, you think the cr, mines, etc. are unfair too? It's all part of the game, protection, deadly sight, destruction, etc. etc. learn to deal with it or move on to something else. And since most of the folks who choose to use the more challenging set of powers have sort of a code of honor to follow, protection was rarely used as it was considered just as cheap as uncounterably immobilizing your opponent. Light is the more skillful power in BGJ FF??? I've beaten several excellent darkside players by going light, and I can tell you, I wouldn't be able to touch them if I went dark. The only thing we learned to do to survive grip was to use(of course) force absorb and then try to force jump out of it. correction: The only thing you've learned to counter grip with. Everything in this game has an counter; if you're not good enough to use them, stick to the Canyon Oasis(Rookie) room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuSKeN_RaiDeR Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 Correct me if i'm wrong but aren't you able to counter force grip in MP JK with force persuasion, when you have this on you can't be targetted. I'm not very sure about this one because it's a long time ago I played JK MP but i thought you could also use force blind (i'm not very sure) to counter it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 In JK/MotS, the best defense against grip was protection (but many others existed.. you just had to get out of sight, or damage your attacker), but so far nothing like that in JK2 yet. I'm sure there will be multiple counters... To counter grip in JK: Protection (best, no damage, wastes their mana) Blind them (won't work if they have seeing on) Persuasion (won't work if they have seeing on) Deadly Sight Lightning Grip (assuming you can target them) Throw (assuming there are objects to throw and you can target them) Jump Speed (tough, but combined with jump, works well) Absorb (although you are still virtually immobilized) And in addition in MotS: Saber Throw Push (if you can push them out of range) Chain Lightning (if you can target them) Defense (partial lessening of effects) Push (can shove them out of grip range, or damage them by slamming into a wall) And of course, damaging their health, with any weapon, can also counter grip. [edited - corrected some typo's and mentioned Push] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chanke4252 Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 I hope force grip isnt as gay in MP as it was in JK1. All you had to do to get a kill in JK1 was to grip them and make sure you kept them in your camera view by tilting up and backing up so when they jumped they stayed in view. I didnt think this was any fun so i stopped doing that like the 3rd week the game came out. If jedi could just force choke eachother and run around so that the other person couldnt get them then why did they need lightsabers? I thought anything else was ok in the game, i liked playing against people who used guns and everything else other than the excessive force powers. chances are i will still only play or host games where neutral powers are used but to each his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Obi Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 Originally posted by DeathBoLT correction: The only thing you've learned to counter grip with. Everything in this game has an counter; if you're not good enough to use them, stick to the Canyon Oasis(Rookie) room. Toggle hacks don't come with the game, Deathbolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Obi Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 Originally posted by Kurgan In JK/MotS, the best defense against grip was protection (but many others existed.. you just had to get out of sight, or damage your attacker), but so far nothing like that in JK2 yet. I'm sure there will be multiple counters... To counter grip in JK: Protection (best, no damage, wastes their mana) Blind them (won't work if they have seeing on) Persuasion (won't work if they have seeing on) Deadly Sight Lightning Grip (assuming you can target them) Throw (assuming their are objects to throw and you can target them) Jump Speed (tough, but combined with jump, works well) Absorb (although you are still virtually immobilized) And in addition in MotS: Saber Throw Push (if you can push them out of range) Chain Lightning (if you can target them) Defense (partial lessening of effects) And of course, damaging their health, with any weapon, can also counter grip. <font color=cbcbff> Let's modify this list to the resources a saber only lightsider would have.</font> Protection (best, no damage, wastes their mana)<font color=cbcbff>No honorable player would use this, might as well use the dark side if you'd use a power like this.</font> Blind them (won't work if they have seeing on)<font color=cbcbff>Ding, countered by a simple neutral power</font> Persuasion (won't work if they have seeing on)<font color=cbcbff> Ding again, countered by a simple neutral power</font> Jump Speed (tough, but combined with jump, works well) <font color=cbcbff>- Sure if you like breaking your legs and falling off of cliffs to your death. Though it is about the only thing you can really do, it is still really not very effective, and by no means a "counter". It is especially hard to use jump and speed against dark side power in high-lag situations(the fact that destruction and grip too for some reason sometimes lagged the already laggy game)</font> Absorb (although you are still virtually immobilized)-<font color=cbcbff> That leaves us with.....pretty much no way to combat it</font> I really hope there are more tricks in a jedi's bag for Jedi Knight II. I'd hate to see another balance fiasco like the grip scenario. I played Jedi Knight for a long time, I put a lot of strategies to use. You can't just break your line of sight(this works maybe 3% of the time because due to the lag, you'd continue to feel the effects of grip until the opponent could turn around and target you again), and with only a lightsaber it's awfully hard to hit a moving opponent when you can't move. Maybe with a gun we could shoot them and break contact, but in a saber only match, that is dishonorable. There is a simple way they could have made the force balance in JK. One thing that was missing. If the Dark side couldn't use grip and sight at the same time, the light side would have had a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ps2maddenman Posted February 16, 2002 Author Share Posted February 16, 2002 I would think that making grip use alot more of the force mana pool would balance this issue, because if you used grip on someone then you would basically be force blind for a good 30-45 seconds would do the trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WD_ToRMeNt Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 LOL you guys... The best way to avoid grip is to simply move fast. Use speed 4, hold down strafe always, don't be predictable, and don't run directly into your opponent EVER. The faster you are moving the easier it is to make it to some place that is out of your opponents line of site. Grip is fairly easy to get out of, JUST GRIP THE GUY BACK if you are close enough. Else, him hit with destruction. If that fails, use force jump to get to where he can't see you. Grip won't totally immobalize you, and you can move a bit while gripped. If you want to know how find me as WD_ToRMeNt on the zone. If you are a light jedi on a saber only level, the best thing to do is to force jump to some place on the map that is a differant height. Stay on either the light surge cliff or the dark surge cliff. Grip or not, lightys have a serious advantage in FF guns levels. Since absorb blocks pull, the lighty should have a conc and use pull to make sure the darky doesn't. If the lighty is gripped he should just blast the darky with conc. PS No matter what map, these are the best powers to use.... Neutral: Speed 4, Seeing 4, Jump 4, Pull 4 and (If) Dark: Grip 4, Destruction 4 or (If) Light: Absorb 4, Heal 4 Anything else is asking for a beating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan12R Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 I haven't been able to play MP for a while, so some of these ideas I can't remember if they work, but I know for sure that absorb works and if you've got that on, they can't damage you, plus you can pull out a concussion rifle without fear of it being pulled away. All you have to do is shoot in the general direction of whoever is choking you and you're free. If that doesn't work, if I remember right, blind will cause them to lose their lock on you. I don't know, if I could still play on-line, I'd do some experimenting. But it just takes some creativity to get out of tough situations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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