Lord Naga Sadow Posted April 20, 2002 Share Posted April 20, 2002 hmmm some of your comments are quite true, vader doesn't have that "bulky" or "buff" feel if you know what i mean. but i really like the helmet it is by far DA bESSSSTTTT~! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithlord-II Posted April 20, 2002 Author Share Posted April 20, 2002 hey absath, definitely not taken harshly, but taken to task i appreciate any and all constructive criticism and your points are all things i did notice but could not quite place my finger on what was wrong. the shoulders should now look like they have more mass the legs did need modifying, i was figuring on the boots being bulky so they would be a bit more squared off but it does improve the look of the model the arms were definitely in need of fixing - done, take a look and see if anything looks out of place now and the codpiece was a bit long too, it came from modifying the waist/belt level but not the hips/codpiece http://www.geocities.com/sithlordiii2001/vader_body8.txt http://www.geocities.com/sithlordiii2001/vader_body7.txt http://www.geocities.com/sithlordiii2001/vader_body6.txt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Naga Sadow Posted April 20, 2002 Share Posted April 20, 2002 definite improvement in the bulky feel but while looking at the 3rd link picture, the face part is kinda................... outward 2 much , if u know what i mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{xg}darthVADER Posted April 20, 2002 Share Posted April 20, 2002 but i think the head's too small Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabowan Posted April 20, 2002 Share Posted April 20, 2002 Hmmm...good points, absath. After comparing the model and a full costume photo, the legs are definitely WAY too long still. Also, I believe the helmet is still just a wee bit small. In the following comparison pic, you'll notice the chest box is about the same size in both pictures, however, the head is smaller on your model than in the real photo, and your model is about two feet taller than the real vader because of the legs. Check it out! Also, you can't really tell in this pic, and I'm not sure if it's present in your model or not, but Vader's helmet dome is not a straight line across the bottom...that is to say, it has a curvature as opposed to being flat. EDIT: Hmm...after looking at the mode side by side with a real Vader photo, I think the metallic areas on the helmet/facemask, such as the nose and the two "tusks" need to be shinier and more silver in color. We're a demanding bunch, aren't we? Great work nonetheless. Keep it up, sithlord! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absath Posted April 20, 2002 Share Posted April 20, 2002 yeah you remedied most of the points i made, except for the head. it could still stand to be larger. spaceballs make dark helmet's helmet so large as a parody of how big darth's was. right now that Vader is over"7 heads" tall. that tells you that the head is too small (unless you purposely wanted a small head, which in this case you dont) you want to aim at around 5-6 heads tall. a couple things do stand out now that i see the helmet from different angles...the dome of the head is still a bit too tall. i think you could bring it down by a third, or maybe even as much as half... i was going to mention something about the face...something along the lines of what {xg}darthVADER said....but i think ill wait and see what you do with the top of the head. the wierd look of the faceplate may be a direct result of its combination with the too-tall head. i think the head makes the face look indented a bit. so my suggestion is this: lower the hight on the dome (which will make the head even smaller) then make the whole head larger...id say you could even try twice its current size, and see how that looks. make the head bigger until vader's body, from neck to tow is five times the height of the head. then post and ill take a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabowan Posted April 20, 2002 Share Posted April 20, 2002 Here's another good comparison shot...Absath, I think you may be right about the helmet/dome. Vader did have a MASSIVE helmet. A figure thrown around about the helmet is that the dome is 12" tall...now look at this shot...that's a big frickin mellon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Nash Posted April 20, 2002 Share Posted April 20, 2002 Yeah, I notice that now too. Your helmut looks kinda like Vader ate a lemon and didn't like it. Not dissing the skin or anything, but I just noticed that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Nash Posted April 20, 2002 Share Posted April 20, 2002 BTW, Thank you for taking criticizm well. If you didn't, then we'd have a real problem here. Good work. =) You should take to Absath about sending in your model to Raven so they can work on it with the SDK as well to test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithlord-II Posted April 20, 2002 Author Share Posted April 20, 2002 i have no problem with criticism so long as it is meant to help, which all of this is. It isn't like you guys are just saying "THIS MODEL SUCKS!!!" or otherwise and you're right, the nose does look quite a bit punched in it will be fixed of course, and the dome to the helmet does need to have more arch to it, a steeper slope at the front, and a longer flange to the back of the helmet. the chest armor needs to be higher up, much closer to the shoulder line than the stomach (gonna have to just modify the texture for that one) and i'm gonna use shaders as well for lights on vader's chestbox and belt boxes. The helmet and armor will look alot better with shaders for faked reflections so that they appear lighter, shinier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longshanks Posted April 20, 2002 Share Posted April 20, 2002 Judging by sabowan`s photo comparison,i think the model needs major restructuring.I know your aware of this.But when you look at the difference between the two images,there very different indeed. I think the legs need to be shortened.. the head enlarged..intact totally reshaped.. more bulk added.. I know this is`nt new news to ya sithlord...im just agreeing with the perfectly formed comments sabowan has made. Funny thing is until a actually saw a real photo of vader,i thought your model was bang on correct....strange how the mind can play tricks like that. keep it up mate....very nice work all the same.(well beyond my lame skills) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabowan Posted April 20, 2002 Share Posted April 20, 2002 Good to hear, sithlord, good to hear....I still think this model is already kickass, but with your apparent zeal for perfecting it and listening to everyone's input, I KNOW you're going to nail it! Keep up the good work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Draugmahl Posted April 20, 2002 Share Posted April 20, 2002 I agree that the model is much improved in the last few shots. The main things I can see personally 1) The mouth "vent" or whatever is angled the wrong way 2) The dome of the helmet comes to a close to early if you follow. It shouldn't become quite as shaped to his head before it eventually fans out at the bottom. 3) The tip of the "fan" appears to line up roughly with the bottom tip of the mouth vent thing. (That's technology speak there) and appears to fan out slight further from the head then it does on the model currently. I am the LAST person to criticize a model for it's own sake. I tried to make a model for heretic 2 once and uh.....nevermind! Obviously recreating as well known a character as this makes it harder as everything has to be as perfect as possible, but I give you much props for even doing it at all, over and above from the constant improvement of the model and taking the criiticisms thus far given (sometimes in a less than positive fashion) and using them to your advantage. I look forward to this model when it is done and imagine that with the work you're putting into it, it should be very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Draugmahl Posted April 20, 2002 Share Posted April 20, 2002 Ack, not to be a pest but here's some more schtuff The "brow" of the helmet portion above the face is flat on the model and should be angled out toward the face The helmet's actual dome apears to be angled slightly back as opposed to straight up as it is on the model... The piece of armor the comes down to his chest from underneath of the cloak appears to be rather flat and straight compared to the contoured piece on the model (this doesn't look bad by any means, just different than the actual) Sorry, I feel like such a critic but if it helps at all.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithlord-II Posted April 20, 2002 Author Share Posted April 20, 2002 excellent posts guys can't work on the model right now but i will definitely go about these changes when i get home (at work now...) i just gotta get 3d studio on the systems here.. don't think the boss would like that tho man, i really want to go do that stuff now from that vader pic sabo the legs do look a bit long but consider the pose of vader, he is stepping forward so his knee is bent, the legs are a bit long but perhaps not too out of wack and you are right, the nose does need to be shinier but the sensors ('tusks') aren't even on the model yet, they'll just be a simple box with a shiny silver texture applied the dome of the helmet does need to be much wider and i will ad onto the taper of the helm itself. The facemask may be in need of a restructuring since i have found a few parts aside from what is mentioned that need reworking. The texture is still good and may be used, but the model should be retouched Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Draugmahl Posted April 20, 2002 Share Posted April 20, 2002 Dude, you crush! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonk-raider Posted April 20, 2002 Share Posted April 20, 2002 i've noticed that his chest guard isnt attached to the chest but laying over it.. can you fix this on the model you're making?? im looking at the comparison shot with vader with the purplr background and your work..Looks tottaly awsome..also someone should be working on vaders hilt : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonk-raider Posted April 20, 2002 Share Posted April 20, 2002 hey...what about the cape...Is that gonna be a ball buster to make??? a cape that didnt attach to em like a cardboard cut out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugm@n Posted April 20, 2002 Share Posted April 20, 2002 Well, I'm new to the forums, but in this case I felt that this model should be the best it can be, so I decided to sign up and add my two cents. I believe that the head on your model is sitting too far back upon his shoulders, making his head seem smaller than it actually is. The chin under his mouth vent is also larger by comparison. And my final bit of constructive criticism is that the helmet flair actually angles up as it gets closer to the face, while your model has a straight flair all the way around. I should interrupt this to say that the only reason I signed up is to comment on this model, because it has the potential to be impeccable. As for the chest armor, you may notice on the photo that it does not come all the way down to the control panel on his chest, but that is just nit picking. The eyebrow ridge on his helmet also comes out a little farther in the picture than it does on your model. Finally, the neck on the vader picture seems to slant slightly backward, whil yours does just the opposite. If you fix those minor problems, then the head will be almost photo realistic. Keep up the excellent work! Ill keep a sharp eye on this thread and offer any help I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithlord-II Posted April 20, 2002 Author Share Posted April 20, 2002 as for the cape i don't know - honestly if it can't be made to look good i don't think i should add it onto the model i'd really like to be able to do it along with the inner cloak but if it can only be added as filler or looking like its a 'cardboard cutout' i think it would look like ****e... might look good in stills but if it can't be animated, whats the point, right? oh well it will all have to just come about when the GDK/SDK are released, maybe with the animation routines i can add a few bones to the model and set up some custom anims for it, i don't want it to take up too much mem tho... and i had the armor draped over the torso for poly reasons i don't think it would add too many to have it raised out though, i'll put that in tonite when i get home i think by tomorrow the model will look like night and day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodRiot Posted April 20, 2002 Share Posted April 20, 2002 SithLord... show us a full body side shot. The side view is very important for cuz of the posture. It's shows a lot of stuff you cant really pic up in front view. One other thing... about the arms... the look great... but where the arms connect to the torso, it looks a bit like those toy arms that only go forward and backward. You if you broaden a bit below the arms and connect the arm vertexes to the torso. And try to pull the amrs inwards just a lil bit. Vader also needs a neck... It looks like is lower jaw connects to the shoulders. The head needs to be bigger. And the top helmet needs to be a bit wider as well. Well I'm running a bit late when im writing this so if i seem a bit insensitive about my remarks, I'm sorry about that. Just giving ya a few sugestions. Gotta go now. Try out what i sugested. Just see if it looks better and show it to us please. C ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acer Posted April 20, 2002 Share Posted April 20, 2002 Ok Sithlord i wanna really help you and because im a Star Wars freak and Vader is my favorite character i can really describe him the way he is meant to be described, hehe ok, first Vaders helmet should be more round and a bit smaller in size, but the face part of the mask should stick out much much more. Vader is a "man" of great power and he is not an agile man hence he should prefer walking if you meet him as a bot, he should have a very high taunt rate, in the movies he constantly talks to his targets always with a calm voice. Because of his size and the fact that he is not agile, his saber defensis should be much better than any character in the game, even better than dessans. He should use a Strong style of saber teqnique which i allready have said. I think that Vader should not be able to jump at all, instead he should float in the air, like in the movies. If you manage to hit him with a saber attack he should use his impressive most impressive taunt and if you hit him with an almost lethal hit he should say obi wan has taught you well, would be cool if he only said this if he met luke. Vader is not the one to start a saber attack and he should prefer to defend himself and deflect the attackers saber move and cause a fall of balance which he then uses to counterattack and very elegantly kill his oponent, he should therefore never attack, only stand still very calmly and force his opponent to make a misstake. This is hard to make without the SDK but would be very very cool, because the thing that really bugged me whit Desann was that he was very agile and he ran across the room and he jumped and stuff like that, a jedi master hardly jumps, he stands still and at the exact moment he attacks his opponent. Thats all I can think of right now, but I will defineatelly give you more ideas, I appologise for my bad grammar and I hope you understand this. Keep up the good work!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Vicious Posted April 21, 2002 Share Posted April 21, 2002 Sithlord II, I must commend you for your great attitude and willingness to take criticism to make your work better. It is a hard thing for most people to do. I really like what you have done and with that attitude and skill you will be working at a game developer's studio in no time. I think anyone who wants to be good at making skins etc. should follow this thread. You have set the benchmark for how someone should approach making a good skin or mod. As a skin & modeling newbie myself I find what you have done to be a good path to follow. Keep it up and hats off to you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L2.0 Posted April 21, 2002 Share Posted April 21, 2002 Originally posted by sithlord-II as for the cape i don't know - honestly if it can't be made to look good i don't think i should add it onto the model i'd really like to be able to do it along with the inner cloak but if it can only be added as filler or looking like its a 'cardboard cutout' i think it would look like **** You know after the SDK comes out, why not model a cape as seperate, and then give it it's own AI? That way it would react in a more realistic way when worn than a plain "cloak-grafted-to-the-back-of-model" type of cape... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lime-Light Posted April 21, 2002 Share Posted April 21, 2002 The cape would have to be part of the model......else it wouldnt be part of the model, geddit? And by AI I assume you mean animations, and he already siad he may do that. SDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDKSDK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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