ArtifeX Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 Originally posted by Skarfays If you think about it ASC and SC are practically the same except they have something against eachother. As a result they try to make themselves look like total opposites. Um, anyone else understand what this guy said? If so, explain it to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtifeX Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 Originally posted by Soul-Burn -SC- is about not interupting while people are dueling. It's nothing about strategies AT ALL. I never interrupt people who are duelling. I can't. They're invulnerable to outside damage. *ASC* is just about blowing the crap out of people standing around watching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 I don't put any tags next to my name. My philosophy is definitely more ASC in a sense that (i) I believe people are free to play their own style in any FFA or Team-FFA and (ii) Vote-kicking people off because they have better scores than you is totally lame. Let me describe how I play. (1) I only play Team_FFA now adays because I have more of a purpose. It's not how many points you have but how many points your team has. (2) I only use Light Side powers and use the saber about 75% of the time. But I switch to guns if I am outnumbered and getting ganged up by 3 or more saber only guys or 2 or more guns only guys. That's because I do care about my team score and there is no reason to go into a suicide situation and hurt my team. (3) I have never initiated a vote kick. Even when some guy is team killing his own guys in a Team_FFA. I just switch to the other team and kept going after that guy. With guns / saber / force ...everything. (4) I will use any force power to counter the other guy's use of force powers. I find it really funny when some guys keep complaining that I push them off in NS Streets level when he kept gripping and throwing people off. He did that to me one time. And from that time on, I kept going absorb and push against him. After he got killed like 3 times after unsuccessfully trying to grip me, he started complaining. (5) And yes I find it very annoying when people want to bow and want to use saber only without force powers in a Team FFA because I am trying to help my team win. And I am not going to waste my time like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul-Burn Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 Spidey, nothing from what you wrote condradicts -SC- ArtifeX, in "dueling" I mean when there are 2 people who are AWAY from the main combat area who just fight it out 1on1, without the "official" duel system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 Except for the calling for vote-kicks. I don't believe in calling for votes even if some person is throwing grenades and rockets into the middle of a duel. That's their right. Plus investing some of your points in Force Pull will do wonders against those types of players. That is my only beef with your SC code. No kick votes period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul-Burn Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 Dude... how many times should I say this... KICK VOTES ARE ONLY WHEN IT'S ON A PRIVATE/RULES-ENABLED SERVER OR WHEN EVERYONE WANTS THAT PERSON OUT (the latter has nothing to do with the code tho) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrainStorm Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 Why is it everyones right to do whatever they want, but if a group of people want to band together to do what they want as a group; then it becomes a problem. I still don't get it. You have these so-called "rights" as individuals, but a group of like-minded people have no rights whatsoever when acting in concert?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 Isn't that called mob rule? If a group of like minded individuals decide to go after let's say a smaller group of individuals just because they think alike in society, what kind of society do you have? Now if those like minded group decides to have their own server, you can do whatever you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teir Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 Im the neu to all this. If the other guy or girl wanna bow and all that i usely let them, dosnt matter to me. I just taunt my Haha at them when they die in honor:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3mmus Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 Originally posted by Soul-Burn Dude... how many times should I say this... KICK VOTES ARE ONLY WHEN IT'S ON A PRIVATE/RULES-ENABLED SERVER OR WHEN EVERYONE WANTS THAT PERSON OUT (the latter has nothing to do with the code tho) Well why don't you tell that to your -SC- monkey boys who gang up and abuse kickvotes by kicking off people without the -SC- tag. I get kicked sometimes on a public rules-enabled server because there are a majority of -SC- players and i don't carry that tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtifeX Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 Originally posted by Soul-Burn Dude... how many times should I say this... KICK VOTES ARE ONLY WHEN IT'S ON A PRIVATE/RULES-ENABLED SERVER OR WHEN EVERYONE WANTS THAT PERSON OUT (the latter has nothing to do with the code tho) bah. kicking is pure lameness no matter what the circumstances. it's the last resort of an unskilled player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul-Burn Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 Originally posted by R3mmus Well why don't you tell that to your -SC- monkey boys who gang up and abuse kickvotes by kicking off people without the -SC- tag. I get kicked sometimes on a public rules-enabled server because there are a majority of -SC- players and i don't carry that tag. No one is my monkey boys. It's not like I control them. They are just lame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Untamed Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 kicking is pure lameness no matter what the circumstances. it's the last resort of an unskilled player. The ASC stands for one thing only: letting people play the way they want. /me thinks sumbody needs to rethink their ethics vote kicking is well with in the rules of jk2 multiplayer but yet u say ppl shouldnt do it. Hmmmmm clever. Im with sc all the way. I think that there are things that cant be defined in game rules such as honour and teamplay and no amount of software is ever going to change that. These people are just saying we like it this way if u dont then thats fine but dont expect me to like u or duel u etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xenothrope Posted May 1, 2002 Share Posted May 1, 2002 hello all ive been reading these forums for a while now, and this whole SC vs. ASC thing made me want to post its pretty clear how it is all set up, SC seeks to uphold the "light" side of the force and its perceptions on combat whereas the ASC holds more true to the "dark" side of the force and its ideals. personally i see nothing wrong with this for role players: the force is meant to be ballanced, therefore a evil must always exist (note how the jedi council almost never seeks out to kill those who pursue the darkside, they let them exist and come to them {funny how the ASC seems to have taken this ideal yet they are supposed to be the dark side}) for hard core gamers: well we have our own code, its simple and has one rule, play the best you can, as long as its fun. after all, games are meant to be fun, if you arnt having fun (even for 2 seconds) EXIT THE GAME. you dont need to torture youself bc your getting flamed, spamed, etc. just turn off the game, walk outside get some fresh air, come back and play something else. (if you were a true gamer you would know that already ) for -SC-'ers: im rather confused as to your stance (light or dark) your words attempt to protect the weak and kill the evil, but the light side always trys to show the error of the ways of the dark and help them, not hunt them down and ban them, say to the would be offender "hey dont fight them, their dueling, fight me instead" its much more mature instead of "sic' em boys!" or some such attitude for *ASC*'ers: i respect you guys, i really do, you make many good points (dueling should be in duel rooms not FFA {hence the game description}) and i do belive that your cause as it is being stated now (win anyway you can) has a point and a purpouse, to strive to be the best, heck your anti-saber-code website has some awesome strategy and tactics in it. be evil, do what it takes, but please keep it in the realm of the game (no impersonating others and such) in conclusion, i see some cool things coming from these sides being set, this game deserved a light and dark side and now it has it. personally ill stay neuteral (sp?) and fight my way, ill bow if someone bows to me and ill fight the best i can using my tools at hand. i wont interupt duels, but as soon as its over ill kill the weakend winner, no questions asked. If i want to duel ill go to a duel server and wait in line. thats is all xeno -you are not your post count- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracofyre Posted May 1, 2002 Share Posted May 1, 2002 I've been tracking the ASC, SC debates/flamewars and have learned two things. #1 The SC are nothing more pompous jerks looking to get flamed. #2 The ASC just wanna have fun. I swear you SC guys really need to get a life. It's a freaking game. If your that freaking stupid as to duel in the middle of a free-for-all then you really deserve the lemming award. You guys are in the middle of a huge fight and you expect to be left alone while you duel? Come on, when I see crap like that all I see are couple of guys with flashing neon signs over there heads that say "SHOOT ME." You guys really need to take your dueling crap to the duel servers. What a concept! Dueling on the duel servers. Then you guys get pissed off because you got nuked in mid duel on said ffa server. If you don't like it YOU guys can leave, and leave the ffa stuff to the us guys who enjoy using guns *gasp* or sabers AND guns (like me). So I'm probably going to put the nice little ASC tag in front of my name and support the ongoing fight to just let everyone have fun. P.S. Hey ArtifeX nice job with the ASC site. Can't wait for you to finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtifeX Posted May 2, 2002 Share Posted May 2, 2002 I'm going to be putting up a more serious and formal post of the Anti-Saberist Code on the website soon. A lot of people new to the *ASC* concept have been asking about it, so I'm going to clarify. I'll post the old one as well but with a caveat about its comedic roots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenroth Posted May 2, 2002 Share Posted May 2, 2002 I suppose I fall into a more of a -sc- tag person my self though I do not bear such a tag, and have no intention of kick voteing people that play simply to WIN and do whatever it takes to do so. Yes I do belive in fighting honerably, yes I will bow, I wont run up to two people fighting weather in challange mode or not, I may wait with my lightsaber down and challange the winner of there fight but otherwise I wont interfere. On FFA servers most of the time I will simply wait around with my saber unlit and attempt to duel/challange people, if they run and attempt to attack me with my saber unlit ill generally push them back a time or two and if they continue ill fight and kill them or be killed. Generally I only wish to challange people, if they refuse I leave them be, of course im not intrested in winning the game via frag count. I have done that both on duel and FFA servers and while it can be fun to mow down and push people off ledges and kill and kill, it bores me compared to good duels/challanges. Do my ethics cost me? Yes ive been DFA'ed while bowing to people, ive been cut down from behind right after comeing out of a challange, and of course ive been pushed/grasped and thrown off levels while watching a challange or waiting in line to challange someone. Do these things bother me? Yes they do, do I generally whine about them or try an kick people for doing them? No, I learn there names and treat them as enemies from that point out. If I see Josh heading towards the dueling platform in bespin where he has been doing nothing but trying to push/grasp people waiting to duel there on FFA servers I kill him or try to, no challange issued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempest8008 Posted May 2, 2002 Share Posted May 2, 2002 Show me where on a duel server I can run around myself, practicing my own moves, and get to stop and watch others fighting in radically different locations? And get a chance to fight when and where I want to? If you're just in a FFA game to rack up kills, find a server where that is happening. If you come into a FFA where there are a bunch of people walking around watching others fight, you can pick a fight, but if they don't want you there, they have the right to kick you if you aren't playing "their" game....UNLESS it's a public server. If it's Public, it means anything goes that the admin has not restricted. It's a chance you take....but I submit this to the ASC crowd....if you are bowed to, what is the harm in bowing back before you whip out your Flechette Cannon and blow them away? BOWING COSTS YOU NOTHING. Not health, not shields, not force. You may consider it lame, you may choose NOT to bow, but if you leap on someone while they are bowing, real life or game, that's dishonourable. Don't whine if you do that and then get picked on by the others in the game, you're obviously on the wrong server. Just wait a second, fire up your saber or arm yourself accordingly, wait until they stand, and THEN attack. I submit this to the SC crowd. There is NOTHING in the game that you cannot do that you SHOULD not do. Every gun, force power, saber move, and power up are there to be used in as many creative and innovative ways as possible. If YOU have chosen a more 'honourable' way to fight, that is your choice. The others on the server may or may not agree with you. Unless you know your opponent shares the same sense of honour, don't bow, and expect them to use everything at their disposal to win. Otherwise, SC and ASC alike....keep to servers where the games are set the way you like to play them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLG-Jaymz Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 Time for my few cents worth, I guess. I consider myself an -SC-'er. I usually play on Australian servers under the nick Jacul Grmil -SC-. While I can't say I follow each and every rule outlined in the first -SC- post, I do take the time and trouble to ensure that I never <i>break</i> them, or break the principle it's based upon. To me, I sum up the entirety of the -SC- ideal as two things: honour and respect. I dig both these two ideals purely because I came from the multiplayer world of Quake 1... then Quake II.. then Quake III. I'd just about given up on playing any form of online FPS, from playing all the Quake games (and many other DM games like them), where only the best ******* wins. Seriously... if you play a game of Quakeworld online nowadays and actually win a match, it's because you just played like a complete and utter prick, and have basically rendered the worth of your opponents as nothing more than walking additions to your fragcount. Now.. everyone's free to think like that and behave like that, but after 6 long years of that, I've grown really goddamn tired of it. I haven't run across any of the problems I've heard about on here.. mostly due to the fact that on the Australian servers I play on, I only know of two other people who use the -SC- tag. I haven't met any *ASC*'ers yet, either. I've seen a fair amount of callvoting and such, but personally speaking, I generally abstain against voting for someone to get kicked or not, unless the annoyance is an extreme one (which, so far, I haven't come across yet). Out of the two SC'ers I've met, I do know that at least one of them feels the same way I do (the other one, I haven't had nearly as much chance to talk to). I pay attention to the server I'm about to join. If I join a server with all weapons allowed, it's because I choose to. If I join a Jedi Master skill server with no force restrictions, it's because I choose to. Whilst playing, I generally lump all the people on the server in three categories in my mind.. honourable, suspect, and dishonourable. Honourable people, I let my guard down. Suspect people, I'm wary of. Dishonourable people... there's no holds barred. I tend to refrain from using things which I consider "cheap", but if someone needs to be taught a lesson.. well.. Basically... as far as the lame crap like alt-fire repeaters, and the @$$fighting (backstabs) goes, I'll either attempt to find some way to counter it, or I'll do my best to ensure their efforts aren't rewarded. I don't complain publically (although I might swear a lot under my breath ), and I sure as hell don't callvote to kick them. I also won't vote for or against kicking on a server, either. I dunno who the hell you guy's have been playing, but not all -SC-'ers want a remake of Nazi germany, y'know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardsharp Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 This all seems to be getting a shade out of control. I mean, really chaps Imagine there`s no kicking It isn`t hard to do No backstabbing either I`ll just bow to you Imagine all the flamers Living life in peace Yo-ou may say I`m a Noob/Lamer/Lightning Whore/ASC But I`m not the only one I hope one day you`ll join us And shoot the **** out of every one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agen Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 I abide by my own rules- 1. Be friendly 2. Don't waste time on stupid things liek bowing, get on with the game. 3. Have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Fisher Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 Met too, execpt when the server say differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Having "honor codes" made much more sense in Jedi Knight. Why? Because the game itself was not setup to allow the server that much control over say a "dueling" environment. The best one could do would be to setup a 2 player server on a saber only level and then go from there. Specialized mods had to be made before such a thing could be feasible like we have gotten spoiled by in Jedi Outcast. In JK2, it is now possible to setup a Dueling, Saber Only, Force Limited Server. A "lightsaber challenge" can be had during a FFA if the server chooses to allow it. All of this power did come at a price... people abusing the "vote" system to rid the server of players that BEAT THEM TOO OFTEN, resorting to petty revenge for people who were too good or used tactics they didn't know how to counter. The idea of players "invading" public servers and forcing the people there to conform to their whims (ie: mob rule) is pretty lame. Which is why if I run I server, I'd rather be there, playing as a regular player (the only thing I would ever do differently is change the settings when I wanted, or expel a player who was being a total nuisance and ruining it for everyone else, like constantly hiding with the flag during CTF or constantly blowing away their teammates or chat spamming for example), and not worry about the voting. If you use the Lightsaber Challenge, you can't expect it to work well if you choose to use it in the very middle of the battlefield where rockets are flying and other players are trying to play the game normally. You can't expect to stand around with your saber off chatting and NOT get hit on occasion. In this respect, I am in full agreement with Artifex (and have said so in the past). Ultimately, these players who wish to role play or limit gameplay (for whatever reason) are free to do so, but they can't (and shouldn't try) to force others to do so. I found his comments funny and refreshing, in the face of what seemed like a downward trend toward "codes of honor" and other such nonesense being the only right way in JK2. To say nothing of the illogic that the way they play is somehow more "star warsy" (and therefore more legitimate way to have fun) than the way others play. ; ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion275 Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 I play by rules, just not the stupid ones, its just a game, your suppose to have fun, all that SC or ASC stuff doesnt make sense to me, all you have to do is play the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|GG|Carl Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 I guess I'm quite neutral... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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