JZA Posted March 2, 2002 Share Posted March 2, 2002 So, elitism has taken its hold upon the JK2 community. This is a bad thing. I've noticed plenty of posts about how JK1 zoners are going to create various JK2 "Uber-clans" and dominate the game, and to say I'm a little miffed would be an understatement. Let me set the record straight. 1) There are no genuine "elites" from Jedi Knight on this board. Unless I've missed a post by Kicker, Patton, Aeron, Porkchop, Jeb, Newmodel or Death, and I've looked pretty extensively. And before you ask, WD_Torment is not a JK1 "elite". He is a whining child. Let me illustrate: If an "uber-clan" WERE made, recruiting, say, the top 100 jedi knight players from every discipline, WD_Torment would not make it into the clan. That is how bad he is (He has never achieved a positive score on me, in BGJ FF 1v1, his level & setting of choice. Thats right. Not one POSITIVE SCORE, EVER). 2)Anyone who thinks that JK1 experience or Q3 prowess will benefit them in any way in JK2, is making a very big, unjustified assumption. Superficial similarities such as game engine are no indicator of similarities in gameplay. Even changing something as simple as the speed of movement in Q3 drastically changes the gameplay; how can you even BEGIN to say that Q3 skill will carry over into a starwars game loosely based on the Q3 engine? The same applies to JK1 skill. JK1 players are archaic and inversatile. The majority of JK1 skill is not transferable. JK1 "elites" restrict themselves to 2 levels: BGJ and oasis (ji for nf gunners). Much of their so-called "skill" is merely muscle-memory of every cubic inch of the level. Example: DSbr_Narz is/was widely regarded as one of the best FF gunners in the game. He would regularly trounce me, in FF oasis, 20 to -5 or better. He suggested we play a FF guns level from massassi; 4 pillars. I won 10-0. Now, Narz is a pretty versatile player, as JK'ers go. If FF gunning skill is not even transferable between *levels*, what hope has he got of any advantage whatsoever in FF guns in JK2? The same applies to NF'ers, who suffer from even less diversity than FF'ers. I imagine that even a fractional change in speed of movement would ruin any of their so-called skill, in guns or sabers. If you doubt this, just ask one to play with 1 star on force speed. Watch them squirm. I could go on to mention the vast differences in level structure, gun characteristics, lag handling, saber dynamics and speed that JK2 will bring, but I needn't. The so called "skill" possessed by JK1/q3 elitists will not carry over to JK2. What *will* carry over to JK2, however, is versatility, maturity, ability to learn quickly, and ability to work as a team; the ability to discover the various nuances of the JK2 dynamics. The majority of JK1 "l33ts", pushing for their Uber-clans and ownz0r board-flaming, are sadly lacking in these areas, and will ultimately, be left behind in JK2. Elitists be warned. You're in for a shock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiffyTheDog Posted March 2, 2002 Share Posted March 2, 2002 That post deserves a thumbs up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tay-Mar Posted March 2, 2002 Share Posted March 2, 2002 Ah a voice of reason is heard above the bluff and bluster ! Not being a zoner I really don't care who's the best at JK1. We shall see what happens when the game's out........won't we ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JK_DarthMaul Posted March 2, 2002 Share Posted March 2, 2002 Great Post JZA:c3po: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyKoTiCWretched Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 ah jza the voice of reason as always finally got this post to come up so just thought id respond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WD_ToRMeNt Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 Umm actually I did get a positive score on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JK_DarthMaul Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 We need PHYSICAL EVIDENCE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiffyTheDog Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 OR ELSE IT'S TO THE CHOP WITH YE! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nimbus+ Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 Good lecture, a lot of people are over their heards, I am good at a lot of games, just kinda fun, Torment you are cool and all, but like when you said you got a positive score, maybe you did, it doesn't really matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[SICK]Vomit Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 I think it matters. JZA is talking against the very thing he is talking about. So if Torment can discredit one part, then that tears apart the rest of his perceived greatness. If JAZ and his sidekicks Spiffy and DarthMaul would have bothered to actually read the post, they would have found they all end on the same note....that we will all be noobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JK_DarthMaul Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 Maybe you disreguarded to read something. I never stated ANYWHERE that I would be good at JK2. I dont understand where you got that....I know we'll all be newbies, but anyways, JZA was talking about JK, Dark Forces 2 incase you didn't READ. Also, why are you just giving US bull****? What about SykoticWretched and Tay-mar? They both also reguarded the post as brilliance. I think you should asess your accusations and watch your little 5 year old mouth, before you say something that can be countered easily and make you look more like a fool than you already do. ************************************************* ALSO: We are NOT his "sidekicks" I guess since you agree with Torment that makes you his Sidekick? Yeah, I think so. So lets all play by Vomits rules! ANYONE WHO AGREES WITH ANOTHER IS NOW A SIDEKICK! Well Vomit, seems like we have over a thousand sidekicks now, dont we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JZA Posted March 3, 2002 Author Share Posted March 3, 2002 So if Torment can discredit one part, then that tears apart the rest of his perceived greatness. Firstly, denying an accusation isn't discrediting it. I genuinely don't believe he's ever got a positive score on me, in BGJ FF 1v1. How is his denial "discrediting" this? I can deny his denial... does this mean I'm "discrediting" him? Only relevant evidence would discredit it. Like a screenshot. The fact remains, he's never come close to beating me. HOWEVER, this was hardly the point. What "perceived greatness" are you referring to? My level of skill is completely irrelevant. My point would be just as valid if I had lost every game I'd ever played, 10 to -20. Hell, the crux of the post was just that- that JK1/q3 skill is *not transferable* to JK2. As for this: JZA is talking against the very thing he is talking about How so? I made the following points: 1)There are, so far, no REAL jk "elites" talking on these boards. The majority of them haven't been seen for months/years in any JK-related forums. 2) JK1/q3 skill will not be transferable to JK2 for a variety of reasons, previously stated. I don't see how these two separate points can be in contradiction. If JAZ and his sidekicks Spiffy and DarthMaul would have bothered to actually read the post, they would have found they all end on the same note....that we will all be noobs. I agree that everyone will be newbies at the start of JK2. This may have been the conclusion reached at the end of the "uber-clan" posts, by people who disagree with the "uber-clan" idea. However, *some* people obviously believe otherwise, or they wouldn't have posted it in the first place. My post was intended to dispel any lingering elitist views about transferable skill that may remain on these boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[SICK]OLMofo Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 Originally posted by JZA So, elitism has taken its hold upon the JK2 community. This is a bad thing. I've noticed plenty of posts about how JK1 zoners are going to create various JK2 "Uber-clans" and dominate the game, and to say I'm a little miffed would be an understatement. 2)Anyone who thinks that JK1 experience or Q3 prowess will benefit them in any way in JK2, is making a very big, unjustified assumption. Superficial similarities such as game engine are no indicator of similarities in gameplay. Even changing something as simple as the speed of movement in Q3 drastically changes the gameplay; how can you even BEGIN to say that Q3 skill will carry over into a starwars game loosely based on the Q3 engine? I could go on to mention the vast differences in level structure, gun characteristics, lag handling, saber dynamics and speed that JK2 will bring, but I needn't. The so called "skill" possessed by JK1/q3 elitists will not carry over to JK2. Elitists be warned. You're in for a shock. LMFAO! How long have you been playing FPS'S? I'm not claiming to be an Elitest when I first buy the dam game foo! Explain to me how I myself can go out and purchase, RTCW and MOHAA after that. Installed, finished both SP sides at the hardest levels, and move right in to the MP like I was playing it b4? Wouldnt happen to be because of all my Elite Force or Q3A experience would it? nah. Basic FPS skills have nothing to do with the mechanics of any game. You either got it or you dont, simple as that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiffyTheDog Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 Originally posted by JK_DarthMaul Maybe you disreguarded to read something. I never stated ANYWHERE that I would be good at JK2. I dont understand where you got that....I know we'll all be newbies Roger that. I just thought it should get a thumbs up, and if it should get one, it should be from the coolest dude ever, thuus the pic. That doesn't make me his ****ing sidekick, I don't even know that guy in the least. I didn't even remember his name until i saw all these replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[SICK]Vomit Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 JZA, my bad. I thought you were re-visiting an issue that has been put to rest by Deathbolt...many times over in this forum. We all agree we will be noobs. I just didn't see the need for you mention your superior record against Torment, no need to tear into him. I don't agree with some of his post, but we can still have fun and posture without taking it personal. Now regarding Sidekick Maul and Spiffy. Did I strike a nerve showing who you guys really are? I'm really impressed Sidekick Maul that you are able to construct a complete sentence and not just respond "spiff is god" and your usual 16 year old rants. Not too hard to figure out. You came into these boards as trolls, and have the honor of the most deleted post in a 2 day span. JZA makes his first post, 2 days within your first post and you guys don't tear into him? Has sidekick written all over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiffyTheDog Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 If you want to look arouund these boards, you will see a whole damn lot of posts by people and we didnt tear into them. Kudos on that logic, vomit. Kudos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[SICK]Vomit Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 I would like to see a link to such a thread. I would provide some links, but most of them have been deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiffyTheDog Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33279 http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33463 http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31281 http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30984 http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32997 http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32400 http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32616 http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32754 http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32661 http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31267 http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32217 There's a few for starters. I could get more but I resolved not to spend more than 2 minutes copying and pasting. Good show, vomit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JK_DarthMaul Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 You want to know the reason we didn't tear into JZA? A few reasons. 1. We weren't stoned at that time, we were earlier, JZA's post came later. 2. His post totally dominated every else's I mean look at the logic and insight in it, you cant deny that it beats the other posts jibberish about Phantom Knights Elite Teaser Banner or something! We only flamed the things we found completely lackluster of intelligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JZA Posted March 3, 2002 Author Share Posted March 3, 2002 OLMofo, you're completely mistaken. How can FPS skill NOT be derived from the mechanics of a game? By "skill" I was referring to ability to win multiplayer games. Your reference to single player games is a moot point - winning a single player FPS uses virtually none of the skills required in multiplayer. If it were otherwise, out-of-the-box newbies would be as good as the multiplayer champions. If you think any moderate level of multiplayer skill is transferable, try using your q3 skills to beat any decent JK'er in JK FF(this is NOT a comment about "jk players being better than q3 players". I'm using it to illustrate the non-transferability of game-specific skill). That jump is going to be comparable to the jump from q3 to JK2. The game dynamics have EVERYTHING to do with it - afterall, "skill" within a certain game is defined as the ability to manipulate the game parameters to your advantage. I cannot seriously believe that you don't understand this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JK_DarthMaul Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 In lesser terms, the running speed is always a variable, the shooting speed, recoil (yes or no), jumping height, the speed at which your gun comes up when you change weapons, reloading, to name a few off the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiffyTheDog Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 Plus, there's always the whole tactics issue. Where would a person go, how you think they would attack, how to deal, etc... Example - They just made a single player version of Counter-strike, and a very large portion of being good at that game is TACTICS. One of my friends got the single player, he kicks ass at that game, but sucks ass at multiplayer CS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JZA Posted March 3, 2002 Author Share Posted March 3, 2002 That's right. A surprisingly small change in the variables can result in a very large gameplay difference - it's called sensitive dependence on initial conditions, and is the basis for mathematical modelling of chaos theory and dynamic systems - of which multiplayer gaming is a (very complex) example Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[SICK]Vomit Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 Spiff, I hope that's your attempt at humor.....show me ONE link that you have replied to that you provided some constructive comments or would lead me to believe you didn't tear into the thread's author. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiffyTheDog Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 In even lesser terms - When you try to jump over something, and just barely make it over by an inch, then do it again and jump an inch lower and fall forward and break your face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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