Jubei2501 Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 I have a question about canon I hope someone can answer for me.... Now, supposedly all things that happen in the movies are canon and EU is until it contradicts something from the movies(or novelizations), fine. However, when the special editions came out, there were a few things that differed from the original films. e.g. Boba Fett apearing on Tatooine in Episode IV...... O.K. , now I know I'm not the only fan out there who didn't like the fact that Greedo shot first at Han before Han blasted him. (I don't need to go into how lame this was, Greedo was POINTING A GUN at Han for crying out loud. In any western, that's enough to get you shot...) My point is, what really happened? Another concern I have is, if and when the DVD is released, what version will it have in it. I grew up watching the original, and I'm 23 now. It would suck if the special edition version is canon.... I'm rambling, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ihatetheblind Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 Im old school too, 23 as well, how sad it is, how sad.... I don't know what really happened, all I know is that greedo got chumped...and somehow missed han point blank. I agree with you though, that is pretty lame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyalGuard Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 While the scene now makes me cringe every time, I just assume that greedo is using the stormtrooper rifle from JK, which the directional randomiser at the end of the barrel! (I once hit three different people entirely by accident when they weren't moving and neither was I). I use the same reasoning to explain why crack troops couldn't hit the broadside of a bantha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue15 Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 the special edition is canon. I would insult, but i'd get banned for it. o well. edited due to some words that'll get me banned or something...*me runs away* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_FinnSon Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 I don't know what really happened, all I know is that greedo got chumped...and somehow missed han point blank. If you look that scene again, you can see that it's actually freezed frame(just before shooting) from original version. They animated Han to quickly lean back so that Greedo missed his head only by two inches and then blast Greedo from under the table. Lucas has explained this change so that he didn't want to let people think Han shot Greedo cold blooded, so he made Greedo shoot first. I guess Han(even though he doesn't believe in the Force or have even heard about it yet) has now Jedi reflexes... BTW, other "big" change that some people doesn't seem to like is when Luke falls down to Reactor Shaft in ESB, they inserted his scream into Special Edition. I personally don't see any bad in that, because it only strengthens the image that Luke was scared as hell, but he had no other choice. Another concern I have is, if and when the DVD is released, what version will it have in it. I guess it will be Special Edition with cleaned effects(it looks to me ILM made most of the original changes and tweaks in a hurry, so there is still many scenes that need to be checked up before you can call them complete) and added scenes, because Lucas has mentioned in few interviews that he is shooting now additional material that will connect prequels to original trilogy and make them complete saga. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justus Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 Well, added to the fact that Luke's scream is basically the same as the Emperor's in RoTJ... but I guess a scream is a scream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue15 Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 lol btw, if i remember correctly, the close up of luke as he was falling wasn't in the original esb. At least, i don't think it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted March 9, 2002 Share Posted March 9, 2002 Hopefully, the "official" DVD editions of the original trilogy will have branching with the old and SE versions of each film (I'm keeping my fingers crossed). I liked about everything that was added into the SE's except for the "Greedo shoots first" scene which was unnecessary and awkward, and a few of the things added to Jedi (the goofy "jedi rock" musical number). The alternate ending in Jedi was cool from a "trilogy" perspective, but I also enjoyed the original ending (focusing more on the moment, on the victory after that battle). So that's why I'd like to see both. Obviously the improved special effects were great in the SE's (some stuff I wished they would have fixed though... like the bad blue screen effects with the Rancor and Luke, Obi-Wan's saber fizzling out in ANH, and Vader's "white" saber also in ANH in the scene right after he kills Obi-Wan). As far as canon, I've heard the figure quoted several times, that it's the films, novelisations of the films, official screenplays and official radio dramas (in that order). But as to events in the regular and SE editions that contradict one another, I have no idea. They're both "official" and canon I guess. The other non-film sources (film novelisations, screenplays, radio dramas) are canon in that they "happened" everywhere they don't conflict with the onscreen events. As to the EU, it's all official, but the whole "canon" thing is just so that the fans realize what kinds of things will be included in the new films. In other words, Lucas won't have to explain every discrepency between the stuff in the prequels and every single comic, game, novel, cd, etc out there, but he can just say "well I am ignoring everything that isn't official canon when I make these" and as the creator of the franchise, it's his right. As consumers of fantasy, you can like whatever you like. ; ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue15 Posted March 9, 2002 Share Posted March 9, 2002 i noticed in one of the scenes R2 wasn't fixed and was still black and white. hehehe btw, i liked Jedi Rock, it showed Coruscant and the emperor's statue falling over!!!! I can't wait for the DVDs. It also showed a T-16 Skyhopper flying over a city in mos eisely (could it be mos espa, or tatooine, or some other city on tatooine???) I liked the part with the cloud cars and the confetti and stuff. The reason everybody was celebrating is cause they were watching the holotv or whatever it's called (i am not totally awake), and they were probably gambling on who was going to win. heheheheheheheh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cracken Posted March 9, 2002 Share Posted March 9, 2002 The whole Greedo shoots first deal sucked big time. It takes just about every bit of badass out of Han Solo's character. In the SE, he went from being a Clint Eastwood gunslinger to a David Schwimmer geek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_FinnSon Posted March 9, 2002 Share Posted March 9, 2002 In the SE, he went from being a Clint Eastwood gunslinger to a David Schwimmer geek. You don't seem to remember that he stepped over Jabba's tail in ANH SE... I think that makes him "badass" again and also adds a little bit needed humour there. EDIT: BTW, Jedi Rocks is a cool piece of music(now Jabba has much better music taste as well) and RotJ's end celebration really lifts up the end of whole saga(after all those years under the watchfull eye of the Empire, people around the galaxy really has right to party and loosen up) and new celebration music should please those fans who can't stand the Ewok "yub nub" song... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cracken Posted March 10, 2002 Share Posted March 10, 2002 Stepping on something's tail doesn't make you badass. Now, if he'd strangled Jabba with his own tail, he'd be badass to the extreme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubei2501 Posted March 10, 2002 Author Share Posted March 10, 2002 Look, I hate to be the guy to say it, but there was no need for that whole scene with Han and jabba in EP4. Don't get me wrong, its mad cool to see the extra footage, but let's not forget it was "cut" from the original release, and with good reason. The dialogue is clumsy and completely unecessary. 1. It's better for the story if Jabba is a mysterious character whom you hear about first, then meet him two movies later. 2. I know han's a badass, but come on....stepping on the tail of a feared murderous crime boss......Han's not stupid. That's like going up to Don Corleone and kicking him in the shin. 3. Having Boba Fett in that scene is also kind of silly, but forgivable. It just makes Fett look like his whole career revolves around being Jabba's lackey/errand boy, when he is so much more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue15 Posted March 10, 2002 Share Posted March 10, 2002 it's not unnecessary. i never understood why jabba wanted han solo b4 that scene...except that part with greedo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwing Posted March 10, 2002 Share Posted March 10, 2002 You realize that neither are complete canon. Canon will be when Lucas puts the movies together in one overall saga in 2006 after Ep 3 comes out. I kinda agree with the Han/Greedo thing, but I do not agree with the whining about Jabba/Fett/Han scene. I didn't see anything wrong with it, and Han is really reckless. I know han's a badass, but come on....stepping on the tail of a feared murderous crime boss......Han's not stupid. So was running full speed ahead into a bunch of stormtroopers yelling his head off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_FinnSon Posted March 10, 2002 Share Posted March 10, 2002 So was running full speed ahead into a bunch of stormtroopers yelling his head off. ILM actually made Han look even more reckless, when they doubled the amount of Stormies inside the room(and even added Tie Fighter there) where he runs into. Also, I just remembered that ILM also added Dash Rendar's ship into scene where Luke, Obi-Wan and droids arrive at Mos Eysley. I guess you could interpret it so, that SotE is then only EU story that is accepted "officially" as part of the canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue15 Posted March 11, 2002 Share Posted March 11, 2002 ya! SOTE RULES!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwing Posted March 11, 2002 Share Posted March 11, 2002 Well, at least the Outrider's class of ship is canon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue15 Posted March 11, 2002 Share Posted March 11, 2002 They used lots of sote things: ASP droid Security Hoverdroid Swoop Outrider Hovertrain (in cloud city) Hoverplatform (coruscant at end of rotj) And the suprosa appeared in 2 games....xwa and sote. the sote characters are also canon. (not sure bout story as there's 2 versions, book and game) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keiran Halcyon Posted March 11, 2002 Share Posted March 11, 2002 If you had read the Han Solo trilogy (Bantam books) well, Han Solo is Jabba's favorite so he can step in his tail without being blasted. (although he shouldn't but..he was angry, i think that because jabba was showing a lack of faith in him) ANd in the end of the third book han Solo speaks a little with dash rendar, so its the Outrider out there in the movie. And at least SOTE is more canon than other books because it is between the movies, has a videogame(as if it were a movie), soundtrack, comic, toys.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue15 Posted March 11, 2002 Share Posted March 11, 2002 hehe i need to get those books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubei2501 Posted March 11, 2002 Author Share Posted March 11, 2002 Hmm....you guys bring up some good points on the whole Jabba/Han thing..... I still hate the whole Han/Greedo thing though..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherack Nhar Posted March 11, 2002 Share Posted March 11, 2002 Since those books are part of the EU, they're not considered canon so maybe Han was not Jabba's favourite in Lucas' eyes when he stepped on his tail. Also, Rogue15, the two games you mentionned (as well as any other SW games out there) are considered part of the EU. Same story: not considered canon. From my point of view (and of many people here), Han shot first. From Lucas' point of view, Greedo shot first. Whose point of view is most important? As soon as Lucas himself decides to modify a part of the storyline, that is considered canon, that means it's what REALLY happened, like it or not. So yes, Greedo would definitely be a good candidate for Stormtrooper if it wasn't his alien origins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue15 Posted March 12, 2002 Share Posted March 12, 2002 let's just pretend i don't know what the heck canon is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackDragon Posted March 12, 2002 Share Posted March 12, 2002 It's difficult to say now what is canon and what isn't. After all, the planet Coruscant was named by him what wrote the Thrawn trilogy way back when (forgot his name - can't be bothered to look it up) but it's now become canon in the movies. The new trailer for AOTC has a link to http://www.holonetnews.com and that makes mention of people like Garm Bel Iblis who is an EU character. Who knows? Maybe he'll feature in AOTC! I'm not going to get started on the Han/Greedo thing because it's, well, not worth my time. The Han/Jabba scene was extraneous to the plot because it doesn't tell us anything about Han that we didn't already learn from the scene with Greedo. (The dialogue is more or less identical too which shows how pointless a scene it is!) It is a very good way for ILM to show off their digital skills and reintroduce the character, but it wasn't necessary and, IMO, should be relegated to the deleted scenes of the DVD. What no-one seems to have mentioned here though is the worse scene in the whole of the series to date (and yes, I'm including every scene with Jar Jar in too) and that's the pre Battle of Yavin encounter between Luke and Biggs. Not only is it pointless and diverting, it has some of the worse acting that I've seen since, well, since... er... it's the worst acting I've *ever* seen! If you'd never seen the film before, as soon as Luke says the line "I'll tell you all about it when we get back!" you just know that Biggs is going to bite the big one. And it's just not necessary. Do you remember that scene in Hot Shots where the guy is getting into the plane and people keep running up to him saying "quick, make sure you've signed your life insurance certificate before you go" and his girlfriend says "I've just discovered that I'm pregnant!" etc. Star Wars:SE is funnier. Hey ho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.