UK vs US version and Ghoul Engine Question...

[Andrax]

Just a quick question... I was wondering if anyone knew diffinitively if there is a difference in the UK and the US version relating to gore / dismemberment?

 

I have a gentleman at my store who assures me that the UK version is more toned down then the US version. He claims that he can not decapitate anyone (with the UK version). Now I have and have played the US (collectors) edition and have not been able to cut anyones head off either. Arms, legs, a hand here and there. Heck I even cut a droid in half, but never a head.

 

I did not think that there was any difference between these two versions, but if I am wrong I would certianly like to know about it.

 

My understanding (of both versions) are that the game JK II uses the Ghoul II engine from Raven, but that since its Star Wars its not overly gory (like SoF was) and that these events where you seperate someone from their arm or something is a random event and not something that you can decide before hand if it will happen or if it wont.

 

I understand that there is a hack where you can jump into the pak file and edit it to enable to full blown Ghoul II engine, but that if you do that, you wont be able to play online (pure server) because the server will identify the hacked client and refuse a connection. Because of that you would have to have a backup of the unmodified pak file and swap back and forth when your playing alone or online.

 

So, if I can get some feedback that would be great. Thanks!

[StormHammer]

Welcome to the forums. Here...*hands over a chocolate Jedi Medallion*

 

As far as decapitations, etc, in MP, I'm not sure it's possible, or if it is, it might end up unplayable as the server tries to track every severed hand, head or torso.

 

As for SP...yes, I've been able to sever arms and hands without any problems or enhancements - and not infrequently, either.

 

If you want to go properly a slicing-and-dicing in SP (such as severing torsos and heads), however, you can do it simply by opening the console (Shift + tilde) and typing...

 

HelpUsObi 1

g_SaberRealisticCombat 1

 

It works for me.

 

BTW...I'm in the UK, using the UK edition.

 

[Edit - some additions]

[FWB]

I can't give you an official line, but I have the UK version and I have definately cut every body part to pieces, that includes head, arms, legs and torso, so your "gentleman" doesn't have his facts straight. Maybe he should take a gander at the options menu. You can switch dismemberment on/off there and he might have it off.

 

Slightly off-topic, the UK is actually far less censored in areas of sex and violence than the US. Our film boards, for example, allow many scenes removed in US versions, to remain in the UK release. I also can't recall a game here ever being cut or banned, although GTA did get mentioned in the Commons once.

[Andrax]

Thanks for the quick responses thus far

 

I appreciate it!

[Zanshin]

Originally posted by FWB

Slightly off-topic, the UK is actually far less censored in areas of sex and violence than the US. Our film boards, for example, allow many scenes removed in US versions, to remain in the UK release. I also can't recall a game here ever being cut or banned, although GTA did get mentioned in the Commons once.

 

I don't agree with you. In the US, films have ratings, so a director can choose if he wants to edit a film or release it with without any scenes removed. So films can be released completely undedited in the US. I believe in other counties (perhaps in the UK), just for a film to be released publiclly films board may demand some cuts. I would like to know what scenes from what films were cut from the US versions. I have never heard of anything being banned in the US. Sure some libaries or school refuse to carry certain books, but they can still be purchased at the bookstore.

 

Wasn't Clockwork Orange banned in the UK?

[Gothik]

Wasn't Clockwork Orange banned in the UK?

 

No, it has never been banned. Stanley Kubrik withdrew it from circulation in the early 1970s, for reasons known only to him. (Though it is guessed that he wthdrew it because the film was linked to a couple of violent attacks at the time.) It was passed uncut for video/DVD release a couple of years back.

[Minsc]

Clockwork Orange was never banned in the UK; Stanley Kubrick requested that the film no longer be available to the general public, and the UK's laws on intellectual property meant that his request was upheld until his recent death.

 

More to the point; all countries allow or disallow various depictions in films which would be allowed or disallowed in other countries. The USA and UK are no exceptions. However, film cuts are not usually performed by censors, but rather by film producers to gain lower age ratings according to a countries classification rules (yes, the USA is not the only country to have film ratings).

 

Films censored in the USA (Country or State) include The Tin Drum, Last Tango in Paris, Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer, and Titticut Follies.

[Hobnail]

Originally posted by StormHammer

Welcome to the forums. Here...*hands over a chocolate Jedi Medallion*

Woohoo! Chocolate. Damn, mines Carob...blek.

As far as decapitations, etc, in MP, I'm not sure it's possible, or if it is, it might end up unplayable as the server tries to track every severed hand, head or torso.

Decapitation combat is possible online but it requires a server-side command to be entered first. I agree though that things would get laggy with all the bits bounding around

[SPY_jmr1]

hi all new guys! first! *forks over crate of lightsaber(re) candy bar gifts TM* help your self guys.

 

hmm....... dismemberment.......... what a idea hit some one with a lightsaber witch cuts thru anything and remove body parts...... what a idea:rolleyes:

 

i think that this is kinda like a undocumented featere(sp? i know)

kept them on a T rating (in the us at least) i think that this would be very M hear. did not hear that from me though;)

 

oh yes. counsel commands. i bound 3 keys in a row on my keyboard, first was "HelpUsObi 1" 2nd was sabrealisiccombat 1 3rd was "g_dismemberment 3" so i just go 123 and its set.

 

any body know if i can set this in a cfg file for startup?

[Edam]

Yes you can, create a text file in game data\base, caled "autoexec.cfg" with the quotes, and save it as all files, not just text. and then type in those commands, and save

[FWB]

Originally posted by Zanshin

 

I don't agree with you. In the US, films have ratings, so a director can choose if he wants to edit a film or release it with without any scenes removed. So films can be released completely undedited in the US.

 

Sorry, that is plain wrong.

 

I believe in other counties (perhaps in the UK), just for a film to be released publiclly films board may demand some cuts. I would like to know what scenes from what films were cut from the US versions.

 

Someone else has covered this for me.

 

I have never heard of anything being banned in the US. Sure some libaries or school refuse to carry certain books, but they can still be purchased at the bookstore.

 

Then you haven't been paying attention. I am a Brit, yes, but I have lived in the States and it occurred numerous times.

 

Wasn't Clockwork Orange banned in the UK?

 

No, it wasn't.

 

A friend of mine works for the British censor's board and is very well informed of the US system too. What the US does have, in terms of freedom, is information. There the UK looks like a dictatorship.

[Scooter]

Originally posted by Andrax

 

My understanding (of both versions) are that the game JK II uses the Ghoul II engine from Raven, but that since its Star Wars its not overly gory (like SoF was) and that these events where you seperate someone from their arm or something is a random event and not something that you can decide before hand if it will happen or if it wont.

 

 

I might be misinterpreting what you mean there, but JKII uses a modified Quake 3 engine. Maybe they call their modded version Ghoul II but it looks virtually unchanged to me on a functional level - any changes must be in the rendering dept.

[Zanshin]

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by Zanshin

 

 

I don't agree with you. In the US, films have ratings, so a director can choose if he wants to edit a film or release it with without any scenes removed. So films can be released completely undedited in the US.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Originally posted by FWB

 

Sorry, that is plain wrong.

 

 

I don't understand why this is wrong. In the US films can be release with a NC-17 rating. I don't think there is anything that cannot be shown and I have never heard of any mandatory cuts. I know that in that some other countries, like Singapore, there are mandaroty cuts dictated by some body which I think is part of the governement, inorder for the film to be released in theaters there.

 

Some one else posted that parts of certain films were censoredin the US, including parts of the Tin Drum, so I will also look into this further myself and hopefullly learn a thing or two.

 

BTW, I want to thank you guys for creating an informative and stimulating discussion. I've learned a thing or two.

[toolboi]

In the US, films have ratings, so a director can choose if he wants to edit a film or release it with without any scenes removed. So films can be released completely undedited in the US

 

I dont know about the US, but in Canada im haivng a b!tch of a time finding an un-cut version of Requiem for a Dream. I know, an uncut version of this film seems... absurd, but theres a lot of points in the plot that make no sense, and thus I get the feeling that moments were cut (whats with the black chick?).

 

What htis has to do with JK2? Nothing.

 

As for GOUL2, I assumed that it was using a modified version of that (FYI GOUL is not a "game engine" bt a dismemberment engine).

[BCanr2d2]

Films can and are cut and censored to make them fit in within certain ratings. What the USA, UK and Australia show of a movie, with an equivalent rating in each country may be slightly different.

 

From memory it seems as if the US is a lot tighter on their ratings, we seem to have a few scenes that the US misses, perhaps due to the different ages we use for the classification.

Although when it comes to games, we don't follow the same guidelines, so we do actually have games banned because there was no R rating to fit them in.

[Raythe_X]

i rememebr reading somewhere that in the european (german at least) versions of haflife, instead of marines they have robots you attack and they dont "die" they just down once youve "hurt" them...

 

that would suck

[Smoof]

I've noticed that it seems in the UK Violence is more censored where as sex is not. Which is more oposite in the US

[Shifty_Parrot]

Judging from what I've seen of American t.v (which is alot here in australia), i'd say it very toned down compared to some of the british and aussie stuff we get.

 

Just my observation anyways...

[FWB]

I don't understand why this is wrong. In the US films can be release with a NC-17 rating. I don't think there is anything that cannot be shown and I have never heard of any mandatory cuts. I know that in that some other countries, like Singapore, there are mandaroty cuts dictated by some body which I think is part of the governement, inorder for the film to be released in theaters there.

 

You're assuming I'm refering to a general law that may say a specific activity or feature may not be displayed, but is not what I'm saying. Firstly, the film censors in the US are stricter than in the UK. Secondly, no matter what system you live under there will be censorship. I could go into my Marxist rant here, although I'm sure most people don't want to here it, but to put things simply, there are power structures, and those supported by them have their own views and perceptions which they WILL attempt to enforce upon others.

 

To say that a director can do whatever he wishes is... well, as I said before, wrong. Every society has its limits. I recently wrote a paper on US film representations of the black body, and it is incredible have so much of it is white perception, even by the black directors. And no... I'm not black.

[Zanshin]

Originally posted by Shifty_Parrot

Judging from what I've seen of American t.v (which is alot here in australia), i'd say it very toned down compared to some of the british and aussie stuff we get.

 

Just my observation anyways...

 

Actually, this is true, as American public broadcasts do not show much in the way of sex or violence. I don't know who monitors it. American cable television has a lot less restrictions. That is why shows like South Park are not show on regular television in the US.

 

Originally posted by FWB

 

You're assuming I'm refering to a general law that may say a specific activity or feature may not be displayed, but is not what I'm saying. Firstly, the film censors in the US are stricter than in the UK. Secondly, no matter what system you live under there will be censorship. I could go into my Marxist rant here, although I'm sure most people don't want to here it, but to put things simply, there are power structures, and those supported by them have their own views and perceptions which they WILL attempt to enforce upon others.

 

To say that a director can do whatever he wishes is... well, as I said before, wrong. Every society has its limits. I recently wrote a paper on US film representations of the black body, and it is incredible have so much of it is white perception, even by the black directors. And no... I'm not black.

 

It's all just a question of how far freedom of speech really goes. I was more refering to the level of violence in films and other things that are considered offensive. Is the freedom of speech in the US as protected is is claimed to be?

 

Still, I think that in the US anything may be release, but it would be give a NC-17 rating, so I don't see how the censors in the US could be more strict as they only make decisions on the ratings of the film thus almost anything could be allowed, though I may be wrong.

 

So what I would like to know is how the US censors are stricter than those in the UK. I think what it boils down to, is that most film companies in the US elect to remove objectionable parts of their films in order to get a more favorable rating, which will allow a larger audience to see the film. From what I have heard, most film companies consider NC-17 the kiss of death, meaning that they have a very small audeince which makes them unprofitable.

 

Sorry, this has gotten way off topic, but it is still a stimulating subject for me at least, and hopefully some others.

[FWB]

Originally posted by Zanshin

It's all just a question of how far freedom of speech really goes. I was more refering to the level of violence in films and other things that are considered offensive. Is the freedom of speech in the US as protected is is claimed to be?

 

That I can tell you, no, it isn't. I'll ask you to go out into the middle of towna and cry out you hate blacks. You'll get a kicking within 2 mins. I in no way support such thinking, but the point is freedom of speech does not exist. We are allowed to talk providing it is kept within the confinds of what our society believes is acceptable. The laws can say anything they want, but what actually happens is another matter.

 

Still, I think that in the US anything may be release, but it would be give a NC-17 rating, so I don't see how the censors in the US could be more strict as they only make decisions on the ratings of the film thus almost anything could be allowed, though I may be wrong.

 

That's where I'd argue against you. A director can't put ANYTHING he wants into a picture. Apart from the censors, just think about funding. There are always conditions attached to media, no matter what anybody says. Apart from which, by simply classifying a film to a certain age group, you are censoring... you are preventing, or the law is saying, a specific group of people is not allowed to see this. That too is censorship.

 

Just imagine something of an extremely sick nature and picture it getting in, I won't come up with one, because we're all capable of it and we don't need it posted. The censors WILL be down on it in no time.

 

So what I would like to know is how the US censors are stricter than those in the UK. I think what it boils down to, is that most film companies in the US elect to remove objectionable parts of their films in order to get a more favorable rating, which will allow a larger audience to see the film.

 

TV is a good start. The the laws on what maybe be shown on TV before AND after the "watershed" are far harsher than here. It is interesting watching celebrities getting interviewed on late night TV in Britain and when they swear, in a certain manner, they always apologise, believing they aren't allowed to do it. Sex wise Germany is probably one of the most "liberal" countries, yet it is quite harsh when it comes to violence.

 

A note I should make though when discussing the US, is that many of these issues vary from state to state. Firstly there will be specific state laws restricting certain contents, but even more powerful than that, is the communities cry, where by people simply make a massive fuss over it leading to a clamp down. The Bible Belt is a good example here.

 

Sorry, this has gotten way off topic, but it is still a stimulating subject for me at least, and hopefully some others.

 

Likewise.

[SPY_jmr1]

Originally posted by Zanshin

 

Actually, this is true, as American public broadcasts do not show much in the way of sex or violence. I don't know who monitors it. American cable television has a lot less restrictions. That is why shows like South Park are not show on regular television in the US.

 

 

 

italics mine

 

the reason for this is: the FCC, the branch of the goverment wich regulates radio frequencies. the fcc has broadcast rules for what you can and can not put on the airwaves. cable is handled differently especially if you pay extra for it. thats the main reason, why hbo can get away with some of the stuff it puts on:D

 

btw interresting change of topic.

[Xenon812]

To state it is not possible to put anything in a film in the US is wrong.

 

A director CAN put anything in a film he wants here. It will just affect how widespread the release of that film will be. I remember back in the 70s when a film called "Snuff" was released. Sure it had an "X" rating, but people were allowed to see it nonetheless. It is something over here called "Freedom Of Speech" I believe.

 

Granted...one can be arrested by standing up in a crowded theatre and screaming "FIRE!!"

(FIRE!! FIRE!! YAHHHH!!! YAH!!! HEHEH HEHEHEH HEHEHEHEH HEHEHEHEH!!!!!!), but as far as film-making goes, there are no laws that prevent someone from making a film with whatever content they wish. And if it were something so disagreeable that no theatre owner in his right mind would display it, there would always be theatre owners in their left minds (few in number they may be) who would love to show something of that nature, and, if not that, there would always be film afficianados out there who would buy direct through the mail on video.

 

The Motion Picture Association of America, and their misguided attempts to quantify morality do not enter into this argument.

 

Freedom Of Expression has been held by the U.S. Justice system to be "Constitutional" (more or less).

 

That said..I will have to try "Realistic Combat"

[Minsc]

Originally posted by Zanshin

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by Zanshin

 

 

Some one else posted that parts of certain films were censoredin the US, including parts of the Tin Drum, so I will also look into this further myself and hopefullly learn a thing or two.

 

Well to be honest, The Tin Drum wasn't actually censored in the USA, it was banned in Louisiana; and as far as I know only there.

 

In a vain attempt to bring this back on topic......

I am quite happy for JK2 to be bloodless, not because I am against blood in "video games" (I am not) but because the Star Wars films are on the whole without blood (except for the occasional lump of Wumpa).

 

Did you know that Indianapolis banned children under a certain age from going within 10 feet of a violent video game?

This was later repealled for being unconstitutional.

[FWB]

Originally posted by Xenon812

To state it is not possible to put anything in a film in the US is wrong.

 

You're missing the point. Laws can state one thing, but what actually happens is another. Film makers CAN'T put anything they want into a film (and that's not even going into issues of the social construction and funding of the educational institutions of filmakers, thus playing a part in what the filmaker "decides" to film anyway) and expect it to be released without questions (if you're going to argue that they can simply make any film they want, then you're being pedantic. I can get my video camera out and film anything too, but it doesn't mean everyone is going to be able to see it). However, they won't receiving funding for a start and they are not assured of a public release. It has already been pointed out by one individual that a number of films were cut in the US.

 

If you think the law is the be all and end all then you need to experience more.

 

And if it were something so disagreeable that no theatre owner in his right mind would display it, there would always be theatre owners in their left minds (few in number they may be) who would love to show something of that nature, and, if not that, there would always be film afficianados out there who would buy direct through the mail on video.

 

But the film has been censored. Full stop. Unless you have access to these specific threatres you are not going to be able see it.

 

The Motion Picture Association of America, and their misguided attempts to quantify morality do not enter into this argument.

 

<cough><cough> You're not serious are you? Of course they play a part. Any body will have an influence. Apart from which, of course morality plays a part. It is no coincidence that 99% of Hollywood films have a "happy ending".

 

Freedom Of Expression has been held by the U.S. Justice system to be "Constitutional" (more or less).

 

Except it doesn't exist. One thing that frustrated me while living in the US was the value that so many people attached to these "words" and constitutions" when they had little appreciation that for many they don't apply. I'll say it again, the "law" may say one thing, but what actually happens is another.